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Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 19:58:08 +0300
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From: Dorin Cheptea <dorin.cheptea@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview:  2009/9/2 Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com> > I left
	school before the EU propaganda begun, I can only tell about >
	university experience, where there is a lot of EU material studied, that
	is > one-sided and completely uncritical to the entity. Also there is a
	lot of > manipulation-for example due to fact that our university
	received grants > from Germany we were indoctrinated and introduced to
	such organizations as > Konrad Adeneauer Fundation( >
	http://www.kas.de/proj/home/home/48/8/index.html) that propagate view
	of
	> Germany as peacefull, idyllic state that has totally rejected its Nazi
	past > and dealt with Nazis and only wants to love Poland(if only those
	pesky > Polish 'nationalists' would be gone). Of course that propaganda
	falls apart > when you learn history-in this case-that Adenauer ,
	restored Nazis to > political life and for example sought to obtain
	nuclear weapons for Germany, > while rejecting Polish border. > > Just
	one example. > [...] 
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	Content preview:  2009/9/2 Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com> > I left
	school before the EU propaganda begun, I can only tell about >
	university experience, where there is a lot of EU material studied, that
	is > one-sided and completely uncritical to the entity. Also there is a
	lot of > manipulation-for example due to fact that our university
	received grants > from Germany we were indoctrinated and introduced to
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	http://www.kas.de/proj/home/home/48/8/index.html) that propagate view of
	> Germany as peacefull, idyllic state that has totally rejected its Nazi
	past > and dealt with Nazis and only wants to love Poland(if only those
	pesky > Polish 'nationalists' would be gone). Of course that propaganda
	falls apart > when you learn history-in this case-that Adenauer ,
	restored Nazis to > political life and for example sought to obtain
	nuclear weapons for Germany, > while rejecting Polish border. > > Just
	one example. > [...] 
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2009/9/2 Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>

> I left  school before the EU propaganda begun, I can only tell about
> university experience, where there is a lot of EU material studied, that is
> one-sided and completely uncritical to the entity. Also there is a lot of
> manipulation-for example due to fact that our university received grants
> from Germany we were indoctrinated and introduced to such organizations as
> Konrad Adeneauer Fundation(
> http://www.kas.de/proj/home/home/48/8/index.html) that propagate view of
> Germany as peacefull, idyllic state that has totally rejected its Nazi past
> and dealt with Nazis and only wants to love Poland(if only those pesky
> Polish 'nationalists' would be gone). Of course that propaganda falls apart
> when you learn history-in this case-that Adenauer , restored Nazis to
> political life and for example sought to obtain nuclear weapons for Germany,
> while rejecting Polish border.
>
> Just one example.
>

Very interesting. Konrad Adenauer has a much more positive image in Romania
and Moldova, for example. I believe it is very obvious that many millions of
Germans disagreed with Nazis, and did not participate in the horrors
committed by that regime. It is complete news to me to hear that Adenauer's
policy was an overt Nazi restoration. Obviously, I don't know much about the
issue. I am just saying that what I read and heard before gave me a
different impression.

About the western borders of Poland. While it is a known fact that Pomerania
and Silesia were ethnically mixed borderlands (I won't elaborate now on the
proportions) throughout history, I was under the impression (perhaps due to
my personal ignorance) that Lusatia or Stettin were not ethnically mixed
before 1945. It is obvious that Soviets and the Allies pushed Poland's
post-war borders as much to the west as possible (both the western and
eastern borders). Some pushing of these borders was perhaps very natural to
expect. But pushing them 100% in one direction... There is nothing that can
be done now. But it's a historical fact. So I wouldn't necessarily equate
nostalgic longing for some native town in Lusatia with iron-cold hatred and
execution of prisoners. These are totally different things.

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<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2009/9/2 Molobo Molobo <span dir=3D"ltr"=
>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:molobus@gmail.com">molobus@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span><=
br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left=
:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
I left=A0 school before the EU propaganda begun, I can only tell about univ=
ersity experience, where there is a lot of EU material studied, that is one=
-sided and completely uncritical to the entity. Also there is a lot of mani=
pulation-for example due to fact that our university received grants from G=
ermany we were indoctrinated and introduced to such organizations as Konrad=
 Adeneauer Fundation(<a href=3D"http://www.kas.de/proj/home/home/48/8/index=
.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.kas.de/proj/home/home/48/8/index.html</=
a>) that propagate view of Germany as peacefull, idyllic state that has tot=
ally rejected its Nazi past and dealt with Nazis and only wants to love Pol=
and(if only those pesky Polish &#39;nationalists&#39; would be gone). Of co=
urse that propaganda falls apart when you learn history-in this case-that A=
denauer , restored Nazis to political life and for example sought to obtain=
 nuclear weapons for Germany, while rejecting Polish border.<br>

<br>Just one example.<br></blockquote></div><br><div>Very interesting. Konr=
ad Adenauer has a much more positive image in Romania and Moldova, for exam=
ple. I believe it is very obvious that many millions of Germans disagreed w=
ith Nazis, and did not participate in the horrors committed by that regime.=
 It is complete news to me to hear that Adenauer&#39;s policy was an overt =
Nazi restoration. Obviously, I don&#39;t know much about the issue. I am ju=
st saying that what I read and heard before gave me a different impression.=
=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>About the western borders of Poland. While it is a know=
n fact that Pomerania and Silesia were ethnically mixed borderlands (I won&=
#39;t elaborate now on the proportions) throughout history, I was under the=
 impression (perhaps due to my personal ignorance) that Lusatia or Stettin=
=A0were not ethnically mixed before 1945. It is obvious that Soviets and th=
e Allies pushed Poland&#39;s post-war borders as much to the west as possib=
le (both the western and eastern borders). Some pushing of these borders wa=
s perhaps very natural to expect. But pushing them 100% in one direction...=
 There is nothing that can be done now. But it&#39;s a historical fact. So =
I wouldn&#39;t necessarily equate nostalgic longing for some native town in=
 Lusatia with iron-cold hatred and execution of prisoners. These are totall=
y different things. =A0=A0</div>

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