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Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 16:44:38 +0300
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From: Dorin Cheptea <dorin.cheptea@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview: > Just in case: does this mean that English teachers
	tend to find more lucrative positions > overseas, which leads only old
	and unskilled English teachers to teach English in > Moldovan schools?
	Define unskilled... Formal education, like auditing courses is not
	enough. You have to learn something and to practice it in order to be a
	good, even an average professional. I can't explain exactly the reasons
	of the current disastrous situation, but I believe there are more than
	one reasons at play. I have seen how people speak English in Denmark,
	and there won't be anything similar in Moldova even in 30 years... You
	see my poor English, right? Even with that, I would be better than an
	average English teacher in Moldova. What else can I say?... How much
	media in English? 3-5% at most... [...] 
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Subject: Re: [WPM] Illythr
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	Content preview:  > Just in case: does this mean that English teachers
	tend to find more lucrative positions > overseas, which leads only old
	and unskilled English teachers to teach English in > Moldovan schools?
	Define unskilled... Formal education, like auditing courses is not
	enough. You have to learn something and to practice it in order to be a
	good, even an average professional. I can't explain exactly the reasons
	of the current disastrous situation, but I believe there are more than
	one reasons at play. I have seen how people speak English in Denmark,
	and there won't be anything similar in Moldova even in 30 years... You
	see my poor English, right? Even with that, I would be better than an
	average English teacher in Moldova. What else can I say?... How much
	media in English? 3-5% at most... [...] 
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> Just in case: does this mean that English teachers tend to find more
lucrative positions
> overseas, which leads only old and unskilled English teachers to teach
English in
> Moldovan schools?

Define unskilled... Formal education, like auditing courses is not enough.
You have to learn something and to practice it in order to be a good, even
an average professional. I can't explain exactly the reasons of the current
disastrous situation, but I believe there are more than one reasons at play=
.
I have seen how people speak English in Denmark, and there won't be anythin=
g
similar in Moldova even in 30 years... You see my poor English, right? Even
with that, I would be better than an average English teacher in Moldova.
What else can I say?... How much media in English? 3-5% at most...

> But if such dynamics would be at play in Moldova for extended time, it
would be easy to
> see how the education issues cascade into industrial and commercial
issues, and
> eventually lead to slow economy :-(
The general Bologna bullshit (excuse my expression, please) is also a
reason.

> Even in Soviet topics, he doesn't tend to do knee-jerk stuff like, say,
Russavia.  Wikipedia
> would stand a chance of actually working if there were more people like
Illythr, no matter
> their pet views.

> As for Illthyr, I agree, seems to be generally a
> reasonable user, somewhat resembling Mikkalai (though the latter had
> strong pro-Soviet views on Romania). Others you can easily cooperate
> with include Ezhiki (Barbatus has lamentably been by-and-large
> inactive now for years).

Illythr and Russavia are different categories altogether. I have excellent
relations with Illythr, have productively colaborated with him on many
occasions. Problems in a couple articles shoult be atributed to my lack of
work first of all, and only after to his ostalgia. Ezhiki is IMHO a typical
Russian patriot with no negative conotations. Him being educated and civil,
it's easy to communicate with him, too. I think I introduced Ezhiki to
Illythr. The more Illythr hangs out with people like himself and less with
team USSR, the better.

> Hm, I always thought Moldopodo was a linguist or translator: how come
> he knows so many languages at advanced level (see his userpage history
> in ru.wiki).

He used online translators. If you read more carefully say his French
translations you'd notice that. If you are really interested who he is:
http://www.beltsy.md/sedoi.php

> However, also note that ethnicity is not always the most important
> factor in determining one's political allegiances: Irpen claimed to be
> Ukrainian and Grafikmfr a Fenchman (though he seemed to be descendant
> of Russian emigr=E9s). Most Ukrainians I know in wiki are very
> reasonable (I'd suggest inviting someone to the list, one day).
Exactly, ethnicity has nothing to do with political rampage. BTW, Moldopodo
is as Ukrainian as [[Mikhail Frunze]] Romanian. That implies nothing about
their activity in life.

I certainly would be glad to meet more Ukrainian editors. Frankly speaking,
I haven't interacted with many Ukrainians on WP. Perhaps because I wasn't
interested in topics they edit. I interacted briefly, but very positively,
with DDima, although I think he is ethnic Russian from Ukraine. Whatever.
You see, Moldovan topics are so underdeveloped in WP that I simply have no
time to even read 1-2 Ukrainian topics. I guess Ukrainians have similar
issues, only that they have no time to read Moldovan and Romanian topics..
Please correct me, but I was under the impression that we already have one
Ukrainian among us. Obvioulsy, I would be very glad to have many more. It's
a rather large country to have just one or none.

> zatochka

I believe it comes from the verb *tochit' =3D* sharpening by abrasion.

> There are also huge mentality shifts. I was really surprised meeting here
a SKINHEAD
> POSTDOC from Russia (naturally, with a shaven head) who said he would kil=
l
himself a
> person or two, but he needs some additional training to do this well (he
worked a lot to
> improve his physical conditions). He did not hide his intention to learn =
a
couple of useful
> bacteriology techniques in the US to use them for the military might of
his Fatherland.
> Otherwise, he was a very nice and sincere person (strange, is not it?).
He returned back
> to Russia after working here for a while. He slept on a bare mattress and
considered
> himself almost a traitor, as long as he was in the enemy citadel... I did
not see anything
> like that in the Soviet times.

 A small [[Reinhad Heydrich]] in the making, huh?
 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhard_Heydrich>
Dorin

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<div>&gt; Just in case: does this mean that English teachers tend to find m=
ore lucrative positions </div>
<div>&gt; overseas, which leads only old and unskilled English teachers to =
teach English in </div>
<div>&gt; Moldovan schools?</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Define unskilled... Formal education, like auditing courses is not eno=
ugh. You have to learn something and to practice it in order to be a good, =
even an average=A0professional. I can&#39;t explain exactly the reasons of =
the current disastrous situation, but I believe there are more than one rea=
sons=A0at play. I have seen how people speak English in Denmark, and there =
won&#39;t be anything similar in Moldova even in 30 years... You see my poo=
r English, right?=A0Even with that, I would be better than an average Engli=
sh teacher in Moldova. What else can=A0I say?...=A0How much media in Englis=
h? 3-5% at most...</div>

<div><br>&gt; But if such dynamics would be at play in Moldova for extended=
 time, it would be easy to </div>
<div>&gt; see how the education issues cascade into industrial and commerci=
al issues, and </div>
<div>&gt; eventually lead to slow economy :-(<br></div>
<div>The general Bologna=A0bullshit (excuse my expression, please)=A0is als=
o a reason.</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>&gt; Even in Soviet topics, he doesn&#39;t tend to do knee-jerk stuff =
like, say, Russavia.=A0 Wikipedia </div>
<div>&gt; would stand a chance of actually working if there were more peopl=
e like Illythr, no matter </div>
<div>&gt; their pet views.</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>&gt; As for Illthyr, I agree, seems to be generally a<br>&gt; reasonab=
le user, somewhat resembling Mikkalai (though the latter had<br>&gt; strong=
 pro-Soviet views on Romania). Others you can easily cooperate<br>&gt; with=
 include Ezhiki (Barbatus has lamentably been by-and-large<br>
&gt; inactive now for years).</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Illythr and Russavia are different categories altogether. I have excel=
lent relations with Illythr, have productively colaborated with him on many=
 occasions.=A0Problems=A0in a couple articles shoult be atributed to my lac=
k of work first of all, and only after to his ostalgia.=A0Ezhiki is IMHO a =
typical Russian patriot with no negative conotations. Him being educated an=
d civil, it&#39;s easy to communicate with him, too.=A0I think I introduced=
 Ezhiki to Illythr. The more Illythr hangs out with people like himself and=
 less with team USSR, the better.</div>

<div>=A0</div>
<div>&gt; Hm, I always thought Moldopodo was a linguist or translator: how =
come<br>&gt; he knows so many languages at advanced level (see his userpage=
 history<br>&gt; in ru.wiki). </div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>He used online translators. If you read more carefully say his French =
translations you&#39;d notice that. If you are really interested who he is:=
 <a href=3D"http://www.beltsy.md/sedoi.php">http://www.beltsy.md/sedoi.php<=
/a></div>

<div>=A0</div>
<div>&gt; However, also note that ethnicity is not always the most importan=
t<br>&gt; factor in determining one&#39;s political allegiances: Irpen clai=
med to be<br>&gt; Ukrainian and Grafikmfr a Fenchman (though he seemed to b=
e descendant<br>
&gt; of Russian emigr=E9s). Most Ukrainians I know in wiki are very<br>&gt;=
 reasonable (I&#39;d suggest inviting someone to the list, one day).<br><fo=
nt color=3D"#888888"></font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#888888"></font>Exactly, ethnicity has nothing to do wi=
th political rampage. BTW, Moldopodo is as Ukrainian as [[Mikhail Frunze]] =
Romanian. That implies nothing about their activity in life.<br>=A0<br>I ce=
rtainly would be glad to meet more Ukrainian editors. Frankly speaking, I h=
aven&#39;t interacted with many Ukrainians on WP. Perhaps because I wasn&#3=
9;t interested in topics they edit. I interacted briefly, but very positive=
ly, with DDima, although I think he is ethnic Russian from Ukraine. Whateve=
r. You see, Moldovan topics are so underdeveloped in WP that I simply have =
no time to even read 1-2 Ukrainian topics. I guess Ukrainians have similar =
issues, only that they have no time to read Moldovan and Romanian topics<fo=
nt color=3D"#888888">..<br>
</font></div>
<div>Please correct me, but I was under the impression that we already have=
 one Ukrainian among us. Obvioulsy, I would be very glad to have many more.=
 It&#39;s a rather large country to have just one or none.</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>&gt; zatochka</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>I believe it comes from the verb <em>tochit&#39; =3D</em> sharpening b=
y abrasion.</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>&gt; There are also huge mentality shifts. I was really surprised meet=
ing here a SKINHEAD </div>
<div>&gt; POSTDOC from Russia (naturally, with a shaven head) who said he w=
ould kill himself a </div>
<div>&gt; person or two, but he needs some additional training to do this w=
ell (he worked a lot to </div>
<div>&gt; improve his physical conditions). He did not hide his intention t=
o learn a couple of useful </div>
<div>&gt; bacteriology techniques in the US to use them for the military mi=
ght of his Fatherland. </div>
<div>&gt; Otherwise, he was a very nice and sincere person (strange, is not=
 it?).=A0 He returned back </div>
<div>&gt; to Russia after working here for a while. He slept on a bare matt=
ress and considered </div>
<div>&gt; himself almost a traitor, as long as he was in the enemy citadel.=
.. I did not see anything </div>
<div>&gt; like that in the Soviet times. </div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>A small [[Reinhad Heydrich]] in the making, huh? </div>
<div><a class=3D"l" onmousedown=3D"return clk(this.href,&#39;&#39;,&#39;&#3=
9;,&#39;res&#39;,&#39;1&#39;,&#39;&amp;sig2=3D0fsW-LTRN0_8az_m514rUQ&#39;)"=
 href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhard_Heydrich"><font color=3D"#22=
00cc" size=3D"4"></font></a>=A0</div>

<div>Dorin<br></div></div>

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