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Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:11:27 +0200
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From: Digwuren <digwuren@gmail.com>
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	Content preview:  On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 06:05, Martin
	<martint20@gmail.com> wrote: > > I note the following signatories: > > *
	Latvijas Antifasistiska komiteja LAK, Josif Koren > > * The Patriotic
	Club â€?Witezâ€?, Julian Wierzbowski, Poland > > * The Association
	â€?Polish Patriotic Leftsâ€?, Tadeusz Szymanski, Poland > > *The
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Subject: Re: [WPM] Signatories to the Helsinki Anti-facsist committee
	manifesto
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	Content preview:  On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 06:05, Martin
	<martint20@gmail.com> wrote: > > I note the following signatories: > > *
	Latvijas Antifasistiska komiteja LAK, Josif Koren > > * The Patriotic
	Club â€?Witezâ€?, Julian Wierzbowski, Poland > > * The Association
	â€?Polish Patriotic Leftsâ€?, Tadeusz Szymanski, Poland > > *The
	National Committee of Soldiers of the PeopleÂ´s Army, Josef > >
	Karbownik, Poland > [...] 
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On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 06:05, Martin <martint20@gmail.com> wrote:

> > I note the following signatories:
> > * Latvijas Antifasistiska komiteja LAK, Josif Koren
> > * The Patriotic Club =E2=80=9DWitez=E2=80=9D, Julian Wierzbowski, Polan=
d
> > * The Association =E2=80=9DPolish Patriotic Lefts=E2=80=9D, Tadeusz Szy=
manski, Poland
> > *The National Committee of Soldiers of the People=C2=B4s Army, Josef
> > Karbownik, Poland
>

I believe we've got an agenda point.

>From this list, it's obvious that there exists a chain of well-organised
"anti-fascist" organisations with pretty much identical agendas throughout
the Russia's European "nearby foreign lands".  However, I had not heard of
any of them, which leads me to suspect that they're designed to cultivate
the image of being small, oppressed, minority movements -- this image usefu=
l
for a lot of media coverage.  I asked around on IRC and it seems likely tha=
t
people in these other countries know very little about the foreign
counterparts of these organisations.

Using Wikipedia's power, and tying these organisations together -- so
everybody interested in one of them will get a taste of the whole chain --
might be useful to neutralise some of that "small oppressed organisation"
media attraction.

I'll see if a friend can publish an article on the whole chain in news
media.  If so, it'd make our job a bit easier from the NOR perspective --
otherwise we'd be restricted to walk the fine line of calling this
phenomenon in some descriptive way, perhaps roughly like "21st century
pro-Soviet organisations in Russia's near abroad".

I found a website for one association, seems pro-Soviet:
> The Patriotic Club =E2=80=9DWitez=E2=80=9D  http://www.witez.pila.pl/


No doubt about that.

There are organisations throughout the world who care about victims and
soldiers of wars, and take care of war graves.  For example, in Estonia,
there's a society that tries to make sure that graves of soldies of all
sides in WWII are properly marked.  (Interestingly, as you might know,
Russia has been in no hurry to enter into a war grave protection treaty wit=
h
Estonia -- that was one of the motivations in passing the War Grave
Protection Act -- so such organisations were main caretakers of Russian
soldiers' graves without bronze statues on them in Estonia, until the
Ministry of Defence became authorised to maintain them.  I believe the
society still plays an active r=C3=B4le, but is now partially funded by the=
 MoD.)

Witez is clearly not such an organisation.  It only cares about Soviet
graves, and makes a clear effort towards Soviet glorification.

Piotrus: you've got the best experience of us in the area of writing
reputable Wikipedia articles, and the best command of Polish language.  How
would you treat Witez?

--=20
Andres Soolo

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<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 06:05, Martin <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:martint20@gmail.com">martint20@gmail.com</a>=
&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0=
 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div class=3D"im">&gt; I note the following signatories:<br>
&gt; * Latvijas Antifasistiska komiteja LAK, Josif Koren<br>
&gt; * The Patriotic Club =E2=80=9DWitez=E2=80=9D, Julian Wierzbowski, Pola=
nd<br>
&gt; * The Association =E2=80=9DPolish Patriotic Lefts=E2=80=9D, Tadeusz Sz=
ymanski, Poland<br>
&gt; *The National Committee of Soldiers of the People=C2=B4s Army, Josef<b=
r>
&gt; Karbownik, Poland</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I believe we&#=
39;ve got an agenda point.</div><div><br></div><div>From this list, it&#39;=
s obvious that there exists a chain of well-organised &quot;anti-fascist&qu=
ot; organisations with pretty much identical agendas throughout the Russia&=
#39;s European &quot;nearby foreign lands&quot;. =C2=A0However, I had not h=
eard of any of them, which leads me to suspect that they&#39;re designed to=
 cultivate the image of being small, oppressed, minority movements -- this =
image useful for a lot of media coverage. =C2=A0I asked around on IRC and i=
t seems likely that people in these other countries know very little about =
the foreign counterparts of these organisations.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Using Wikipedia&#39;s power, and tying these organisati=
ons together -- so everybody interested in one of them will get a taste of =
the whole chain -- might be useful to neutralise some of that &quot;small o=
ppressed organisation&quot; media attraction.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I&#39;ll see if a friend can publish an article on the =
whole chain in news media. =C2=A0If so, it&#39;d make our job a bit easier =
from the NOR perspective -- otherwise we&#39;d be restricted to walk the fi=
ne line of calling this phenomenon in some descriptive way, perhaps roughly=
 like &quot;21st century pro-Soviet organisations in Russia&#39;s near abro=
ad&quot;.</div>
<div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class=3D"im">I found a =
website for one association, seems pro-Soviet:<br></div>
The Patriotic Club =E2=80=9DWitez=E2=80=9D =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.wite=
z.pila.pl/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.witez.pila.pl/</a></blockquote><di=
v><br></div><div>No doubt about that.</div><div><br></div><div>There are or=
ganisations throughout the world who care about victims and soldiers of war=
s, and take care of war graves. =C2=A0For example, in Estonia, there&#39;s =
a society that tries to make sure that graves of soldies of all sides in WW=
II are properly marked. =C2=A0(Interestingly, as you might know, Russia has=
 been in no hurry to enter into a war grave protection treaty with Estonia =
-- that was one of the motivations in passing the War Grave Protection Act =
-- so such organisations were main caretakers of Russian soldiers&#39; grav=
es without bronze statues on them in Estonia, until the Ministry of Defence=
 became authorised to maintain them. =C2=A0I believe the society still play=
s an active r=C3=B4le, but is now partially funded by the MoD.)</div>
<div><br></div><div>Witez is clearly not such an organisation. =C2=A0It onl=
y cares about Soviet graves, and makes a clear effort towards Soviet glorif=
ication.</div><div><br></div><div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D=
"font-weight: bold;">Piotrus:<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font=
-weight: normal;">=C2=A0you&#39;ve got the best experience of us in the are=
a of writing reputable Wikipedia articles, and the best command of Polish l=
anguage. =C2=A0How would you treat Witez?</span></span></div>
<div><br></div><div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-weight: =
bold;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-weight: normal; ">--=
=C2=A0</span></span></div></div>Andres Soolo<br>

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