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Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 00:36:26 +0300
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From: Dorin Cheptea <dorin.cheptea@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview:  Obviously,
	I am not going to undermine the disussion in
	WP, but don't you think it should be *Forced *population transfer(s)?
	Even the population transfer between Greece and Turkey in 1923, which is
	nowhere near in coercion and brutality to what happened after WWII, is
	often adjectivized with "forced". It is a fact that Poles were expulsed
	from Kresy, as well as Germans were expulsed from lands east of the
	Oder-Neisse line. I am not talking about the initial refugees, of which
	were also hundreds of thousands, I mean that eventually everyone was
	forced to leave based on ethnic group. I am not saying that those
	territories were inhabited only by Poles, resp. Germans. In fact, in
	some situations, these were in minority. And it is clear that not the
	locals of other ethnic groups were the planners of these forced
	movements. We all know the perpetrators: Soviets and Soviet puppets.
	And
	I am not passing any judgement on the historical ethnic composition of
	those territories in middle ages, etc, etc. But still, expulsion is
	expulsion. Personally, I think "population transfer" is incorrect. At
	least, the word "forced" has to be added. I am not so knowleadgeable in
	this area, but beware not to add water to the wheel of the Soviet
	defenders. Next thing they will want to call the deportations simple
	population transfers, tourist visits to Siberia, Altai, northern
	Kazakhstan, Far East. Dorin [...] 
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Subject: Re: [WPM] Renaming to population transfer
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	Content preview:  Obviously, I am not going to undermine the disussion in
	WP, but don't you think it should be *Forced *population transfer(s)?
	Even the population transfer between Greece and Turkey in 1923, which is
	nowhere near in coercion and brutality to what happened after WWII, is
	often adjectivized with "forced". It is a fact that Poles were expulsed
	from Kresy, as well as Germans were expulsed from lands east of the
	Oder-Neisse line. I am not talking about the initial refugees, of which
	were also hundreds of thousands, I mean that eventually everyone was
	forced to leave based on ethnic group. I am not saying that those
	territories were inhabited only by Poles, resp. Germans. In fact, in
	some situations, these were in minority. And it is clear that not the
	locals of other ethnic groups were the planners of these forced
	movements. We all know the perpetrators: Soviets and Soviet puppets. And
	I am not passing any judgement on the historical ethnic composition of
	those territories in middle ages, etc, etc. But still, expulsion is
	expulsion. Personally, I think "population transfer" is incorrect. At
	least, the word "forced" has to be added. I am not so knowleadgeable in
	this area, but beware not to add water to the wheel of the Soviet
	defenders. Next thing they will want to call the deportations simple
	population transfers, tourist visits to Siberia, Altai, northern
	Kazakhstan, Far East. Dorin [...] 
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Obviously, I am not going to undermine the disussion in WP, but don't you
think it should be *Forced *population transfer(s)? Even the population
transfer between Greece and Turkey in 1923, which is nowhere near in
coercion and brutality to what happened after WWII, is often adjectivized
with "forced". It is a fact that Poles were expulsed from Kresy, as well as
Germans were expulsed from lands east of the Oder-Neisse line. I am not
talking about the initial refugees, of which were also hundreds of
thousands, I mean that eventually everyone was forced to leave based on
ethnic group. I am not saying that those territories were inhabited only by
Poles, resp. Germans. In fact, in some situations, these were in minority.
And it is clear that not the locals of other ethnic groups were the planners
of these forced movements. We all know the perpetrators: Soviets and Soviet
puppets. And I am not passing any judgement on the historical ethnic
composition of those territories in middle ages, etc, etc. But still,
expulsion is expulsion. Personally, I think "population transfer" is
incorrect. At least, the word "forced" has to be added. I am not so
knowleadgeable in this area, but beware not to add water to the wheel of the
Soviet defenders. Next thing they will want to call the deportations simple
population transfers, tourist visits to Siberia, Altai, northern Kazakhstan,
Far East.    Dorin

2009/7/13 Piotr Konieczny <piokon@post.pl>

> I've started and widely advertised the discussion here:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:World_War_II_evacuation_and_expulsion#Better_name:_population_transfers
>
> Feel free to comment over the next few days. My proposal is to rename
> all articles to "population transfer" - it's neutral and correct.
>
> --
> Piotr Konieczny
>
> "The problem about Wikipedia is, that it just works in reality, not in
> theory."
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> folks@wikipedometer.net
> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>

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Obviously, I am not going to undermine the disussion in WP, but don&#39;t y=
ou think it should be <i>Forced </i>population transfer(s)? Even the popula=
tion transfer between Greece and Turkey in 1923, which is nowhere near in c=
oercion and brutality to what happened after WWII, is often adjectivized wi=
th &quot;forced&quot;. It is a fact that Poles were expulsed from Kresy, as=
 well as Germans were expulsed from lands east of the Oder-Neisse line. I a=
m not talking about the initial refugees, of which were also hundreds of th=
ousands, I mean that eventually everyone was forced to leave based on ethni=
c group. I am not saying that those territories were inhabited only by Pole=
s, resp. Germans. In fact, in some situations, these were in minority. And =
it is clear that not the locals of other ethnic groups were the planners of=
 these forced movements. We all know the perpetrators: Soviets and Soviet p=
uppets. And I am not passing any judgement on the historical ethnic composi=
tion of those territories in middle ages, etc, etc.=A0But still, expulsion =
is expulsion. Personally, I think &quot;population transfer&quot; is incorr=
ect. At least, the word &quot;forced&quot; has to be added. I am not so kno=
wleadgeable in this area, but beware not to add water to the wheel of the S=
oviet defenders. Next thing they will want to call the deportations simple =
population transfers, tourist visits to Siberia, Altai, northern Kazakhstan=
, Far East. =A0 =A0<div>
Dorin=A0<div><div>=A0<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2009/7/13 Piotr Kon=
ieczny <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;piokon@post.pl&gt;</span><br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex;">
I&#39;ve started and widely advertised the discussion here:<br>
<a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:World_War_II_evacuation_and_ex=
pulsion#Better_name:_population_transfers" target=3D"_blank">http://en.wiki=
pedia.org/wiki/Talk:World_War_II_evacuation_and_expulsion#Better_name:_popu=
lation_transfers</a><br>

<br>
Feel free to comment over the next few days. My proposal is to rename<br>
all articles to &quot;population transfer&quot; - it&#39;s neutral and corr=
ect.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Piotr Konieczny<br>
<br>
&quot;The problem about Wikipedia is, that it just works in reality, not in=
<br>
theory.&quot;<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=
=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>

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