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Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 18:43:38 +0200
Message-ID: <6c9a05ec0906130943v5997f791w39fa4ad026b697a3@mail.gmail.com>
From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview:  It's far more compliacted then Neo-Nazi editors.
	Basically Germany has managed to avoid certain issues connected to
	German nationalism by putting an image of Neo-Nazis=Nationalists. But
	nationalism in Germany is not limited to neo-nazi movement, some
	nationalists actually can even hate neonazis or Hitler simply out of
	the
	fact that they lost war. Also Nazism was quite socialist in certain
	aspects. Users like Smith2006 for example are representing radical
	christian right that can be also found in Poland. While they will be
	against outright nazism, they will support claims of German
	nationalists. And completely different breed of German nationalism if
	what I observed in German left-this is "German are superior Europeans"
	nationalism. It is made of belieft that Germany has made the greatest
	attempts to deal with its past while others didn't and all European
	countries should take responsibility like Germans did for WW2. Their
	"dealing with the past" is concentrated only on Jewish
	issues-atrocities
	against Poles will be countered with the German propaganda about Polish
	fault for WW2, and "Polish nationalism". User Thorsten1 would be a good
	example of this kind of thinking. [...] 
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Subject: Re: [WPM] More cabal theory
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	Content preview:  It's far more compliacted then Neo-Nazi editors.
	Basically Germany has managed to avoid certain issues connected to
	German nationalism by putting an image of Neo-Nazis=Nationalists. But
	nationalism in Germany is not limited to neo-nazi movement, some
	nationalists actually can even hate neonazis or Hitler simply out of the
	fact that they lost war. Also Nazism was quite socialist in certain
	aspects. Users like Smith2006 for example are representing radical
	christian right that can be also found in Poland. While they will be
	against outright nazism, they will support claims of German
	nationalists. And completely different breed of German nationalism if
	what I observed in German left-this is "German are superior Europeans"
	nationalism. It is made of belieft that Germany has made the greatest
	attempts to deal with its past while others didn't and all European
	countries should take responsibility like Germans did for WW2. Their
	"dealing with the past" is concentrated only on Jewish issues-atrocities
	against Poles will be countered with the German propaganda about Polish
	fault for WW2, and "Polish nationalism". User Thorsten1 would be a good
	example of this kind of thinking. [...] 
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It's far more compliacted then Neo-Nazi editors. Basically Germany has
managed to avoid certain issues connected to German nationalism by putting
an image of Neo-Nazis=3DNationalists. But nationalism in Germany is not
limited to neo-nazi movement, some nationalists actually can even hate
neonazis or Hitler simply out of the fact that they lost war. Also Nazism
was quite socialist in certain aspects. Users like Smith2006 for example ar=
e
representing radical christian right that can be also found in Poland. Whil=
e
they will be against outright nazism, they will support claims of German
nationalists.
And completely different breed of German nationalism if what I observed in
German left-this is "German are superior Europeans" nationalism. It is made
of belieft that Germany has made the greatest attempts to deal with its pas=
t
while others didn't and all European countries should take responsibility
like Germans did for WW2. Their "dealing with the past" is concentrated onl=
y
on Jewish issues-atrocities against Poles will be countered with the German
propaganda about Polish fault for WW2, and "Polish nationalism". User
Thorsten1 would be a good example of this kind of thinking.

German cabal I would define into following groups:

Neo-Nazis-very rare and burn out shortly, examples include Npovshark,
Kurf=FCrst-obvious attempts to show Nazi propaganda as truth

German conservative nationalism-will focus on alledged German civilisationa=
l
role in the "barbarian East", attacks on Czechs and Poles for
"discrimination of Germans",  try to present cities in Poland and Czech
Republic as "eternally German", show Central and Eastern Europea as
barbaric, non-developed and lacking any development if not ruled bviy
Germans. Users Matthead, Skapperod, Smith2006 go into this group

Revisionists-try to portay Nazi Germany as "normal country". Allies as usin=
g
genocide and mass murder against Germans, Nazi propaganda as having "grain
of truth", focus on equalising German "suffering" with Holocaust. Attempts
to smuggle Nazi claims in subtle way into the text. User Stork Stark7 and
Skapperod will be in that group.

German "superior Europeans"-present Germans as not caring about "national
issues"-while constantly writing about them. Arrogant attitude to Central
Europeans that "must learn from Germans". Belief that Poles and Central
Europeans are equally responsible for WW2 and Holocaust as Germans and its
time they admit it. Sometims brings up German nationalist propaganda.
UserThorsten1 belongs to this group, but in general this is a fairly
widespread public view in Germany.

W dniu 10 czerwca 2009 18:42 u=BFytkownik Piotr Konieczny <piokon@post.pl>n=
apisa=B3:

> Miacek and his crime-fighting dog wrote:
> > I was thinking it's just one of those Danzig-Gda=F1sk / Stettin Sczceci=
n
> issues.
> >
> > If he is indeed one of the Greater Germany cabal or even a Neo-Nazi,
> > then he should be banned. Who are the other accounts you would include
> > in such a faction?
>
> Check
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Eastern_E=
uropean_disputes/Evidence#Tag_team_3:_German
>
> There were few editors active in the past who no longer are (Jadger...).
>  I am sure Molobo can add a few more names.
>
>
> --
> Prokonsul Piotrus aka Piotr Konieczny       |||____  __ __
>                                       I=3DI=3D=3D=3D=3D__|_|I__I=3D>
> "Lennier, get us the hell out of here."     |||
> "Initiating 'getting the hell out of here' maneuver."
>  -- Ivanova and Lennier in Babylon 5:"The Hour of the Wolf"
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> folks@wikipedometer.net
> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>

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It&#39;s far more compliacted then Neo-Nazi editors. Basically Germany has =
managed to avoid certain issues connected to German nationalism by putting =
an image of Neo-Nazis=3DNationalists. But nationalism in Germany is not lim=
ited to neo-nazi movement, some nationalists actually can even hate neonazi=
s or Hitler simply out of the fact that they lost war. Also Nazism was quit=
e socialist in certain aspects. Users like Smith2006 for example are repres=
enting radical christian right that can be also found in Poland. While they=
 will be against outright nazism, they will support claims of German nation=
alists. <br>
And completely different breed of German nationalism if what I observed in =
German left-this is &quot;German are superior Europeans&quot; nationalism. =
It is made of belieft that Germany has made the greatest attempts to deal w=
ith its past while others didn&#39;t and all European countries should take=
 responsibility like Germans did for WW2. Their &quot;dealing with the past=
&quot; is concentrated only on Jewish issues-atrocities against Poles will =
be countered with the German propaganda about Polish fault for WW2, and &qu=
ot;Polish nationalism&quot;. User Thorsten1 would be a good example of this=
 kind of thinking.<br>
<br>German cabal I would define into following groups:<br><br>Neo-Nazis-ver=
y rare and burn out shortly, examples include Npovshark, Kurf=FCrst-obvious=
 attempts to show Nazi propaganda as truth<br><br>German conservative natio=
nalism-will focus on alledged German civilisational role in the &quot;barba=
rian East&quot;, attacks on Czechs and Poles for &quot;discrimination of Ge=
rmans&quot;,=A0 try to present cities in Poland and Czech Republic as &quot=
;eternally German&quot;, show Central and Eastern Europea as barbaric, non-=
developed and lacking any development if not ruled bviy Germans. Users Matt=
head, Skapperod, Smith2006 go into this group<br>
<br>Revisionists-try to portay Nazi Germany as &quot;normal country&quot;. =
Allies as using genocide and mass murder against Germans, Nazi propaganda a=
s having &quot;grain of truth&quot;, focus on equalising German &quot;suffe=
ring&quot; with Holocaust. Attempts to smuggle Nazi claims in subtle way in=
to the text. User Stork Stark7 and Skapperod will be in that group. <br>
<br>German &quot;superior Europeans&quot;-present Germans as not caring abo=
ut &quot;national issues&quot;-while constantly writing about them. Arrogan=
t attitude to Central Europeans that &quot;must learn from Germans&quot;. B=
elief that Poles and Central Europeans are equally responsible for WW2 and =
Holocaust as Germans and its time they admit it. Sometims brings up German =
nationalist propaganda. UserThorsten1 belongs to this group, but in general=
 this is a fairly widespread public view in Germany.<br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">W dniu 10 czerwca 2009 18:42 u=BFytkownik Pi=
otr Konieczny <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;piokon@post.pl&gt;</span> napisa=B3:<br=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204,=
 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class=3D"im">Miacek and his crime-fighting dog wrote:<br>
</div><div class=3D"im">&gt; I was thinking it&#39;s just one of those Danz=
ig-Gda=F1sk / Stettin Sczcecin issues.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; If he is indeed one of the Greater Germany cabal or even a Neo-Nazi,<b=
r>
&gt; then he should be banned. Who are the other accounts you would include=
<br>
&gt; in such a faction?<br>
<br>
</div>Check<br>
<a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/=
Eastern_European_disputes/Evidence#Tag_team_3:_German" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Eastern_Europ=
ean_disputes/Evidence#Tag_team_3:_German</a><br>

<br>
There were few editors active in the past who no longer are (Jadger...).<br=
>
 =A0I am sure Molobo can add a few more names.<br>
<font color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br>
--<br>
</font><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5">Prokonsul Piotrus aka Piotr Koniec=
zny =A0 =A0 =A0 |||____ =A0__ __<br>
 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 I=3DI=3D=3D=3D=3D__|_|I__I=3D&gt;<br>
&quot;Lennier, get us the hell out of here.&quot; =A0 =A0 |||<br>
&quot;Initiating &#39;getting the hell out of here&#39; maneuver.&quot;<br>
 =A0-- Ivanova and Lennier in Babylon 5:&quot;The Hour of the Wolf&quot;<br=
>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br>
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=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>

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