X-From_: folks-bounces@wikipedometer.net Mon Aug 24 22:05:29 2009
Return-Path: <folks-bounces@wikipedometer.net>
Message-ID: <569034.97908.qm@web32803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
X-YMail-OSG: jkq8fKsVM1nIdSLQU4nXWn8AV7voHwOsjL0lygBI5gWKEsBSTDudKPhI4g1oOsVvVxeo_2Kb6_uFcoQK1aBshqeqV0pIB5a4k5ryK1PlWuU998jZOPOK3YS82jBAknXscLAaJqRACTHeFNbrRKCriR9bg6Kw3AuOUJg4exT2irMOknLNuaH5qx73SnFfr3uGf1xnYkg0HVqw8aqLhD_DOjRDNgK6hzUhHJKyWevK852roJ.G6K4m87t.B_ZzCpKKEPbNHdvr1ZwvzmWqaLUjGI3gDxsZd3fCEgpUlyOZrjLdNhU8dwQphYoBz72zWOG.g0sUhoxNxlvzg2HmayoPSoTZJdRT9opj4Q--
X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/6.1.2 YahooMailWebService/0.7.338.2
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 13:05:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
In-Reply-To: <6c9a05ec0908241242wb7fed3dw41cab1f3f72c76ac@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Spam_score: -0.3
X-Spam_score_int: -2
X-Spam_bar: /
X-Spam_report: Spam detection software,
	running on the system "pakkun.mirky.net", has
	identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message
	has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or
	label similar future email.  If you have any questions, see
	the administrator of that system for details.
	Content preview:  I have also seen a map of Western Pomerania, with all
	Polish names, and made in 1938. However, this does not mean that all
	places there were originally Polish/Slavic. No matter how badly you
	want
	to believe in it, such places as Wegliniec were founded by the Germans, 
	not by us. Tymek [...] 
	Content analysis details:   (-0.3 points, 5.0 required)
	pts rule name              description
	---- ----------------------
	--------------------------------------------------
	-2.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1%
	[score: 0.0000]
	0.5 HTML_40_50             BODY: Message is 40% to 50% HTML
	0.0 HTML_MESSAGE           BODY: HTML included in message
	0.2 DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE RBL: Envelope sender in abuse.rfc-ignorant.org
	1.7 DNS_FROM_RFC_POST      RBL: Envelope sender in
	postmaster.rfc-ignorant.org
	-0.1 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7-deb3 (2006-10-05) on 
	pakkun.mirky.net
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,
	DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE,DNS_FROM_RFC_POST,HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE 
	autolearn=no version=3.1.7-deb3
Subject: Re: [WPM] Polish Committee for Settling of Place Names
X-BeenThere: folks@wikipedometer.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
List-Id: Wikipedia statistics <folks.wikipedometer.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks>,
	<mailto:folks-request@wikipedometer.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Post: <mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net>
List-Help: <mailto:folks-request@wikipedometer.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks>,
	<mailto:folks-request@wikipedometer.net?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4944690061599732864=="
Mime-version: 1.0
Sender: folks-bounces@wikipedometer.net
Errors-To: folks-bounces@wikipedometer.net
X-Spam_score: -0.3
X-Spam_score_int: -2
X-Spam_bar: /
X-Spam_report: Spam detection software, running on the system "pakkun.mirky.net", has
	identified this incoming email as possible spam.  The original message
	has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label
	similar future email.  If you have any questions, see
	the administrator of that system for details.
	Content preview:  I have also seen a map of Western Pomerania, with all
	Polish names, and made in 1938. However, this does not mean that all
	places there were originally Polish/Slavic. No matter how badly you want
	to believe in it, such places as Wegliniec were founded by the Germans,
	not by us. Tymek [...] 
	Content analysis details:   (-0.3 points, 5.0 required)
	pts rule name              description
	---- ---------------------- --------------------------------------------------
	-2.6 BAYES_00               BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1%
	[score: 0.0000]
	0.5 HTML_40_50             BODY: Message is 40% to 50% HTML
	0.0 HTML_MESSAGE           BODY: HTML included in message
	0.2 DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE     RBL: Envelope sender in abuse.rfc-ignorant.org
	1.7 DNS_FROM_RFC_POST      RBL: Envelope sender in
	postmaster.rfc-ignorant.org
	-0.1 AWL                    AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list

--===============4944690061599732864==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-595217312-1251144324=:97908"

--0-595217312-1251144324=:97908
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have also seen a map of Western Pomerania, with all Polish names, and mad=
e in 1938. However, this does not mean that all places there were originall=
y Polish/Slavic. No matter how badly you want to believe in it, such places=
 as Wegliniec were founded by the Germans, not by us.
Tymek

--- On Mon, 8/24/09, Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com> wrote:


From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [WPM] Polish Committee for Settling of Place Names
To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 2:42 PM


Sorry Tymek but you are just incorrect. I myself were able to see a wall si=
zed map from interwar era with Poland, East Prussia, Silesia, up to origina=
l Ostsiedlung area-all with Polish names. So to claim they didn't exist bef=
ore 1945 is not true.

The settlements in East Prussia were usually founded on destroyed locations=
 of Old Prussian villages or fortifications, so they too had previous names=
.

Also it is rather improper to speak of "Germans" in that era-a more fitting=
 name would be Germanic settlers, althought still many were non-Germanic as=
 well.


2009/8/24 piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>






Virtually all names of Eastern Prussia were not Polish, they were either an=
cient Prussian or German, as the Germans founded many cities there, and we =
do not have to hide it. Same in Sudety, this area was uninhabited until the=
 13th century, and only then German settlers founded several towns there, s=
uch as Jelenia Gora.=20
=A0
Western Pomerania and lands north of the Sudety are a different thing, as t=
hese lands had Slavic villages, whose names were Germanized. Interestingly,=
 most place names in Brandenburg and Mecklenburg are Slavic, too, with anci=
ent Slavic communities reaching as far west as Hamburg.=20
=A0
Tymek

--- On Mon, 8/24/09, Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com> wrote:


From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [WPM] Polish Committee for Settling of Place Names

To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 1:58 PM





"Many places did not have Polish names, and they had to find completely new=
 ones."

It's the other way around actually-almost all had Polish or Slavic names si=
nce that was Polish and Slavic territory before. East Prussia was most prob=
lematic-but they were Old Prussian names as most settlements were in place =
of original villages or settlements destroyed by Teutonic Knights.


2009/8/24 piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>






Interesting article. Polish historians had many problems, especially in Eas=
t Prussia and Lower Silesia. Many places did not have Polish names, and the=
y had to find completely new ones. Zgorzelec for a while was called Zgorzel=
ice, until 1948.
=A0
Tymek

--- On Sun, 8/23/09, Piotr Konieczny <piokon@post.pl> wrote:


From: Piotr Konieczny <piokon@post.pl>
Subject: [WPM] Polish Committee for Settling of Place Names
To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
Date: Sunday, August 23, 2009, 2:15 PM=20





How's the article on the Nazi commission for expelled coming?

In the meantime, German editor HerkusMonte has created
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Committee_for_Settling_of_Place_Names
It is also nominated for DYK
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Did_you_know#Polish_Committee_fo=
r_Settling_of_Place_Names

At first glance I don't see any obvious propaganda, but our experts on=20
the Polish-German history may want to take a closer look at it.

Herkus is quite active recently, he has done a lot of edits to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Prussian_plebiscite
created a series of bios, some of them of Polish historians and writers,=20
and added a lot of German names to geographical places in Regained=20
Territories (not that I have any problem with that).

--=20
Piotr Konieczny

"The problem about Wikipedia is, that it just works in reality, not in=20
theory."

_______________________________________________
Wikipedia statistics discussion list
folks@wikipedometer.net
http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks


_______________________________________________
Wikipedia statistics discussion list
folks@wikipedometer.net
http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks



-----Inline Attachment Follows-----



_______________________________________________
Wikipedia statistics discussion list
folks@wikipedometer.net
http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks


_______________________________________________
Wikipedia statistics discussion list
folks@wikipedometer.net
http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks



-----Inline Attachment Follows-----


_______________________________________________
Wikipedia statistics discussion list
folks@wikipedometer.net
http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
=0A=0A=0A      
--0-595217312-1251144324=:97908
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><DIV>I have also seen a map of Western Pomera=
nia, with all Polish names, and made in 1938. However, this does not mean t=
hat all places there were originally Polish/Slavic. No matter how badly you=
 want to believe in it, such places as Wegliniec were founded by the German=
s, not by us.</DIV>
<DIV>Tymek<BR><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 8/24/09, Molobo Molobo <I>&lt;molobus@gmai=
l.com&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid"><BR>From: Molobo Molobo &lt;molobus@gmail.com&gt;<BR>=
Subject: Re: [WPM] Polish Committee for Settling of Place Names<BR>To: "Wik=
ipedia statistics" &lt;folks@wikipedometer.net&gt;<BR>Date: Monday, August =
24, 2009, 2:42 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=3Dyiv1369768005>Sorry Tymek but you are just incorrect. I myself we=
re able to see a wall sized map from interwar era with Poland, East Prussia=
, Silesia, up to original Ostsiedlung area-all with Polish names. So to cla=
im they didn't exist before 1945 is not true.<BR><BR>The settlements in Eas=
t Prussia were usually founded on destroyed locations of Old Prussian villa=
ges or fortifications, so they too had previous names.<BR><BR>Also it is ra=
ther improper to speak of "Germans" in that era-a more fitting name would b=
e Germanic settlers, althought still many were non-Germanic as well.<BR><BR=
>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>2009/8/24 piotr micula <SPAN dir=3Dltr>&lt;<A href=
=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dbasiaipiotr@yahoo.com" t=
arget=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:basiaipiotr@yahoo.com">basi=
aipiotr@yahoo.com</A>&gt;</SPAN><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt=
 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: inherit; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-stretch:=
 inherit" vAlign=3Dtop>
<DIV>Virtually all names of Eastern Prussia were not Polish, they were eith=
er ancient Prussian or German, as the Germans founded many cities there, an=
d we do not have to hide it. Same in Sudety, this area was uninhabited unti=
l the 13th century, and only then German settlers founded several towns the=
re, such as Jelenia Gora. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Western Pomerania and lands north of the Sudety are a different thing,=
 as these lands had Slavic villages, whose names were Germanized. Interesti=
ngly, most place names in Brandenburg and Mecklenburg are Slavic, too, with=
 ancient Slavic communities reaching as far west as Hamburg. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Tymek<BR><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 8/24/09, Molobo Molobo <I>&lt;<A href=3D"h=
ttp://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dmolobus@gmail.com" target=3D_=
blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:molobus@gmail.com">molobus@gmail.com=
</A>&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid"><BR>From: Molobo Molobo &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc32=
8.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dmolobus@gmail.com" target=3D_blank rel=3Dn=
ofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:molobus@gmail.com">molobus@gmail.com</A>&gt;<BR>S=
ubject: Re: [WPM] Polish Committee for Settling of Place Names
<DIV class=3Dim><BR>To: "Wikipedia statistics" &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc3=
28.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" target=3D_blank =
rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedomet=
er.net</A>&gt;<BR></DIV>Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 1:58 PM
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3Dh5><BR><BR>
<DIV>"Many places did not have Polish names, and they had to find completel=
y new ones."<BR><BR>It's the other way around actually-almost all had Polis=
h or Slavic names since that was Polish and Slavic territory before. East P=
russia was most problematic-but they were Old Prussian names as most settle=
ments were in place of original villages or settlements destroyed by Teuton=
ic Knights.<BR><BR>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>2009/8/24 piotr micula <SPAN dir=3Dltr>&lt;<A href=
=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dbasiaipiotr@yahoo.com" t=
arget=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>basiaipiotr@yahoo.com</A>&gt;</SPAN><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt=
 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: inherit; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-stretch:=
 inherit" vAlign=3Dtop>
<DIV>Interesting article. Polish historians had many problems, especially i=
n East Prussia and Lower Silesia. Many places did not have Polish names, an=
d they had to find completely new ones. Zgorzelec for a while was called Zg=
orzelice, until 1948.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Tymek<BR><BR>--- On <B>Sun, 8/23/09, Piotr Konieczny <I>&lt;piokon@pos=
t.pl&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid"><BR>From: Piotr Konieczny &lt;piokon@post.pl&gt;<BR>S=
ubject: [WPM] Polish Committee for Settling of Place Names<BR>To: "Wikipedi=
a statistics" &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=
=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>folks@wikipedome=
ter.net</A>&gt;<BR>Date: Sunday, August 23, 2009, 2:15 PM=20
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>
<DIV>How's the article on the Nazi commission for expelled coming?<BR><BR>I=
n the meantime, German editor HerkusMonte has created<BR><A href=3D"http://=
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Committee_for_Settling_of_Place_Names" target=
=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Committee_for_=
Settling_of_Place_Names</A><BR>It is also nominated for DYK<BR><A href=3D"h=
ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Did_you_know#Polish_Committee_for=
_Settling_of_Place_Names" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://en.wikipedi=
a.org/wiki/Template_talk:Did_you_know#Polish_Committee_for_Settling_of_Plac=
e_Names</A><BR><BR>At first glance I don't see any obvious propaganda, but =
our experts on <BR>the Polish-German history may want to take a closer look=
 at it.<BR><BR>Herkus is quite active recently, he has done a lot of edits =
to<BR><A href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Prussian_plebiscite" tar=
get=3D_blank
 rel=3Dnofollow>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Prussian_plebiscite</A><B=
R>created a series of bios, some of them of Polish historians and writers, =
<BR>and added a lot of German names to geographical places in Regained <BR>=
Territories (not that I have any problem with that).<BR><BR>-- <BR>Piotr Ko=
nieczny<BR><BR>"The problem about Wikipedia is, that it just works in reali=
ty, not in <BR>theory."<BR><BR>____________________________________________=
___<BR>Wikipedia statistics discussion list<BR><A href=3D"http://us.mc328.m=
ail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" target=3D_blank rel=
=3Dnofollow>folks@wikipedometer.net</A><BR><A href=3D"http://wikipedometer.=
net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://w=
ikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</A><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></=
BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR>______________________________=
_________________<BR>Wikipedia statistics discussion list<BR><A
 href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer=
.net" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>folks@wikipedometer.net</A><BR><A href=
=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D_blan=
k rel=3Dnofollow>http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</A=
><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV>-----Inline Attachmen=
t Follows-----
<DIV class=3Dim><BR><BR>
<DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>Wikipedia statistic=
s discussion list<BR><A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?t=
o=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>folks@wikipedom=
eter.net</A><BR><A href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinf=
o/folks" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/ma=
ilman/listinfo/folks</A><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TA=
BLE><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Wikipedia st=
atistics discussion list<BR><A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/co=
mpose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=
=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</A><BR><A href=
=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D_blan=
k rel=3Dnofollow>http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</A=
><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV><BR>-----Inline Attachment Follows---=
--<BR><BR>
<DIV class=3DplainMail>_______________________________________________<BR>W=
ikipedia statistics discussion list<BR><A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yaho=
o.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@wiki=
pedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</A><BR><A href=3D"http://wikipedomet=
er.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D_blank>http://wikipedometer=
.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</A><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></t=
able><br>=0A=0A      
--0-595217312-1251144324=:97908--


--===============4944690061599732864==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

_______________________________________________
Wikipedia statistics discussion list
folks@wikipedometer.net
http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks

--===============4944690061599732864==--


