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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 09:18:06 -0400
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From: Andrei Dombay <wikibiophys@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview: Would not work. "*The "right to vanish" is not a
	"right to a fresh start" under a new identity."
	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Vanish * On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at
	4:15 AM, Digwuren <digwuren@gmail.com> wrote: [...] 
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Subject: Re: [WPM] Jehochmann and Piotrus
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	Content preview:  Would not work. "*The "right to vanish" is not a "right
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	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Vanish * On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at
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Would not work. "*The "right to vanish" is not a "right to a fresh start"
under a new identity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Vanish

*
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 4:15 AM, Digwuren <digwuren@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 08:56, <PetersJV@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>  Ultimately such a ban could not stand if implemented. Our editing is
>> based on reputable schoarship of "nationalist" and western sources, we a=
re
>> not a cult nor writing about a cult. I can see where, however, based on =
J's
>> interview I came across, that J. and perhaps others are loaded for bear =
and
>> will only be satisfied if they can empty all barrels to their satisfacti=
on.
>> As there is no due process on Wikipedia, we need to (a) tread carefully =
and
>> (b) have a contingency plan should a widely applied ban occur and we nee=
d to
>> exercise the "nuclear option" whatever we determine that to be.
>>
>
> Some of us might have to vanish and create new accounts.  Molobo is alrea=
dy
> on this row.
>
> In order to make sure the new accounts will fare better, we'll need to po=
ol
> our encyclop=E6dic knowledge so *everybody* of us can edit a wide area of
> topics on Wikipedia, displaying a wide area of interests and reducing the
> risk that somebody might call us "ethnic cabals".  I figure that it could=
 be
> done by maintaining improved versions of interesting (in a wide range of
> topics) articles in an outside Wikipedia, so whenever somebody needs to
> improve a Wikipedia article, he can take bits and pieces and just copy th=
em
> to Wikipedia.  (Incidentally, another of the numerous perverse incentives=
 of
> Wikipedia is that you can dismiss 3RR if your edits are seen as gradual
> improvements, but if you installed the whole, better, article in a single
> go, you wouldn't be able to revert to it more than twice.)
>
> I'm currently investigating the MediaWiki angle recommended by Piotrus.
>
> Furthermore, some sort of automated revert tracking might be useful.
>
> In order to be able to neutralise the Cartel, we'll need admins.  Whateve=
r
> is on the Path to Nuclear Option in short term, in long term, we should b=
e
> able to field at least half a dozen administrators with, at best,
> insignificant demonstrable interest in anything the Cartel cares about, s=
o
> they will be able to block and ban the disruptive Cartel members.  One
> administrator will not do; the Cartel has multiple administrators already=
,
> and if we only have one, there will be admindramu.  (Again, remember that
> among the numerous perverse incentives of Wikipedia is that dramu is
> harmful, so administrators tend to avoid it.  Which means that admins
> usually only get involved in hard cases if they have a particular bias th=
ey
> want to support.  Not always a content bias; it can be a loyalty bias.)
>
> --
> Andres Soolo
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> folks@wikipedometer.net
> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>
>

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Would not work. &quot;<b>The &quot;right to vanish&quot; is not a &quot;rig=
ht to a fresh start&quot; under a new identity.&quot; <br><br><a href=3D"ht=
tp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Vanish">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W=
ikipedia:Vanish</a><br>
<br></b><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 4:15 AM, Dig=
wuren <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:digwuren@gmail.com">digwuren@=
gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; p=
adding-left: 1ex;">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"im">On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 08:56,=
  <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:PetersJV@aol.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">PetersJV@aol.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt=
 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">





<div style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial;"><f=
ont color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><div>
<div>
<div>Ultimately such a ban could not stand if implemented. Our editing is b=
ased=20
on reputable schoarship of &quot;nationalist&quot; and western sources, we =
are not a cult=20
nor writing about a cult. I can see where, however, based on J&#39;s interv=
iew I=20
came across, that J. and perhaps others are loaded for bear and will only b=
e=20
satisfied if they can empty all barrels to their satisfaction. As there is =
no=20
due process on Wikipedia, we need to (a) tread carefully and (b) have a=20
contingency plan should a widely applied ban occur and we need to exercise =
the=20
&quot;nuclear option&quot; whatever we determine that to be.</div></div></d=
iv></font></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>Some of us might hav=
e to vanish and create new accounts. =A0Molobo is already on this row.</div=
>
<div>
<br></div><div>In order to make sure the new accounts will fare better, we&=
#39;ll need to pool our encyclop=E6dic knowledge so *everybody* of us can e=
dit a wide area of topics on Wikipedia, displaying a wide area of interests=
 and reducing the risk that somebody might call us &quot;ethnic cabals&quot=
;. =A0I figure that it could be done by maintaining improved versions of in=
teresting (in a wide range of topics) articles in an outside Wikipedia, so =
whenever somebody needs to improve a Wikipedia article, he can take bits an=
d pieces and just copy them to Wikipedia. =A0(Incidentally, another of the =
numerous perverse incentives of Wikipedia is that you can dismiss 3RR if yo=
ur edits are seen as gradual improvements, but if you installed the whole, =
better, article in a single go, you wouldn&#39;t be able to revert to it mo=
re than twice.)</div>

<div><br></div><div>I&#39;m currently investigating the MediaWiki angle rec=
ommended by Piotrus.</div><div><br></div><div>Furthermore, some sort of aut=
omated revert tracking might be useful.</div><div><br></div><div>In order t=
o be able to neutralise the Cartel, we&#39;ll need admins. =A0Whatever is o=
n the Path to Nuclear Option in short term, in long term, we should be able=
 to field at least half a dozen administrators with, at best, insignificant=
 demonstrable interest in anything the Cartel cares about, so they will be =
able to block and ban the disruptive Cartel members. =A0One administrator w=
ill not do; the Cartel has multiple administrators already, and if we only =
have one, there will be admindramu. =A0(Again, remember that among the nume=
rous perverse incentives of Wikipedia is that dramu is harmful, so administ=
rators tend to avoid it. =A0Which means that admins usually only get involv=
ed in hard cases if they have a particular bias they want to support. =A0No=
t always a content bias; it can be a loyalty bias.)</div>

<div><br></div></div><font color=3D"#888888">-- <br>Andres Soolo<br>
</font><br>_______________________________________________<br>
Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a><br>
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=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br>

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