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Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:25:59 +0200
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From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview: By their very nature population transfer is forced as
	per international law it is decided by political regime upon a body of
	people. So really population transfer is per definition "forced". ">
	And
	it is clear that not the locals of other ethnic groups were the
	planners > of these forced movements. " [...] 
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Subject: Re: [WPM] Renaming to population transfer
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	Content preview:  By their very nature population transfer is forced as
	per international law it is decided by political regime upon a body of
	people. So really population transfer is per definition "forced". "> And
	it is clear that not the locals of other ethnic groups were the planners
	> of these forced movements. " [...] 
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By their very nature population transfer is forced as per
international law it is decided by political regime upon a body of
people.
So really population transfer is per definition "forced".

"> And it is clear that not the locals of other ethnic groups were the plan=
ners
> of these forced movements. "

Actually those movements were planned (of course in various different
ways) from 1939 after German minority helped Nazi Germany invade
Czechoslovakia and Poland and patricipated in massacres.

I think the problem is that people use words like expulsions,
population transfer from common language. In international law those
terms are somewhat different. For example regime is a normal word for
a state and is not negative in contrast to normal language.

2009/7/13 Dorin Cheptea <dorin.cheptea@gmail.com>:
> Obviously, I am not going to undermine the disussion in WP, but don't you
> think it should be Forced population transfer(s)? Even the population
> transfer between Greece and Turkey in 1923, which is nowhere near in
> coercion and brutality to what happened after WWII, is often adjectivized
> with "forced". It is a fact that Poles were expulsed from Kresy, as well =
as
> Germans were expulsed from lands east of the Oder-Neisse line. I am not
> talking about the initial refugees, of which were also hundreds of
> thousands, I mean that eventually everyone was forced to leave based on
> ethnic group. I am not saying that those territories were inhabited only =
by
> Poles, resp. Germans. In fact, in some situations, these were in minority.
> And it is clear that not the locals of other ethnic groups were the plann=
ers
> of these forced movements. We all know the perpetrators: Soviets and Sovi=
et
> puppets. And I am not passing any judgement on the historical ethnic
> composition of those territories in middle ages, etc, etc.=A0But still,
> expulsion is expulsion. Personally, I think "population transfer" is
> incorrect. At least, the word "forced" has to be added. I am not so
> knowleadgeable in this area, but beware not to add water to the wheel of =
the
> Soviet defenders. Next thing they will want to call the deportations simp=
le
> population transfers, tourist visits to Siberia, Altai, northern Kazakhst=
an,
> Far East.
> Dorin
>
>
> 2009/7/13 Piotr Konieczny <piokon@post.pl>
>>
>> I've started and widely advertised the discussion here:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:World_War_II_evacuation_and_expulsion#=
Better_name:_population_transfers
>>
>> Feel free to comment over the next few days. My proposal is to rename
>> all articles to "population transfer" - it's neutral and correct.
>>
>> --
>> Piotr Konieczny
>>
>> "The problem about Wikipedia is, that it just works in reality, not in
>> theory."
>>
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