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Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 06:34:56 +0200
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From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview:  Indeed, Right now they might be provocations connected
	to Bandera cyclist raid that will go through Poland by Ukrainian youth.
	2009/8/3 O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>: > > Exactly. Devide and conquer.
	Russians would be the happiest people on the planet if Ukrainians and
	Poles and Lithuanians started fighting again. > > --- On Mon, 8/3/09,
	Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com> wrote: > >> From: Molobo Molobo
	<molobus@gmail.com> >> Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek
	and others. >> To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net> >>
	Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:16 AM >> This is true. On certain
	Polish >> nationalists forums I have observed >> special pro-Russian
	users praising Russia and condeming >> Ukrainians for >> being
	anti-Polish. The same users support Kresowiacy >> organizations and >>
	often call for "restoration" of "Polish" cities like >> Lviv of
	Vilnius.
	>> >> 2009/8/3 O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>: >> > >> > I don't know what it
	is like in Poland but in Ukraine >> Russians are somehow very concerned
	about the Volhynia >> tragedy. Not because they were sending trainloads
	of Poles >> to Siberia, but because it can be used against Ukrainians.
	>> The Communist Party of Ukraine as of now seems to be the >> main
	expert on suffering of Poles at the hands of >> Ukrainians, they even
	sponsored a Canadian author Polishzuk >> to come to Ukraine to give
	lectures about Volyn tragedy... >> > >> > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Molobo
	Molobo <molobus@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >> >> From: Molobo Molobo
	<molobus@gmail.com> >> >> Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus,
	Tymek >> and others. >> >> To: "Wikipedia statistics"
	<folks@wikipedometer.net> >> >> Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:01
	AM >> >> "I knew someone will take my hyposis >> >> about Russian
	interest in this >> >> personally. " >> >> >> >> I actually can add
	that
	personally I have interest >> in how >> >> well the >> >> Kresowiacy
	are
	inflitrated by Russian/former >> Soviet agents. >> >> I mean if >> >>
	the Catholic Church was infiltrated then for >> certain >> >>
	Kresowiacy
	could >> >> be as well. I often encounter claims of actions >> from
	their >> >> sides that >> >> serve [...] 
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Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and others.
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	Content preview:  Indeed, Right now they might be provocations connected
	to Bandera cyclist raid that will go through Poland by Ukrainian youth.
	2009/8/3 O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>: > > Exactly. Devide and conquer.
	Russians would be the happiest people on the planet if Ukrainians and
	Poles and Lithuanians started fighting again. > > --- On Mon, 8/3/09,
	Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com> wrote: > >> From: Molobo Molobo
	<molobus@gmail.com> >> Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek
	and others. >> To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net> >>
	Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:16 AM >> This is true. On certain
	Polish >> nationalists forums I have observed >> special pro-Russian
	users praising Russia and condeming >> Ukrainians for >> being
	anti-Polish. The same users support Kresowiacy >> organizations and >>
	often call for "restoration" of "Polish" cities like >> Lviv of Vilnius.
	>> >> 2009/8/3 O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>: >> > >> > I don't know what it
	is like in Poland but in Ukraine >> Russians are somehow very concerned
	about the Volhynia >> tragedy. Not because they were sending trainloads
	of Poles >> to Siberia, but because it can be used against Ukrainians.
	>> The Communist Party of Ukraine as of now seems to be the >> main
	expert on suffering of Poles at the hands of >> Ukrainians, they even
	sponsored a Canadian author Polishzuk >> to come to Ukraine to give
	lectures about Volyn tragedy... >> > >> > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Molobo
	Molobo <molobus@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >> >> From: Molobo Molobo
	<molobus@gmail.com> >> >> Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus,
	Tymek >> and others. >> >> To: "Wikipedia statistics"
	<folks@wikipedometer.net> >> >> Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:01
	AM >> >> "I knew someone will take my hyposis >> >> about Russian
	interest in this >> >> personally. " >> >> >> >> I actually can add that
	personally I have interest >> in how >> >> well the >> >> Kresowiacy are
	inflitrated by Russian/former >> Soviet agents. >> >> I mean if >> >>
	the Catholic Church was infiltrated then for >> certain >> >> Kresowiacy
	could >> >> be as well. I often encounter claims of actions >> from
	their >> >> sides that >> >> serve [...] 
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Indeed, Right now they might be provocations connected to Bandera
cyclist raid that will go through Poland by Ukrainian youth.

2009/8/3 O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>:
>
> Exactly. Devide and conquer. Russians would be the happiest people on the=
 planet if Ukrainians and Poles and Lithuanians started fighting again.
>
> --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and others.
>> To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
>> Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:16 AM
>> This is true. On certain Polish
>> nationalists forums I have observed
>> special pro-Russian users praising Russia and condeming
>> Ukrainians for
>> being anti-Polish. The same users support Kresowiacy
>> organizations and
>> often call for "restoration" of=A0 "Polish" cities like
>> Lviv of Vilnius.
>>
>> 2009/8/3 O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>:
>> >
>> > I don't know what it is like in Poland but in Ukraine
>> Russians are somehow very concerned about the Volhynia
>> tragedy. Not because they were sending trainloads of Poles
>> to Siberia, but because it can be used against Ukrainians.
>> The Communist Party of Ukraine as of now seems to be the
>> main expert on suffering of Poles at the hands of
>> Ukrainians, they even sponsored a Canadian author Polishzuk
>> to come to Ukraine to give lectures about Volyn tragedy...
>> >
>> > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
>> >> Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek
>> and others.
>> >> To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
>> >> Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:01 AM
>> >> "I knew someone will take my hyposis
>> >> about Russian interest in this
>> >> personally. "
>> >>
>> >> I actually can add that personally I have interest
>> in how
>> >> well the
>> >> Kresowiacy are inflitrated by Russian/former
>> Soviet agents.
>> >> I mean if
>> >> the Catholic Church was infiltrated then for
>> certain
>> >> Kresowiacy could
>> >> be as well. I often encounter claims of actions
>> from their
>> >> sides that
>> >> serve to harm relations with Ukrainians or almost
>> racist
>> >> like attitude
>> >> and started to wonder if some of them are not
>> doing it on
>> >> purpouse.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> 2009/8/3 O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>:
>> >> >
>> >> > I knew someone will take my hyposis about
>> Russian
>> >> interest in this personally. Apparently you have a
>> lot to
>> >> learn about UPA and AK and their activities. No
>> one is
>> >> trying to whitewash the UPA, they did what they
>> did. There
>> >> is hardly a force in WWII who didn't commit
>> objectionable
>> >> acts. That goes for AK in particular, which
>> massacred up to
>> >> 20,000 Ukrainians in reprisal killings. http://web.ku.edu/~eceurope/h=
ist557/lect17.htm
>> >> >
>> >> > This must be a thing with some Poles to piss
>> and moan
>> >> about every little thing someone caused them.
>> There are
>> >> several anti-Ukrainian articles about UPA
>> atrocities, The
>> >> Volhyn Massacre is jus an example of the
>> egregeous, one
>> >> sided anti-Ukrainian rant. If you are so concerned
>> about the
>> >> truth, why not write an article on Pacifikacija?
>> Or this is
>> >> not part of the Polish history? Or you
>> conveniently prefer
>> >> to turn a blind eye to it? Start from there...
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> From: piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
>> >> >> Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek ,
>> Piotrus, Tymek
>> >> and others.
>> >> >> To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
>> >> >> Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 9:34
>> AM
>> >> >> Oh yes, I am one of these persons
>> >> >> financed by the Russians. They=A0have paid
>> me 50
>> >> >> Belarusian rubles, since paying in
>> Russian
>> >> currency would be
>> >> >> too obvious, and they wanted to keep it a
>> secret.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> OK, let us be serious here. Ukrainian
>> Insurgent
>> >> Army
>> >> >> commited atrocities on a large scale, in
>> fact
>> >> killing Polish
>> >> >> civilians was the main activity of this
>> >> organization for
>> >> >> several months. Polish Home Army did
>> commit
>> >> crimes, but it
>> >> >> never planned extermination of Polish
>> minorities,
>> >> not to
>> >> >> mention carrying out such a plan.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> UIA is regarded as heroes in Western
>> Ukraine only,
>> >> and
>> >> >> also there older generations call them
>> bandits, as
>> >> this
>> >> >> organization terrorized Ukrainians, and
>> also
>> >> killed
>> >> >> thousands of their fellow countrymen,
>> those who
>> >> did not want
>> >> >> to cooperate/kill their Polish neighbors,
>> just
>> >> look at the
>> >> >> fate of Bulba-Borovets. There are
>> Ukrainian
>> >> sources which
>> >> >> support what I have written. I am shocked
>> that the
>> >> great
>> >> >> nation of Ukraine cannot find different
>> role
>> >> models than
>> >> >> Roman Skuhevych, leader of Sluzba
>> Bezpeky, one of
>> >> the most
>> >> >> murderous and fanatical organizations of
>> WW2.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It is interesting that the Ukrainian
>> side
>> >> frequently
>> >> >> mentions atrocities commited by the Poles
>> in
>> >> Volhynia, but I
>> >> >> have not seen a single description of
>> these
>> >> massacres with a
>> >> >> date and a location.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Tymek
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Piotr Konieczny
>> >> >> <piokon@post.pl>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> From: Piotr Konieczny <piokon@post.pl>
>> >> >> Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek ,
>> Piotrus, Tymek
>> >> and
>> >> >> others.
>> >> >> To: "Wikipedia statistics"
>> >> >> <folks@wikipedometer.net>
>> >> >> Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 6:42 PM
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> O. G. wrote:
>> >> >> > But in spite of that, for millions
>> of
>> >> Ukrainians UPA
>> >> >> always will be heroes, because they
>> fought for the
>> >> freedom
>> >> >> of their country.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> One men's terrorist is another men's
>> hero, and
>> >> >> there is no denying that.
>> >> >> This is also an attitude of many
>> Lithuanian
>> >> editors, and
>> >> >> presumably a
>> >> >> sentiment shared more widely among the
>> eastern
>> >> countries. I
>> >> >> can
>> >> >> understand and I cannot blame those who
>> after
>> >> Soviet
>> >> >> repression saw
>> >> >> German Nazis as liberators. They couldn't
>> know
>> >> what was
>> >> >> really going on.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Still, one should be able to admit one
>> made a
>> >> mistake. Just
>> >> >> as Poles
>> >> >> should (and in some instances, did)
>> apologize for
>> >> the
>> >> >> exceptional but
>> >> >> real massacres committed by AK and other
>> Poles
>> >> >> (Jedwabne...), so should
>> >> >> those who threw their lot in with the
>> Nazis and
>> >> worked with
>> >> >> them
>> >> >> apologize for all the suffering that they
>> caused.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Bottom line is that there is no white and
>> black,
>> >> there are
>> >> >> always
>> >> >> =A0shades
>> >> >> of gray (but shades that can be
>> sometimes
>> >> compared!), and
>> >> >> we have to
>> >> >> admit that many heroes were also, at the
>> same
>> >> time,
>> >> >> criminals.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > PS I wouldn't be surprised if Russia
>> were
>> >> >> clandestinely financing people in Poland
>> bringing
>> >> this issue
>> >> >> over and over again. Just a guess...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Good point, again. Let's not loose the
>> sight of
>> >> the
>> >> >> bigger picture.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Piotr Konieczny
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "The problem about Wikipedia is, that it
>> just
>> >> works in
>> >> >> reality, not in
>> >> >> theory."
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
>> >> >> folks@wikipedometer.net
>> >> >> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
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