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Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 04:27:42 +0300
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From: Dorin Cheptea <dorin.cheptea@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview:  Yes, Dahn is the most prolific Romanian editor. But he
	is also often an a** hole, because he is full of hypocrisy when it comes
	to some issues (especially politically left), and also very, actually
	super- egocentric. He won't deem you worth his time unless you prove to
	him you have read a lot. But on the positive side he is actually well
	read and well informed (on the issues he cares about). I can compare
	him
	with a hard-core Democrat, which will never vote anything that remotely
	smells Republican, but can be persuaded if you talk honestly about the
	issue rather than who's issue it is. Nevertheless, his blames of Vasile
	Alecsandri and Alexandru Vaida-Voevod as anti-Semite are propostourous.
	These guys are like Jeffersons for Romania. And there can be no
	comparison between Jefferson's heritage for the mankind and Jefferson
	owing his servants as slaves. My relationship with Dahn started
	negatively: I attacked him in revenge for him taking a newbe Romanian
	editor to AN/I and permaban. After 2 months he said he is ready to work
	with me on issue by issue provided I give him satisfaction (he said my
	attack damaged his reputation, which is a Holy Grail, of course). I
	answered him that I would be more than delighted to work with him on
	issue by issue, and even acknowledge my attack was too much, but that I
	consider I was right and he was wrong on the question in dispute, that
	we can talk about it in a civilized manner, but not that I somehow
	changed my mind about the issue, and that he should change it.
	Miraculously, my answer had on Dahn the effect that he is collaborating
	very well with me for the last 2 years. [...] 
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Subject: Re: [WPM] More cabal theory
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	Content preview:  Yes, Dahn is the most prolific Romanian editor. But he
	is also often an a** hole, because he is full of hypocrisy when it comes
	to some issues (especially politically left), and also very, actually
	super- egocentric. He won't deem you worth his time unless you prove to
	him you have read a lot. But on the positive side he is actually well
	read and well informed (on the issues he cares about). I can compare him
	with a hard-core Democrat, which will never vote anything that remotely
	smells Republican, but can be persuaded if you talk honestly about the
	issue rather than who's issue it is. Nevertheless, his blames of Vasile
	Alecsandri and Alexandru Vaida-Voevod as anti-Semite are propostourous.
	These guys are like Jeffersons for Romania. And there can be no
	comparison between Jefferson's heritage for the mankind and Jefferson
	owing his servants as slaves. My relationship with Dahn started
	negatively: I attacked him in revenge for him taking a newbe Romanian
	editor to AN/I and permaban. After 2 months he said he is ready to work
	with me on issue by issue provided I give him satisfaction (he said my
	attack damaged his reputation, which is a Holy Grail, of course). I
	answered him that I would be more than delighted to work with him on
	issue by issue, and even acknowledge my attack was too much, but that I
	consider I was right and he was wrong on the question in dispute, that
	we can talk about it in a civilized manner, but not that I somehow
	changed my mind about the issue, and that he should change it.
	Miraculously, my answer had on Dahn the effect that he is collaborating
	very well with me for the last 2 years. [...] 
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Yes, Dahn is the most prolific Romanian editor. But he is also often an a**
hole, because he is full of hypocrisy when it comes to some issues
(especially politically left), and also very, actually super- egocentric. He
won't deem you worth his time unless you prove to him you have read a lot.
But on the positive side he is actually well read and well informed (on the
issues he cares about). I can compare him with a hard-core Democrat, which
will never vote anything that remotely smells Republican, but can be
persuaded if you talk honestly about the issue rather than who's issue it
is. Nevertheless, his blames of Vasile Alecsandri and Alexandru Vaida-Voevod
as anti-Semite are propostourous. These guys are like Jeffersons for
Romania. And there can be no comparison between Jefferson's heritage for the
mankind and Jefferson owing his servants as slaves.
My relationship with Dahn started negatively: I attacked him in revenge for
him taking a newbe Romanian editor to AN/I and permaban. After 2 months he
said he is ready to work with me on issue by issue provided I give him
satisfaction (he said my attack damaged his reputation, which is a Holy
Grail, of course). I answered him that I would be more than delighted to
work with him on issue by issue, and even acknowledge my attack was too
much, but that I consider I was right and he was wrong on the question in
dispute, that we can talk about it in a civilized manner, but not that I
somehow changed my mind about the issue, and that he should change it.
Miraculously, my answer had on Dahn the effect that he is collaborating very
well with me for the last 2 years.

So I recommend the same strategy if you ever deal with him: be very
respectful and forthcoming, but keep your ground on the issue. (And
especially with Dahn, don't defend issues about which you are not certain
the ground is solid, i.e. don't defend slippery issues, but be more wise and
resilient, and defend only those aspects of the slippery issue which are
solid.)

I would fully support a recommendation to invite two Romanian editors:

Dpotop
MariusM

provided they want to join (and are WP active). I know their real life
identities, and can vouch for them, although I haven't talked recently with
them.

I would also support Kober from Georgia.

K. Lastochka and Istvan from Hungary are very good. With KIBD, I had some
small Hungarian-Romanian issues, but everything was resolved very civilized.
But she (I think is a she, not totally sure) is not so active and not
involved in Soviet topics. Squash Racket does not inspire my trust, and not
only because of what Christian said; there is a whole history there. Never
interacted with Slovaks on WP. Instrestingly that in real life I basically
don't know any Hungarian, but I have at least one very good Slovak friend.

Although I have nothing against them, and am generally neutral in these
(real-life) disputes, I am a little bit worry if we are to bring in
Bulgarians, Greeks, Turks, Azeris or Armenians. (Macedonians as well, but
that's an empty set.) Even with Serbs and Croatians - needs careful
consideration. To what extent is these individuals' main problem team USSR?
If their main problem is fighting their national conflicts - oo-oo! - they
can sell us off in a blink of an eye for mentioning of forgetting to mention
Armenian genocide or something like that.

Remember, this "cabal" is not about being politically right or left, not
about defending one nation's interests against another (we can all do that
on our own), but about combating Soviet propaganda. Against pro-Putin
propaganda - yes, mentioning Tataro-Mongol heritage when it comes to the way
politics and public administration is done - ok, but not against Russia par
se, and not against somebody just because they are proud to be Russians. For
example: I would strongly support mentioning anti-Semitism of Shafarevich
and Kolmogorov in their articles, and other not at all nice things they have
done, but at the same time they left an impossibly to deny positive trace in
their professional areas. (not impecable, that's also true)

Central Asia is a soft spot for team USSR, I agree. Is there anything we can
do to exploit it? Do you know any active editor about that area? Not
necessarily from there.

Dorin

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Yes, Dahn is the most prolific Romanian editor. But he is also often an a**=
 hole, because he is full of hypocrisy when it comes to some issues (especi=
ally politically left), and also very, actually super- egocentric. He won&#=
39;t deem you worth his time unless you prove to him you have read a lot. B=
ut on the positive side he is actually well read and well informed (on the =
issues he cares about). I can compare him with a hard-core Democrat, which =
will never vote anything that remotely smells Republican, but can be persua=
ded if you talk honestly about the issue rather than who&#39;s issue it is.=
 Nevertheless, his blames of Vasile Alecsandri and Alexandru Vaida-Voevod a=
s anti-Semite are propostourous. These guys are like Jeffersons for Romania=
. And there can be no comparison between Jefferson&#39;s heritage for the m=
ankind and Jefferson owing his servants as slaves. =A0<div>
<br></div><div>My relationship with Dahn started negatively: I attacked him=
 in revenge for him taking a newbe Romanian editor to AN/I and permaban. Af=
ter 2 months he said he is ready to work with me on issue by issue provided=
 I give him satisfaction (he said my attack damaged his reputation, which i=
s a Holy Grail, of course). I answered him that I would be more than deligh=
ted to work with him on issue by issue, and even acknowledge my attack was =
too much, but that I consider I was right and he was wrong on the question =
in dispute, that we can talk about it in a civilized manner, but not that I=
 somehow changed my mind about the issue, and that he should change it. Mir=
aculously, my answer had on Dahn the effect that he is collaborating very w=
ell with me for the last 2 years.=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>So I recommend the same strategy if you ever deal with =
him: be very respectful and forthcoming, but keep your ground on the issue.=
 (And especially with Dahn, don&#39;t defend issues about which you are not=
 certain the ground is solid, i.e. don&#39;t defend slippery issues, but be=
 more wise and resilient, and defend only those aspects of the slippery iss=
ue which are solid.)</div>
<div><br></div><div>I would fully support a recommendation to invite two Ro=
manian editors:</div><div><br></div><div>Dpotop=A0</div><div>MariusM</div><=
div><br></div><div>provided they want to join (and are WP active). I know t=
heir real life identities, and can vouch for them, although I haven&#39;t t=
alked recently with them.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I would also support Kober from Georgia.</div><div><br>=
</div><div>K. Lastochka and=A0Istvan from Hungary are very good. With KIBD,=
 I had some small Hungarian-Romanian issues, but everything was resolved ve=
ry civilized. But she (I think is a she, not totally sure) is not so active=
 and not involved in Soviet topics. Squash Racket does not inspire my trust=
, and not only because of what Christian said; there is a whole history the=
re. Never interacted with Slovaks on WP. Instrestingly that in real life I =
basically don&#39;t know any Hungarian, but I have at least one very good S=
lovak friend.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Although I have nothing against them, and am generally =
neutral in these (real-life) disputes, I am a little bit worry if we are to=
 bring in Bulgarians, Greeks, Turks, Azeris or Armenians. (Macedonians as w=
ell, but that&#39;s an empty set.) Even with Serbs and Croatians - needs ca=
reful consideration. To what extent is these individuals&#39; main problem =
team USSR? If their main problem is fighting their national conflicts - oo-=
oo! - they can sell us off in a blink of an eye for mentioning of forgettin=
g to mention Armenian genocide or something like that.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Remember, this &quot;cabal&quot; is not about being pol=
itically right or left, not about defending one nation&#39;s interests agai=
nst another (we can all do that on our own), but about combating Soviet pro=
paganda. Against pro-Putin propaganda - yes, mentioning Tataro-Mongol herit=
age when it comes to the way politics and public administration is done - o=
k, but not against Russia par se, and not against somebody just because the=
y are proud to be Russians. For example: I would strongly support mentionin=
g anti-Semitism of Shafarevich and Kolmogorov in their articles, and other =
not at all nice things they have done, but at the same time they left an im=
possibly to deny positive trace in their professional areas. (not impecable=
, that&#39;s also true)</div>
<div><br></div><div>Central Asia is a soft spot for team USSR, I agree. Is =
there anything we can do to exploit it? Do you know any active editor about=
 that area? Not necessarily from there.</div><div><br></div><div>Dorin</div=
>

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