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Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 20:47:22 +0200
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From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview: *but Nazi he was not. * Who says he was ? :) Being a
	German nationalist doesn't mean being a Nazi....It's a very
	stereotypical view. Nobody says Adenauer wanted to restore Nazi Germany
	either-but then again to cover up that he had complete disregard for
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	Content preview:  *but Nazi he was not. * Who says he was ? :) Being a
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	stereotypical view. Nobody says Adenauer wanted to restore Nazi Germany
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 *but Nazi he was not. *

Who says he was ? :) Being a German nationalist doesn't mean being a
Nazi....It's a very stereotypical view.
Nobody says Adenauer wanted to restore Nazi Germany either-but then again to
cover up that he had complete disregard for pursuing mass murderers of Slavs
and nominated Nazis  responsible for WW2 plans against Slavic people,  for
sake of EU propaganda is another matter.

"Since from German point of view, Adenauer is mainly associated with
positive developments such as the Wirtschaftswunder"

I always wondered what would came of this "wunder" if Germany had to pay war
reperations to Poland (estimated at around 600 billion dollars).

2009/9/2 Digwuren <digwuren@gmail.com>

> On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 19:58, Dorin Cheptea <dorin.cheptea@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Very interesting. Konrad Adenauer has a much more positive image in
>> Romania and Moldova, for example. I believe it is very obvious that many
>> millions of Germans disagreed with Nazis, and did not participate in the
>> horrors committed by that regime. It is complete news to me to hear that
>> Adenauer's policy was an overt Nazi restoration. Obviously, I don't know
>> much about the issue. I am just saying that what I read and heard before
>> gave me a different impression.
>>
>
> It is not quite as simple.  The Three Powers still held a lot of sway in
> West Germany's affairs -- remember, the Allied Occupation Force only had the
> American, English and French zones incorporated into West Germany in spring
> of 1949 -- and they held enough leverage to remove anybody who would have
> overtly restarted advocating "restoration of the glory of the Third Reich".
>  So, even if he had wanted to overtly restore Nazi Germany, he would not
> have succeeded.  Besides, as a political prisoner under Nazi rule, why would
> he?
>
> While Adenauer was a rather complex politician, a common thread in his
> policy was separating Germany's dark history from the (then current)
> present.  It is true that he stepped into questionable waters more than
> once, but Nazi he was not.  (As the Cold War flamed, Soviet propaganda
> attempted to paint him as one, nevertheless.)
>
> Since from German point of view, Adenauer is mainly associated with
> positive developments such as the Wirtschaftswunder, it's no wonder he's
> remembered fondly by Germans.  His track record with international
> relationships is spottier, but -- again -- from German POV, his making up
> with France tends to overshadow his relations with Eastern Europe.
>
> Eighty percent of being a Distinguished Statesman is being in the right
> place at the right time.  Something good will happen every now and then, and
> if you're there, you'll get the credit.  No matter who would have ruled
> Germany after the WWII, he would have made up with France -- but Adenauer
> did, so this inevitable happening is now a testament to *his* stature as a
> statesman.  *C'est la vie...*
>
> --
> Andres Soolo
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> folks@wikipedometer.net
> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>
>

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 <i>but Nazi he was not. </i><br><br>Who says he was ? :) Being a German na=
tionalist doesn&#39;t mean being a Nazi....It&#39;s a very stereotypical vi=
ew.<br>Nobody says Adenauer wanted to restore Nazi Germany either-but then =
again to cover up that he had complete disregard for pursuing mass murderer=
s of Slavs and nominated Nazis=A0 responsible for WW2 plans against Slavic =
people,=A0 for sake of EU propaganda is another matter.<br>
<br>&quot;Since from German point of view, Adenauer is mainly associated wi=
th positive developments such as the Wirtschaftswunder&quot;<br><br>I alway=
s wondered what would came of this &quot;wunder&quot; if Germany had to pay=
 war reperations to Poland (estimated at around 600 billion dollars).<br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2009/9/2 Digwuren <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:digwuren@gmail.com">digwuren@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span><br><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204,=
 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"im">On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 19:58, =
Dorin Cheptea <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dorin.cheptea@gmail.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">dorin.cheptea@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204,=
 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">

<div>Very interesting. Konrad Adenauer has a much more positive image in Ro=
mania and Moldova, for example. I believe it is very obvious that many mill=
ions of Germans disagreed with Nazis, and did not participate in the horror=
s committed by that regime. It is complete news to me to hear that Adenauer=
&#39;s policy was an overt Nazi restoration. Obviously, I don&#39;t know mu=
ch about the issue. I am just saying that what I read and heard before gave=
 me a different impression.=A0</div>

</blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>It is not quite as simple. =A0The Th=
ree Powers still held a lot of sway in West Germany&#39;s affairs -- rememb=
er, the Allied Occupation Force only had the American, English and French z=
ones incorporated into West Germany in spring of 1949 -- and they held enou=
gh leverage to remove anybody who would have overtly restarted advocating &=
quot;restoration of the glory of the Third Reich&quot;. =A0So, even if he h=
ad wanted to overtly restore Nazi Germany, he would not have succeeded. =A0=
Besides, as a political prisoner under Nazi rule, why would he?</div>

<div><br></div><div>While Adenauer was a rather complex politician, a commo=
n thread in his policy was separating Germany&#39;s dark history from the (=
then current) present. =A0It is true that he stepped into questionable wate=
rs more than once, but Nazi he was not. =A0(As the Cold War flamed, Soviet =
propaganda attempted to paint him as one, nevertheless.)</div>

<div><br></div><div>Since from German point of view, Adenauer is mainly ass=
ociated with positive developments such as the Wirtschaftswunder, it&#39;s =
no wonder he&#39;s remembered fondly by Germans. =A0His track record with i=
nternational relationships is spottier, but -- again -- from German POV, hi=
s making up with France tends to overshadow his relations with Eastern Euro=
pe.</div>

<div><br></div><div>Eighty percent of being a Distinguished Statesman is be=
ing in the right place at the right time. =A0Something good will happen eve=
ry now and then, and if you&#39;re there, you&#39;ll get the credit. =A0No =
matter who would have ruled Germany after the WWII, he would have made up w=
ith France -- but Adenauer did, so this inevitable happening is now a testa=
ment to *his* stature as a statesman. =A0<i>C&#39;est la vie...</i></div>

<div><br></div></div><font color=3D"#888888">-- <br>Andres Soolo<br>
</font><br>_______________________________________________<br>
Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=
=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br>

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