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Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 00:31:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Christian Suciu <christiansuciu@yahoo.com>
To: folks@wikipedometer.net
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	Content preview:  I think it's worth exploring Obama's reaction. Two
	things worth keeping in mind are: 1. In 1956, Radio Free Europe's
	broadcasts into Hungary may have led people to expect armed American
	intervention and pushed them to more radical action, as well as
	precipitated the Soviet invasion. Khrushchev may have been prepared to
	accept a Finland-style solution (Soviet sphere of influence but
	non-dictatorial government), but once the Americans involved themselves,
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	In 1991, at the end of the Gulf War, President Bush urged Iraqis to
	revolt against Saddam. Shiites in the south did that; tens of thousands
	were killed as a result. The US had urged them to revolt but not offered
	material assistance once they did so. 2. Iranians are strong
	nationalists with painful memories of being abused by imperialists
	(British, Americans, Soviets). If the US gives a hint of leading,
	funding, controlling the opposition to Ahmadinejad/Khameini, that can be
	fatal to them, as they can be portrayed as American stooges. Khameini
	already accused the British of interfering. Lesson: Obama needs to be
	cautious. True, Reagan wasn't cautious when supporting Solidarity, but
	the Poles didn't mind American support, no matter how great. With the
	Iranians, it's different, and support has to be given carefully. Though
	he did make a mistake by equating Moussavi withÂ Ahmadinejad. Or, to
	quote the British Foreign Secretary: People ask whether or not we are
	doing enough to back Mousavi supporters. The fact is that those on the
	streets have not asked for us to be their spokesmen. We need to stand
	for our deeply held commitment that it is for the Iranian people to
	decide on their government, and we will continue to call for peaceful
	respect for media and protestors. ... Â These are fine lines but we know
	the cost of crossing them. The memory of foreign intervention throughout
	their history is deep within all Iranians. A proud people wants to
	decide its own future. We should defend that. [...] 
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Subject: Re: [WPM] Russia and Iran
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	Content preview:  I think it's worth exploring Obama's reaction. Two
	things worth keeping in mind are: 1. In 1956, Radio Free Europe's
	broadcasts into Hungary may have led people to expect armed American
	intervention and pushed them to more radical action, as well as
	precipitated the Soviet invasion. Khrushchev may have been prepared to
	accept a Finland-style solution (Soviet sphere of influence but
	non-dictatorial government), but once the Americans involved themselves,
	the conflict took on a wider dimension and he had to intervene directly.
	In 1991, at the end of the Gulf War, President Bush urged Iraqis to
	revolt against Saddam. Shiites in the south did that; tens of thousands
	were killed as a result. The US had urged them to revolt but not offered
	material assistance once they did so. 2. Iranians are strong
	nationalists with painful memories of being abused by imperialists
	(British, Americans, Soviets). If the US gives a hint of leading,
	funding, controlling the opposition to Ahmadinejad/Khameini, that can be
	fatal to them, as they can be portrayed as American stooges. Khameini
	already accused the British of interfering. Lesson: Obama needs to be
	cautious. True, Reagan wasn't cautious when supporting Solidarity, but
	the Poles didn't mind American support, no matter how great. With the
	Iranians, it's different, and support has to be given carefully. Though
	he did make a mistake by equating Moussavi withÂ Ahmadinejad. Or, to
	quote the British Foreign Secretary: People ask whether or not we are
	doing enough to back Mousavi supporters. The fact is that those on the
	streets have not asked for us to be their spokesmen. We need to stand
	for our deeply held commitment that it is for the Iranian people to
	decide on their government, and we will continue to call for peaceful
	respect for media and protestors. ... Â These are fine lines but we know
	the cost of crossing them. The memory of foreign intervention throughout
	their history is deep within all Iranians. A proud people wants to
	decide its own future. We should defend that. [...] 
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I think it's worth exploring Obama's reaction. Two things worth keeping in =
mind are:
1. In 1956, Radio Free Europe's broadcasts into Hungary may have led people=
 to expect armed American intervention and pushed them to more radical acti=
on, as well as precipitated the Soviet invasion. Khrushchev may have been p=
repared to accept a Finland-style solution (Soviet sphere of influence but =
non-dictatorial government), but once the Americans involved themselves, th=
e conflict took on a wider dimension and he had to intervene directly.
In 1991, at the end of the Gulf War, President Bush urged Iraqis to revolt =
against Saddam. Shiites in the south did that; tens of thousands were kille=
d as a result. The US had urged them to revolt but not offered material ass=
istance once they did so.
2. Iranians are strong nationalists with painful memories of being abused b=
y imperialists (British, Americans, Soviets). If the US gives a hint of lea=
ding, funding, controlling the opposition to Ahmadinejad/Khameini, that can=
 be fatal to them, as they can be portrayed as American stooges. Khameini a=
lready accused the British of interfering.
Lesson: Obama needs to be cautious. True, Reagan wasn't cautious when suppo=
rting Solidarity, but the Poles didn't mind American support, no matter how=
 great. With the Iranians, it's different, and support has to be given care=
fully. Though he did make a mistake by equating Moussavi with=C2=A0Ahmadine=
jad. Or, to quote the British Foreign Secretary:
People ask whether or not we are doing enough to back Mousavi supporters. T=
he fact is that those on the streets have not asked for us to be their spok=
esmen. We need to stand for our deeply held commitment that it is for the I=
ranian people to decide on their government, and we will continue to call f=
or peaceful respect for media and protestors. ... =C2=A0These are fine line=
s but we know the cost of crossing them. The memory of foreign intervention=
 throughout their history is deep within all Iranians. A proud people wants=
 to decide its own future. We should defend that.

***
Interesting link (for Dorin) on Romanian women in Iran:=C2=A0http://www.cot=
idianul.ro/romancele_din_iran_se_strecoara_printre_regulile_islamice-88709.=
html
***
I've been reverting what I can of Anonimu's edits, but I don't want to be a=
ccused of stalking. Will someone (maybe Dorin) have a look at [[Template:Ro=
manians]]? I'm OK with him removing the kings, but the justification for ta=
king out the others is pretty thin. True, not every=C2=A0artist, filmmaker,=
 musician or athlete active in modern Romania has been an ethnic Romanian, =
but these fields are=C2=A0intrinsically linked to Romanian culture, especia=
lly art and music. As for religion, he's partly right: there are two Romani=
an churches, so what we should do is -Religion ([[Romanian Orthodox Church|=
Orthodox]]=C2=A0=E2=80=A2 [[Romanian Church United with Rome, Greek-Catholi=
c|Greek-Catholic]]).=0A=0A=0A      
--0-1645877504-1245483119=:71393
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<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;">I think it's worth exploring Obama's reaction=
. Two things worth keeping in mind are:<div><br></div><div>1. In 1956, Radi=
o Free Europe's broadcasts into Hungary may have led people to expect armed=
 American intervention and pushed them to more radical action, as well as p=
recipitated the Soviet invasion. Khrushchev may have been prepared to accep=
t a Finland-style solution (Soviet sphere of influence but non-dictatorial =
government), but once the Americans involved themselves, the conflict took =
on a wider dimension and he had to intervene directly.</div><div><br></div>=
<div>In 1991, at the end of the Gulf War, President Bush urged Iraqis to re=
volt against Saddam. Shiites in the south did that; tens of thousands were =
killed as a result. The US had urged them to revolt but not offered materia=
l assistance once they did so.</div><div><br></div><div>2. Iranians are str=
ong
 nationalists with painful memories of being abused by imperialists (Britis=
h, Americans, Soviets). If the US gives a hint of leading, funding, control=
ling the opposition to Ahmadinejad/Khameini, that can be fatal to them, as =
they can be portrayed as American stooges. Khameini already accused the Bri=
tish of interfering.</div><div><br></div><div>Lesson: Obama needs to be cau=
tious. True, Reagan wasn't cautious when supporting Solidarity, but the Pol=
es didn't mind American support, no matter how great. With the Iranians, it=
's different, and support has to be given carefully. Though he did make a m=
istake by equating Moussavi with=C2=A0Ahmadinejad. Or, to quote the British=
 Foreign Secretary:</div><div><br></div><div>People ask whether or not we a=
re doing enough to back Mousavi supporters. The fact is that those on the s=
treets have not asked for us to be their spokesmen. We need to stand for ou=
r deeply held commitment that it is for the Iranian people to decide on
 their government, and we will continue to call for peaceful respect for me=
dia and protestors. ... =C2=A0These are fine lines but we know the cost of =
crossing them. The memory of foreign intervention throughout their history =
is deep within all Iranians. A proud people wants to decide its own future.=
 We should defend that.<br></div><div><br></div><div>***</div><div><br></di=
v><div>Interesting link (for Dorin) on Romanian women in Iran:=C2=A0http://=
www.cotidianul.ro/romancele_din_iran_se_strecoara_printre_regulile_islamice=
-88709.html</div><div><br></div><div>***</div><div><br></div><div>I've been=
 reverting what I can of Anonimu's edits, but I don't want to be accused of=
 stalking. Will someone (maybe Dorin) have a look at [[Template:Romanians]]=
? I'm OK with him removing the kings, but the justification for taking out =
the others is pretty thin. True, not <span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=
=3D"font-style: italic;">every</span>=C2=A0artist, filmmaker, musician or a=
thlete
 active in modern Romania has been an ethnic Romanian, but these fields <sp=
an class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-style: italic;">are</span>=C2=
=A0intrinsically linked to Romanian culture, especially art and music. As f=
or religion, he's partly right: there are two Romanian churches, so what we=
 should do is -</div><div>Religion ([[Romanian Orthodox Church|Orthodox]]=
=C2=A0<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: -webkit-sans-s=
erif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 19px; ">=E2=80=A2 [[<span class=3D"Appl=
e-style-span" style=3D"font-family: arial; font-size: 13px; line-height: no=
rmal; ">Romanian Church United with Rome, Greek-Catholic|Greek-Catholic]]).=
</span></span></div></td></tr></table><br>=0A=0A=0A=0A      
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