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Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:07:32 -0400
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From: Andrei Dombay <wikibiophys@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview:  I agree with Dorin. On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 5:36 PM, 
	Dorin Cheptea <dorin.cheptea@gmail.com>wrote: > Obviously, I am not
	going to undermine the disussion in WP, but don't you > think it should
	be *Forced *population transfer(s)? Even the population > transfer
	between Greece and Turkey in 1923, which is nowhere near in > coercion
	and brutality to what happened after WWII, is often adjectivized > with
	"forced". It is a fact that Poles were expulsed from Kresy, as well as >
	Germans were expulsed from lands east of the Oder-Neisse line. I am not
	> talking about the initial refugees, of which were also hundreds of >
	thousands, I mean that eventually everyone was forced to leave based on
	> ethnic group. I am not saying that those territories were inhabited
	only by > Poles, resp. Germans. In fact, in some situations, these were
	in minority. > And it is clear that not the locals of other ethnic
	groups were the planners > of these forced movements. We all know the
	perpetrators: Soviets and Soviet > puppets. And I am not passing any
	judgement on the historical ethnic > composition of those territories
	in
	middle ages, etc, etc. But still, > expulsion is expulsion. Personally, 
	I think "population transfer" is > incorrect. At least, the word
	"forced" has to be added. I am not so > knowleadgeable in this area, but
	beware not to add water to the wheel of the > Soviet defenders. Next
	thing they will want to call the deportations simple > population
	transfers, tourist visits to Siberia, Altai, northern Kazakhstan, > Far
	East. Dorin > > 2009/7/13 Piotr Konieczny <piokon@post.pl> > > I've
	started and widely advertised the discussion here: >> >>
	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:World_War_II_evacuation_and_expulsion#Better_name:_population_transfers
	>> >> Feel free to comment over the next few days. My proposal is to
	rename >> all articles to "population transfer" - it's neutral and
	correct. >> >> -- >> Piotr Konieczny >> >> "The problem about Wikipedia
	is, that it just works in reality, not in >> theory." >> >> >> Wikipedia
	statistics discussion list >> folks@wikipedometer.net >> [...] 
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Subject: Re: [WPM] Renaming to population transfer
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	Content preview:  I agree with Dorin. On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 5:36 PM,
	Dorin Cheptea <dorin.cheptea@gmail.com>wrote: > Obviously, I am not
	going to undermine the disussion in WP, but don't you > think it should
	be *Forced *population transfer(s)? Even the population > transfer
	between Greece and Turkey in 1923, which is nowhere near in > coercion
	and brutality to what happened after WWII, is often adjectivized > with
	"forced". It is a fact that Poles were expulsed from Kresy, as well as >
	Germans were expulsed from lands east of the Oder-Neisse line. I am not
	> talking about the initial refugees, of which were also hundreds of >
	thousands, I mean that eventually everyone was forced to leave based on
	> ethnic group. I am not saying that those territories were inhabited
	only by > Poles, resp. Germans. In fact, in some situations, these were
	in minority. > And it is clear that not the locals of other ethnic
	groups were the planners > of these forced movements. We all know the
	perpetrators: Soviets and Soviet > puppets. And I am not passing any
	judgement on the historical ethnic > composition of those territories in
	middle ages, etc, etc. But still, > expulsion is expulsion. Personally,
	I think "population transfer" is > incorrect. At least, the word
	"forced" has to be added. I am not so > knowleadgeable in this area, but
	beware not to add water to the wheel of the > Soviet defenders. Next
	thing they will want to call the deportations simple > population
	transfers, tourist visits to Siberia, Altai, northern Kazakhstan, > Far
	East. Dorin > > 2009/7/13 Piotr Konieczny <piokon@post.pl> > > I've
	started and widely advertised the discussion here: >> >>
	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:World_War_II_evacuation_and_expulsion#Better_name:_population_transfers
	>> >> Feel free to comment over the next few days. My proposal is to
	rename >> all articles to "population transfer" - it's neutral and
	correct. >> >> -- >> Piotr Konieczny >> >> "The problem about Wikipedia
	is, that it just works in reality, not in >> theory." >> >> >> Wikipedia
	statistics discussion list >> folks@wikipedometer.net >> [...] 
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I agree with Dorin.

On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 5:36 PM, Dorin Cheptea <dorin.cheptea@gmail.com>wrote:

> Obviously, I am not going to undermine the disussion in WP, but don't you
> think it should be *Forced *population transfer(s)? Even the population
> transfer between Greece and Turkey in 1923, which is nowhere near in
> coercion and brutality to what happened after WWII, is often adjectivized
> with "forced". It is a fact that Poles were expulsed from Kresy, as well as
> Germans were expulsed from lands east of the Oder-Neisse line. I am not
> talking about the initial refugees, of which were also hundreds of
> thousands, I mean that eventually everyone was forced to leave based on
> ethnic group. I am not saying that those territories were inhabited only by
> Poles, resp. Germans. In fact, in some situations, these were in minority.
> And it is clear that not the locals of other ethnic groups were the planners
> of these forced movements. We all know the perpetrators: Soviets and Soviet
> puppets. And I am not passing any judgement on the historical ethnic
> composition of those territories in middle ages, etc, etc. But still,
> expulsion is expulsion. Personally, I think "population transfer" is
> incorrect. At least, the word "forced" has to be added. I am not so
> knowleadgeable in this area, but beware not to add water to the wheel of the
> Soviet defenders. Next thing they will want to call the deportations simple
> population transfers, tourist visits to Siberia, Altai, northern Kazakhstan,
> Far East.     Dorin
>
> 2009/7/13 Piotr Konieczny <piokon@post.pl>
>
> I've started and widely advertised the discussion here:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:World_War_II_evacuation_and_expulsion#Better_name:_population_transfers
>>
>> Feel free to comment over the next few days. My proposal is to rename
>> all articles to "population transfer" - it's neutral and correct.
>>
>> --
>> Piotr Konieczny
>>
>> "The problem about Wikipedia is, that it just works in reality, not in
>> theory."
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
>> folks@wikipedometer.net
>> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> folks@wikipedometer.net
> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>
>

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I agree with Dorin.<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 =
at 5:36 PM, Dorin Cheptea <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dorin.che=
ptea@gmail.com">dorin.cheptea@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);=
 margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Obviously, I am not going to undermine the disussion in WP, but don&#39;t y=
ou think it should be <i>Forced </i>population transfer(s)? Even the popula=
tion transfer between Greece and Turkey in 1923, which is nowhere near in c=
oercion and brutality to what happened after WWII, is often adjectivized wi=
th &quot;forced&quot;. It is a fact that Poles were expulsed from Kresy, as=
 well as Germans were expulsed from lands east of the Oder-Neisse line. I a=
m not talking about the initial refugees, of which were also hundreds of th=
ousands, I mean that eventually everyone was forced to leave based on ethni=
c group. I am not saying that those territories were inhabited only by Pole=
s, resp. Germans. In fact, in some situations, these were in minority. And =
it is clear that not the locals of other ethnic groups were the planners of=
 these forced movements. We all know the perpetrators: Soviets and Soviet p=
uppets. And I am not passing any judgement on the historical ethnic composi=
tion of those territories in middle ages, etc, etc.=A0But still, expulsion =
is expulsion. Personally, I think &quot;population transfer&quot; is incorr=
ect. At least, the word &quot;forced&quot; has to be added. I am not so kno=
wleadgeable in this area, but beware not to add water to the wheel of the S=
oviet defenders. Next thing they will want to call the deportations simple =
population transfers, tourist visits to Siberia, Altai, northern Kazakhstan=
, Far East. =A0 =A0<div>

Dorin=A0<div><div>=A0<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2009/7/13 Piotr Kon=
ieczny <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;piokon@post.pl&gt;</span><div><div></div><div =
class=3D"h5"><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1p=
x solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">

I&#39;ve started and widely advertised the discussion here:<br>
<a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:World_War_II_evacuation_and_ex=
pulsion#Better_name:_population_transfers" target=3D"_blank">http://en.wiki=
pedia.org/wiki/Talk:World_War_II_evacuation_and_expulsion#Better_name:_popu=
lation_transfers</a><br>


<br>
Feel free to comment over the next few days. My proposal is to rename<br>
all articles to &quot;population transfer&quot; - it&#39;s neutral and corr=
ect.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Piotr Konieczny<br>
<br>
&quot;The problem about Wikipedia is, that it just works in reality, not in=
<br>
theory.&quot;<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net" target=3D"_blank">folks@wikipedo=
meter.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=
=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div></div><br></div></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
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=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br>

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