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Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 16:56:25 +0300
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From: Dorin Cheptea <dorin.cheptea@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview:  Andrei,
	1) This is indeed real stuff. I can see now. 2)
	You are a real crussader against three-letter organizations' operations
	in the wiki-world. 3) I had no idea about wikimapia possible
	connection.
	I must be more careful in the future... 4) why was ellol not banned
	after using slang language to such extent? (for example, EvilAlex was
	permanently banned for using it in only one instance.) Can we exploit
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	after using slang language to such extent? (for example, EvilAlex was
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Andrei,

1) This is indeed real stuff. I can see now.
2) You are a real crussader against three-letter organizations' operations
in the wiki-world.
3) I had no idea about wikimapia possible connection. I must be more careful
in the future...
4) why was ellol not banned after using slang language to such extent? (for
example, EvilAlex was permanently banned for using it in only one instance.)
Can we exploit this direction, i.e. trying to get to ban people based on
their language in WP?
Dorin

2009/4/30 Andrei Dombay <wikibiophys@gmail.com>

> Since we are getting more serious, let me tell this. Some people simply do
> not hide who they really are. This young man
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alexandre_Koriakine lives in
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatutinki and apparently works for the
> Russian GRU, which he does not hide. I am sure that the entire
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimapia thing is a pet project of GRU.   I
> also suspect (but not sure) that Offliner and/or LokiiT/Krawdawg are socks
> of Koriakine.
>
> Long time ago I did some skiing right near Vatutinki, without having a
> slightest idea what that place was. It was only later that I have learned
> about this major cyphering center from books by V. Suvorov.
>
>  With my Soviet/Russian cultural backgound, I can more easily judge who is
> who based on a single edit. For example, Ghirla is a genuine Russian
> cultural nationalist/patriot simply based on this:
>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alexander_Blok&diff=9879549&oldid=9394990
>
> That is actually a good edit, something I basically agree.
>
> This is a typical psychologial reaction of someone from "organs":
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Vladimir_Putin&diff=prev&oldid=89279206
>
> And that
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Boris_Stomakhin/Evidence#Threats_by_User:ellol
>
> was indeed a threat.
>
> Irpen belongs to people who are "intransparent" - they are covered by a
> well-designed "armour" through which one can not easily see. This is one of
> typical characteristics of people who work in "organs", although I can not
> really tell anything about him without having more information. He now lives
> in US.
>
> If there are any "officially authorized" people here, one of their
> important characteristics should be this: they are not authorized to create
> new articles and meningful content
> about their sending organizations and key actions by such organizations
> (but delete - yes). Based on this criterion, I could exclude Igny, but
> suspect Russavia and Offliner.
>
> Please suggest other experiments or criteria to judge that. This is no
> different from any other research.
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 2:53 AM, Dorin Cheptea <dorin.cheptea@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I agree. I think I am getting strighter my understanding of things. While
>> SVR or FSB won't bother about you, some zelot in "otdel kadrov" can take
>> upon himself to "teach you a lesson", and would be able to use some
>> technical and human aid. That is definitively a real threat you should
>> develop means to counter, since it might be recuring. Not to mention that
>> such persons might have the ability to place your name on some long (but not
>> too huge) list of people known to be annoying SVR/FSB.
>>
>> Irpen was/is an ideologically dedicated person to "cleance" WP to suit his
>> geopolitical preferences. I consider reasonable to believe he works in IT
>> and was physically located in or connected in the past with Kiev/Kyiv, i.e.
>> nothing in common with the Russian three-letter organizations. Re-reading
>> this link now I re-convince myself that Durova's comment might have given
>> him one of the most serious blows he ever received on WP and perhaps was one
>> of the most substantial steps in the undoing of Irpen's influence. Living
>> proof that radicalization distroys the person.
>>
>> As for Dorova's threats themselves, I can believe that this was pulled in
>> the same manner as "otdel kadrov" vs you in the SVR article. But it could be
>> by two different persons, not connected directly with each other. ...which
>> is not less disturbing.
>> Dorin
>>
>> 2009/4/29 Andrei Dombay <wikibiophys@gmail.com>
>>
>> If anyone wants direct evidence, here it is. Please read "Russian Foreign
>>> Intelligence" section in my old page, and look at links there:
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Biophys&oldid=285155273
>>>
>>> The WP:COI editing (by IP addresses) was so obvious (!), although that
>>> was apparently someone from SVR human resources department ("otdel kadrov"
>>> in Russian). Interestingly enough, Durova, who semi-protected this page
>>> after my request, later complained that
>>>
>>> "the FBI opened an investigation into months of death threats that were
>>> being sent to me from a stable location within driving distance of my home"
>>> (see here
>>>
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/Eastern_European_disputes#Observation_by_Durova
>>>
>>> Let's think that was simply a coincidence.
>>>
>>> Andrei
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 9:23 AM, Dorin Cheptea <dorin.cheptea@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yeltsin liked non-ordinary solutions. So, he wanted to give a sort-of
>>>> goodbye blow to all the people that pissed him in his last 3-4 years in
>>>> power, and make a nobody his successor. Now, if you take the nobodies with
>>>> small to medium distance to Kremlin in late 1990s, and double check to
>>>> exclude those that crossed Yeltsin, the percentage of former KGB officers
>>>> was relatively high. Hense the result: Putin.
>>>>
>>>> BTW, thank you very much to Piotr for info about spyware protaction.
>>>>
>>>> Dorin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2009/4/29 Christian Suciu <christiansuciu@yahoo.com>
>>>>
>>>>>   Interesting speculations, Andrei. One episode I think hasn't gotten
>>>>> a lot of attention (at least on Wikipedia) is the link between the August
>>>>> 1998 financial crisis and the installation of Putin as prime minister just
>>>>> one year later. What was the precise road that led from the crisis to Putin?
>>>>> What later impact did the fall of many oligarchs in the crisis have? Didn't
>>>>> insiders know there was going to be a collapse of the ruble, and what
>>>>> significance did that have?
>>>>> To go even further back, the 1996 election is interesting in that it
>>>>> showed those in power (Yeltsin et al. they could manipulate the media
>>>>> to win an election) - oh, but what glorious days those were compared to
>>>>> today: a Russian President actually had to worry deeply about re-election,
>>>>> he faced a hostile Duma, a vigorous press (including opposition TV
>>>>> stations)...
>>>>>
>>>>> This reminds me of the film [[Kiss Me Deadly]] - there's a hot,
>>>>> dangerous core to all this - the apartment bombings being the work of the
>>>>> state, almost - but not quite - too absurd to believe. Litvinenko knew the
>>>>> truth, and he was killed for it. Politkovskaya was also getting dangerously
>>>>> close. Who will be next?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
>>>>> folks@wikipedometer.net
>>>>> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
>>>> folks@wikipedometer.net
>>>> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
>>> folks@wikipedometer.net
>>> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
>> folks@wikipedometer.net
>> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> folks@wikipedometer.net
> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>
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<div>Andrei,</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>1) This is indeed real stuff. I can see now.</div>
<div>2) You are a real crussader against three-letter organizations&#39; op=
erations in the wiki-world.</div>
<div>3) I had no idea about wikimapia possible connection. I must be more c=
areful in the future...</div>
<div>4) why was ellol not banned after using slang language to such extent?=
 (for example, EvilAlex was permanently banned for using it in only one ins=
tance.) Can we exploit this direction, i.e. trying to get to ban people bas=
ed on their language in WP?</div>

<div>Dorin<br><br></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">2009/4/30 Andrei Dombay <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:wikibiophys@gmail.com">wikibiophys@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>=
<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">Since we are getting more seriou=
s, let me tell this. Some people simply do not hide who they really are. Th=
is young man <a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alexandre_Koriaki=
ne" target=3D"_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alexandre_Koriakine=
</a> lives in <a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatutinki" target=3D"=
_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatutinki</a> and apparently works for=
 the Russian GRU, which he does not hide. I am sure that the entire <a href=
=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimapia" target=3D"_blank">http://en.wik=
ipedia.org/wiki/Wikimapia</a> thing is a pet project of GRU. =A0 I also sus=
pect (but not sure) that Offliner and/or LokiiT/Krawdawg are socks of Koria=
kine.<br>
<br>Long time ago I did some skiing right near Vatutinki, without having a =
slightest idea what that place was. It was only later that I have learned a=
bout this major cyphering center from books by V. Suvorov.<br><br>=A0With m=
y Soviet/Russian cultural backgound, I can more easily judge who is who bas=
ed on a single edit. For example, Ghirla is a genuine Russian cultural nati=
onalist/patriot simply based on this:<br>
<br><a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=3DAlexander_Blok&a=
mp;diff=3D9879549&amp;oldid=3D9394990" target=3D"_blank">http://en.wikipedi=
a.org/w/index.php?title=3DAlexander_Blok&amp;diff=3D9879549&amp;oldid=3D939=
4990</a> <br>
<br>That is actually a good edit, something I basically agree.<br><br>This =
is a typical psychologial reaction of someone from &quot;organs&quot;:<br><=
a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=3DTalk:Vladimir_Putin&a=
mp;diff=3Dprev&amp;oldid=3D89279206" target=3D"_blank">http://en.wikipedia.=
org/w/index.php?title=3DTalk:Vladimir_Putin&amp;diff=3Dprev&amp;oldid=3D892=
79206</a><br>
<br>And that <a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for=
_arbitration/Boris_Stomakhin/Evidence#Threats_by_User:ellol" target=3D"_bla=
nk">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Boris_S=
tomakhin/Evidence#Threats_by_User:ellol</a><br>
<br>was indeed a threat. <br><br>Irpen belongs to people who are &quot;intr=
ansparent&quot; - they are covered by a well-designed &quot;armour&quot; th=
rough which one can not easily see. This is one of typical characteristics =
of people who work in &quot;organs&quot;, although I can not really tell an=
ything about him without having more information. He now lives in US.<br>
<br>If there are any &quot;officially authorized&quot; people here, one of =
their important characteristics should be this: they are not authorized to =
create new articles and meningful content<br>about their sending organizati=
ons and key actions by such organizations (but delete - yes). Based on this=
 criterion, I could exclude Igny, but suspect Russavia and Offliner.<br>
<br>Please suggest other experiments or criteria to judge that. This is no =
different from any other research. <br>
<div>
<div></div>
<div class=3D"h5">=A0 <br><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 2:53 AM, Dorin Cheptea <=
span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dorin.cheptea@gmail.com" target=3D"_=
blank">dorin.cheptea@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0pt 0=
pt 0pt 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>I agree. I think I am getting strighter my understanding of things.=A0=
While SVR or FSB won&#39;t bother about you, some zelot in &quot;otdel kadr=
ov&quot; can take upon himself to &quot;teach you a lesson&quot;, and would=
 be able to use some technical and human aid. That is definitively a real t=
hreat you should develop means to counter,=A0since it might be recuring. No=
t to mention that such persons might have the ability to place your name on=
 some long (but not too huge) list of people known to be annoying=A0SVR/FSB=
.=A0</div>

<div><br>Irpen was/is an ideologically dedicated person to &quot;cleance&qu=
ot; WP to suit his geopolitical preferences. I consider reasonable to belie=
ve he works in IT and was physically located in or=A0connected in the past =
with=A0Kiev/Kyiv, i.e. nothing in common with the Russian three-letter orga=
nizations.=A0Re-reading this link=A0now I re-convince myself that Durova&#3=
9;s comment might have given him one of the most serious blows he ever rece=
ived on WP and perhaps was one of the most substantial steps in=A0the undoi=
ng of Irpen&#39;s influence. Living proof that radicalization distroys the =
person.</div>

<div>=A0</div>
<div>As for=A0Dorova&#39;s threats=A0themselves, I can believe that this wa=
s pulled in the same manner as &quot;otdel kadrov&quot; vs you in the SVR a=
rticle. But it could be by two different persons, not connected directly=A0=
with each other. ...which is not less disturbing.=A0<br>
</div>
<div>Dorin</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">2009/4/29 Andrei Dombay <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:wikibiophys@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">wikibiophys@gmail.=
com</a>&gt;</span>=20
<div>
<div></div>
<div><br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">If anyone wants dire=
ct evidence, here it is. Please read &quot;Russian Foreign Intelligence&quo=
t; section in my old page, and look at links there: <br>
<br><a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=3DUser:Biophys&amp=
;oldid=3D285155273" target=3D"_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?t=
itle=3DUser:Biophys&amp;oldid=3D285155273</a><br><br>The WP:COI editing (by=
 IP addresses) was so obvious (!), although that was apparently someone fro=
m SVR human resources department (&quot;otdel kadrov&quot; in Russian). Int=
erestingly enough, Durova, who semi-protected this page after my request, l=
ater complained that<br>
<br>&quot;the FBI opened an investigation into months of death threats that=
 were being sent to me from a stable location within driving distance of my=
 home&quot; (see here <br><br><a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip=
edia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/Eastern_European_disputes#Observation_by=
_Durova" target=3D"_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Requ=
ests_for_arbitration/Eastern_European_disputes#Observation_by_Durova</a><br=
>
<br>Let&#39;s think that was simply a coincidence.<br><font color=3D"#88888=
8"><br>Andrei</font>=20
<div>
<div></div>
<div><br><br>=A0<br><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 9:23 AM, Dorin Cheptea <=
span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dorin.cheptea@gmail.com" target=3D"_=
blank">dorin.cheptea@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0pt 0=
pt 0pt 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">Yeltsin liked non-or=
dinary solutions. So, he wanted to give a sort-of goodbye blow to all the p=
eople that pissed him in his last 3-4 years in power, and make a nobody his=
 successor. Now, if you take the nobodies with small to medium distance to =
Kremlin in late 1990s, and double check to exclude those that crossed Yelts=
in, the percentage of former KGB officers was relatively high. Hense the re=
sult: Putin.<br>
<br>BTW, thank you very much to Piotr for info about spyware protaction.<br=
><br>Dorin<br><br><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">2009/4/29 Christian Suciu <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:christiansuciu@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank">christiansuci=
u@yahoo.com</a>&gt;</span><br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0pt 0=
pt 0pt 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>
<table border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: inherit; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-stretch:=
 inherit" valign=3D"top">Interesting speculations, Andrei. One episode I th=
ink hasn&#39;t gotten a lot of attention (at least on Wikipedia) is the lin=
k between the August 1998 financial crisis and the installation of Putin as=
 prime minister just one year later. What was the precise road that led fro=
m the crisis to Putin? What later impact did the fall of many oligarchs in =
the crisis have? Didn&#39;t insiders know there was going to be a collapse =
of the ruble, and what significance did that have?=20
<div><br></div>
<div>To go even further back, the 1996 election is interesting in that it s=
howed those in power (Yeltsin <span style=3D"FONT-STYLE: italic">et al.</sp=
an>=A0they could manipulate the media to win an election) - oh, but what gl=
orious days those were compared to today: a Russian President actually had =
to worry deeply about re-election, he faced a hostile Duma, a vigorous pres=
s (including opposition TV stations)...</div>

<div><br></div>
<div>This reminds me of the film [[Kiss Me Deadly]] - there&#39;s a hot, da=
ngerous core to all this - the apartment bombings being the work of the sta=
te, almost - but not quite - too absurd to believe. Litvinenko knew the tru=
th, and he was killed for it. Politkovskaya was also getting dangerously cl=
ose. Who will be next?=A0<img></div>
</td></tr></tbody></table><br><br></div>
<div>_______________________________________________<br>Wikipedia statistic=
s discussion list<br><a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net" target=3D"_=
blank">folks@wikipedometer.net</a><br><a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/c=
gi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/c=
gi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br>
<br></div></blockquote></div><br><br>______________________________________=
_________<br>Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br><a href=3D"mailto:folk=
s@wikipedometer.net" target=3D"_blank">folks@wikipedometer.net</a><br><a hr=
ef=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br>
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