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Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 05:54:18 +0200
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From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview:  "Is describing these events "anti-Ukrainian"? Is
	describing Holocaust "anti-German"?" Tymek, while the events were
	certainly tragic they are not comparable to Holocaust. By making such
	comparisions you are inflaming the discussion. [...] 
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Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and others.
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 "Is describing these events "anti-Ukrainian"? Is describing Holocaust
"anti-German"?"

Tymek, while the events were certainly tragic they are not comparable
to Holocaust. By making such comparisions you are inflaming the
discussion.

2009/8/3 piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>:
> Oh come on. Just write an article about Pacifikacija, whatever it is. I w=
ill
> read it with interest. Also, if murdering almost 1000 civilians in one da=
y,
> as in Wola Ostrowiecka and Ostrowki, is a petty thing, then I do not real=
ly
> know what you see as worth mentioning.
>
> Is describing=A0these events=A0"anti-Ukrainian"? Is describing Holocaust
> "anti-German"?
>
> Tymek
>
> --- On Sun, 8/2/09, O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> From: O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>
> Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and others.
> To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 10:11 PM
>
>
> I knew someone will take my hyposis about Russian interest in this
> personally. Apparently you have a lot to learn about UPA and AK and their
> activities. No one is trying to whitewash the UPA, they did what they did.
> There is hardly a force in WWII who didn't commit objectionable acts. That
> goes for AK in particular, which massacred up to 20,000 Ukrainians in
> reprisal killings. http://web.ku.edu/~eceurope/hist557/lect17.htm
>
> This must be a thing with some Poles to piss and moan about every little
> thing someone caused them. There are several anti-Ukrainian articles about
> UPA atrocities, The Volhyn Massacre is jus an example of the egregeous, o=
ne
> sided anti-Ukrainian rant. If you are so concerned about the truth, why n=
ot
> write an article on Pacifikacija? Or this is not part of the Polish histo=
ry?
> Or you conveniently prefer to turn a blind eye to it? Start from there...
>
>
> --- On Mon, 8/3/09, piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> From: piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and others.
>> To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
>> Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 9:34 AM
>> Oh yes, I am one of these persons
>> financed by the Russians. They=A0have paid me 50
>> Belarusian rubles, since paying in Russian currency would be
>> too obvious, and they wanted to keep it a secret.
>>
>> OK, let us be serious here. Ukrainian Insurgent Army
>> commited atrocities on a large scale, in fact killing Polish
>> civilians was the main activity of this organization for
>> several months. Polish Home Army did commit crimes, but it
>> never planned extermination of Polish minorities, not to
>> mention carrying out such a plan.
>>
>> UIA is regarded as heroes in Western Ukraine only, and
>> also there older generations call them bandits, as this
>> organization terrorized Ukrainians, and also killed
>> thousands of their fellow countrymen, those who did not want
>> to cooperate/kill their Polish neighbors, just look at the
>> fate of Bulba-Borovets. There are Ukrainian sources which
>> support what I have written. I am shocked that the great
>> nation of Ukraine cannot find different role models than
>> Roman Skuhevych, leader of Sluzba Bezpeky, one of the most
>> murderous and fanatical organizations of WW2.
>>
>> It is interesting that the Ukrainian side frequently
>> mentions atrocities commited by the Poles in Volhynia, but I
>> have not seen a single description of these massacres with a
>> date and a location.
>>
>> Tymek
>>
>>
>> --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Piotr Konieczny
>> <piokon@post.pl> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Piotr Konieczny <piokon@post.pl>
>> Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and
>> others.
>> To: "Wikipedia statistics"
>> <folks@wikipedometer.net>
>> Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 6:42 PM
>>
>>
>> O. G. wrote:
>> > But in spite of that, for millions of Ukrainians UPA
>> always will be heroes, because they fought for the freedom
>> of their country.
>>
>> One men's terrorist is another men's hero, and
>> there is no denying that.
>> This is also an attitude of many Lithuanian editors, and
>> presumably a
>> sentiment shared more widely among the eastern countries. I
>> can
>> understand and I cannot blame those who after Soviet
>> repression saw
>> German Nazis as liberators. They couldn't know what was
>> really going on.
>>
>> Still, one should be able to admit one made a mistake. Just
>> as Poles
>> should (and in some instances, did) apologize for the
>> exceptional but
>> real massacres committed by AK and other Poles
>> (Jedwabne...), so should
>> those who threw their lot in with the Nazis and worked with
>> them
>> apologize for all the suffering that they caused.
>>
>> Bottom line is that there is no white and black, there are
>> always
>>=A0 shades
>> of gray (but shades that can be sometimes compared!), and
>> we have to
>> admit that many heroes were also, at the same time,
>> criminals.
>>
>> > PS I wouldn't be surprised if Russia were
>> clandestinely financing people in Poland bringing this issue
>> over and over again. Just a guess...
>>
>> Good point, again. Let's not loose the sight of the
>> bigger picture.
>>
>> --
>> Piotr Konieczny
>>
>> "The problem about Wikipedia is, that it just works in
>> reality, not in
>> theory."
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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