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Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 12:51:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview:  User Ostap would be good and useful here. He is
	Ukrainian, so one more nation would be included. Tymek --- On Mon,
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User Ostap would be good and useful here. He is Ukrainian, so one more nati=
on would be included.
Tymek

--- On Mon, 6/8/09, Dorin Cheptea <dorin.cheptea@gmail.com> wrote:


From: Dorin Cheptea <dorin.cheptea@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [WPM] More cabal theory
To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 9:58 AM





2009/6/8 Miacek and his crime-fighting dog <miacek08@googlemail.com>

Shafarevich has done great job when treating socialism's historical
traces and background (see ''The Socialist Phenomenon''). He turned a
die-hard Russian chauvinist in early 1990s, actually joining the
National Salvation Front which also included hardline Stalinists in
addition to more 'moderate' nationalists and commies. I imagine
Shafarevich still being rather uncomfortable with such bedfellow.

Miacek.




He had the same ideas during the hight of the Soviet system, when he was a =
member of the Sakharov's group. He was sort of a "white raven" among them. =
He was anti-Soviet but part of the reason was that in his mind the Soviets =
were anti-Russian. As for activity after 1990, I personally have to say one=
 thing: intelligent people have to know when to slow down and let new peopl=
e take the lead. If you want to be in the spotlight when you are 30, when y=
ou are 50, and when you are 70 as well, then your egocentrism has blinded y=
our common sense, and you look ridiculous. Having to "endure" hardline Stal=
inists is punishement for luck of common sense.




> If we want to have a real ''Eastern European'' cabal, then we have to
> recruit more members with different ethnic background. An alliance of
> Estonian-Romanian-Polish 'cabals' plus a few other _indivihduals_, me
> included, is not enough yet to represent the Eastern Europe ;-)


1) we want to have an anti-team USSR cabal. Currently that's the main probl=
em eastern Europeans have, but the two things are not identical. We can sub=
sequently use our experience with Soviet topics for other areas if we find =
common goals, I agree, but without damage to the main issue.
2) Right now, it's mostly Polish-Estonian :) Two Romanians, one Latvian, on=
e Ukrainian, one Russian means that from these nations we luck enough WP-ia=
ns (well, from Russia, it's a different story). We discussed one Swede at s=
ome point, what was the conclusion? Now, "Eastern Europeans" means we have =
to have both Serbs and Croations, Hungarian and Slovaks, as well as East Ge=
rmans and Lithuanians. I guess you see the problem.
3) The reason we are slow in getting more "members" is that we want to be s=
ure of the safety, that each of us is responsible for not suggesting even i=
ndirectly the possibility that this discussion forum exists. The reason is =
that, albeit we don't plan attacks here, as team USSR would think we do, we=
 do exchange information that helps each of us individually, and ultimately=
 our collaboration on WP gains. So, you see, we need this. Thus, we need 10=
0% safety. And the danger to safety can come not from one of us suddenly tu=
rning Soviet informer (Soviets won't buy any of us after the damage we did =
to them), but from one of us becoming uncomfortable on some national issue =
with another one, and considering that issue more important for him than co=
mbating team USSR, and slip a word or two in order to annoy that editor.=A0


Dorin
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----


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folks@wikipedometer.net
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<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><DIV>User Ostap would be good and useful here=
. He is Ukrainian, so one more nation would be included.</DIV>
<DIV>Tymek<BR><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 6/8/09, Dorin Cheptea <I>&lt;dorin.cheptea=
@gmail.com&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid"><BR>From: Dorin Cheptea &lt;dorin.cheptea@gmail.com&g=
t;<BR>Subject: Re: [WPM] More cabal theory<BR>To: "Wikipedia statistics" &l=
t;folks@wikipedometer.net&gt;<BR>Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 9:58 AM<BR><BR=
>
<DIV id=3Dyiv191979056><BR><BR>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>2009/6/8 Miacek and his crime-fighting dog <SPAN d=
ir=3Dltr>&lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dmiac=
ek08@googlemail.com" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:miace=
k08@googlemail.com">miacek08@googlemail.com</A>&gt;</SPAN><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px=
 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Shafarevich has done great job whe=
n treating socialism's historical<BR>traces and background (see ''The Socia=
list Phenomenon''). He turned a<BR>die-hard Russian chauvinist in early 199=
0s, actually joining the<BR>National Salvation Front which also included ha=
rdline Stalinists in<BR>addition to more 'moderate' nationalists and commie=
s. I imagine<BR>Shafarevich still being rather uncomfortable with such bedf=
ellow.<BR><FONT color=3D#888888><BR>Miacek.<BR></FONT>
<DIV class=3Dim></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>He had the same ideas during the hight of the Soviet system, when he w=
as a member of the Sakharov's group. He was sort of a "white raven" among t=
hem. He was anti-Soviet but part of the reason was that in his mind the Sov=
iets were anti-Russian. As for activity after 1990, I personally have to sa=
y one thing: intelligent people have to know when to slow down and let new =
people take the lead. If you want to be in the spotlight when you are 30, w=
hen you are 50, and when you are 70 as well, then your egocentrism has blin=
ded your common sense, and you look ridiculous. Having to "endure" hardline=
 Stalinists is punishement for luck of common sense.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span style=3D"BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse">&gt=
; If we want to have a real ''Eastern European'' cabal, then we have to<BR>=
&gt; recruit more members with different ethnic background. An alliance of<=
BR>&gt; Estonian-Romanian-Polish 'cabals' plus a few other _indivihduals_, =
me<BR>&gt; included, is not enough yet to represent the Eastern Europe ;-)<=
/SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span style=3D"BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse"><BR=
></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span style=3D"BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse">1) =
we want to have an anti-team USSR cabal. Currently that's the main problem =
eastern Europeans have, but the two things are not identical. We can subseq=
uently use our experience with Soviet topics for other areas if we find com=
mon goals, I agree, but without damage to the main issue.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span style=3D"BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse">2) =
Right now, it's mostly Polish-Estonian :) Two Romanians, one Latvian, one U=
krainian, one Russian means that from these nations we luck enough WP-ians =
(well, from Russia, it's a different story). We discussed one Swede at some=
 point, what was the conclusion? Now, "Eastern Europeans" means we have to =
have both Serbs and Croations, Hungarian and Slovaks, as well as East Germa=
ns and Lithuanians. I guess you see the problem.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span style=3D"BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse">3) =
The reason we are slow in getting more "members" is that we want to be sure=
 of the safety, that each of us is responsible for not suggesting even indi=
rectly the possibility that this discussion forum exists. The reason is tha=
t, albeit we don't plan attacks here, as team USSR would think we do, we do=
 exchange information that helps each of us individually, and ultimately ou=
r collaboration on WP gains. So, you see, we need this. Thus, we need 100% =
safety. And the danger to safety can come not from one of us suddenly turni=
ng Soviet informer (Soviets won't buy any of us after the damage we did to =
them), but from one of us becoming uncomfortable on some national issue wit=
h another one, and considering that issue more important for him than comba=
ting team USSR, and slip a word or two in order to annoy that editor.&nbsp;=
</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span style=3D"BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse"><BR=
></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span style=3D"BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse">Dor=
in</SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<BR><BR>
<DIV class=3DplainMail>_______________________________________________<BR>W=
ikipedia statistics discussion list<BR><A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yaho=
o.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@wiki=
pedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</A><BR><A href=3D"http://wikipedomet=
er.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D_blank>http://wikipedometer=
.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</A><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></t=
able><br>=0A=0A      
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