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From: PetersJV@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:59:29 EDT
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	Content preview:  About... (my talk)
	[[Wikipedia:NAME#Controversial_name]]s states that "allegation"
	''should
	be avoided in a title unless the article concerns charges in a legal
	case or accusations of illegality under civil, criminal or international
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	your examples [[Allegations of Russian influence operations in
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	--[[User:Martintg|Martintg]] ([[User talk:Martintg|talk]]) 19:12, 17
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Subject: [WPM] More re Offliner....
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	Content preview:  About... (my talk)
	[[Wikipedia:NAME#Controversial_name]]s states that "allegation" ''should
	be avoided in a title unless the article concerns charges in a legal
	case or accusations of illegality under civil, criminal or international
	law which have not yet been proven in a court of law''. In the case of
	your examples [[Allegations of Russian influence operations in Estonia]]
	and [[Allegations of internet operations by Russian secret police]]
	would not be valid since these activities are necessarily illegal.
	--[[User:Martintg|Martintg]] ([[User talk:Martintg|talk]]) 19:12, 17
	June 2009 (UTC) [...] 
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About... (my talk)

[[Wikipedia:NAME#Controversial_name]]s states that "allegation" ''should  
be avoided in a title unless the article concerns charges in a legal case or  
accusations of illegality under civil, criminal or international law which  
have not yet been proven in a court of law''. In the case of your examples  
[[Allegations of Russian influence operations in Estonia]] and 
[[Allegations  of internet operations by Russian secret police]] would not be valid 
since  these activities are necessarily illegal. --[[User:Martintg|Martintg]] 
([[User  talk:Martintg|talk]]) 19:12, 17 June 2009 (UTC) 

I think this needs to be more clearly stated. It can be that these  
operations are quite legal (or at least not expressly prohibited) under Russian  
domestic law, particularly as they would be all government sanctioned. It's 
not  the legality thereof that's the issue, Offliner's query is whether the 
acts  themselves have ever even been committed. So, unless we have some  
individual convicted in Estonia or elsewhere conducting these operations,  
"Allegations of" may have to stand. "Former officials" et al. can be painted as  
hving an axe to grind.
 
(And if so, it should at this point be a "on further thought" from  
Martin--who appears to be the major focus of agitation these days).
 
/Peters
 
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<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16825" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
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face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>
<DIV>About... (my talk)</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>[[Wikipedia:NAME#Controversial_name]]s states that "allegation" ''s=
hould 
  be avoided in a title unless the article concerns charges in a legal cas=
e or 
  accusations of illegality under civil, criminal or international law whi=
ch 
  have not yet been proven in a court of law''. In the case of your exampl=
es 
  [[Allegations of Russian influence operations in Estonia]] and [[Allegat=
ions 
  of internet operations by Russian secret police]] would not be valid sin=
ce 
  these activities are necessarily illegal. --[[User:Martintg|Martintg]]=
 ([[User 
  talk:Martintg|talk]]) 19:12, 17 June 2009 (UTC) </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>I think this needs to be more clearly stated. It can be that these 
operations are quite legal (or at least not expressly prohibited) under Ru=
ssian 
domestic law, particularly as they would be all government sanctioned. It'=
s not 
the legality thereof that's the issue, Offliner's query is <EM>whether the=
 acts 
themselves have ever even been committed</EM>. So, unless we have some 
individual convicted in Estonia or elsewhere conducting these operations,=
 
"Allegations of" may have to stand. "Former officials" et al. can be paint=
ed as 
hving an axe to grind.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>(And if so, it should at this point be a "on further thought" from 
Martin--who appears to be the major focus of agitation these days).</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>/Peters</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT><DIV CLASS=3D"aol_ad_footer" ID=3D"9d478f2b60b6f70=
fcc6b1db38a832e39"><br/><font style=3D"color:black;font:normal 10pt arial,=
san-serif;"> <hr style=3D"margin-top:10px"/><A HREF=3Dhttp://pr.atwola.com=
/promoclk/100126575x1222865043x1201494942/aol?redir=3Dhttp:%2F%2Fad.double=
click.net%2Fclk%3B215692145%3B38015538%3Bh>Dell Days of Deals! June 15-24=
 - A New Deal Everyday!</A></font></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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