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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:35:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jack <jacurek@yahoo.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview: Well sad Radek. As far as Bandurist he pissed me off
	so much today that I complained about him here.
	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Problems_with_user_Bandurist
	I don't think we can work with him, he is a total ass and I personally
	don't want to have anything to do with him. Jacek [...] 
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Subject: Re: [WPM] Well.. whatever is your opinion about him I think he is
	an asshole and I complained about him
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	Content preview:  Well sad Radek. As far as Bandurist he pissed me off so
	much today that I complained about him here.
	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Problems_with_user_Bandurist
	I don't think we can work with him, he is a total ass and I personally
	don't want to have anything to do with him. Jacek [...] 
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Well sad Radek.
As far as Bandurist he pissed me off so much today that I complained about him here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Problems_with_user_Bandurist
I don't think we can work with him, he is a total ass and I personally don't want to have anything to do with him.
Jacek


________________________________
From: radek szulga <rsszulga@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:18:20 PM
Subject: Re: [WPM] Well.. whatever is your opinion about him I think he is an asshole and I complained about him

Ok, I'm gonna explain myself here a bit and be upfront about the fact that I think that Faustian and Bandurist are acting in assholish ways. I agree that the template is too much and that Pawel is likewise being an asshole and causing trouble. What we're seeing here is an escalation of the conflict between the two sides, by users who are not part of this group and a  lack of intervention by some of us to put an end to it before it's too late. And yes, by that I mean you Hillock - some words to these users could've really helped earlier but now it's probably too late.

Not me, because in the past few weeks I've emailed both Faustian and Loosmark to try to get this shit under control (in addition to making on-Wiki attempts).
I thought I had an understanding with Faustian that he wasn't going to report anybody (except Pawel, who probably deserves it) without first asking me to do something about it. But then he went and reported Loosmark (yes, I know Loosmark is not part of this group, but he is a very good editor who regularly supports us and can be counted on in votes/disputes etc. to line up with us) and got him topic banned. I take this as a pretty clear breach of good will on Faustian's part that I thought we had established. Right now I'm actually really pissed off at him and evil thoughts about how to get him have entered my mind (I have not done anything about them yet).

At the same time, I've been emailing Loosmark, telling him that Faustian's an OK guy, that he should talk to him, that Faustian's on the same side as him. Loosmark was sceptical but said ok, until Faustian made his provocative edits which tried to insinuate (against what his sources actually said)  that Poles collaborated with the Nazis in order to kill Ukrainians at which point Loosmark got fed up with it. And then Faustian got him banned. And now I look like a complete ass to Loosmark because I've been telling him to give Faustian the benefit of the doubt and then Faustian got him banned. (In fact, I did email Loosmark and apologized).

I don't know about Bandurist - but Molobo said he was interested in cooperating with Polish editors. Next thing you know he shows up and asks that Loosmarks ban be "doubled". He stalks Jacurek and reverts any changes without comment. He goes on a renaming spree, including some articles that clearly don't warrant it.

Right now it appears to me that both these guys are playing a double game - saying what I(we) want to hear, pledging to cooperate, acting nice and at the same time going full throttle after Polish articles and editors.

Like I said, there probably was a time to rein in everyone on all sides but I can't help feeling like I was the only one who made an effort here (hell, I even spoke up for Lvivske and asked that he wouldn't be banned!). 

Radek



2009/9/15 O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>

>No fucking way! I just "familiarized myself" with this article and am very tempted to write a series of articles on crimes committed by Armia Krayova against Ukrainians. Does anyone seriously think this article and this outrages and extremely disgusting template http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Massacres_of_Poles is going to lead to any kind of understanding and cooperation? What keeps me from joining Bandurist is the fact that I am part of this cabal and I support him wholeheartedly.
>
>
>>--- On Tue, 9/15/09, Jack <jacurek@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> From: Jack <jacurek@yahoo.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [WPM] Well.. whatever is your opinion about him I think he is an asshole and I complained about him
>>> To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
>> Received: Tuesday, September 15, 2009, 3:07 AM
>
>> I told you guys that Bandurist
>>> is very problematic. Could our Ukrainian friends here
>>> intervene please. Thank you.
>>> Jacek
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: piotr
>>> micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
>>> To: Wikipedia
>>> statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
>>> Sent: Monday,
>>> September 14, 2009 10:01:51 AM
>>> Subject: Re:
>>> [WPM] Well.. whatever is your opinion about him I think he
>>> is an asshole and I complained about him
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Now there is a problem with the Pidkamin massacre
>>> article. Basically, there is one Jim Sweeney, backed by
>>> Bandurist, who seems to demand references for each word
>>> there. It goes way too far now.
>>>  
>>> Tymek 
>>>
>>> --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Jack
>>> <jacurek@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Jack <jacurek@yahoo.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [WPM] Well.. whatever is your opinion about
>>> him I think he is an asshole and I complained about him
>>> To: "Wikipedia statistics"
>>> <folks@wikipedometer.net>
>>> Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 11:48 PM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ofcourse it would work if he only talked to me instead
>>> of deleting my comments from his talk page and replacing it
>>> ith a smile face.
>>> He is an ass. This is what I think abut him at the
>>> moment. Sorry.
>>> Jack
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Andrei
>>> Dombay <wikibiophys@gmail.com>
>>> To: Wikipedia
>>> statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
>>> Sent: Friday,
>>> September 11, 2009 8:57:56 PM
>>> Subject: Re:
>>> [WPM] Well.. whatever is your opinion about him I think he
>>> is an asshole and I complained about him
>>>
>>> Jack,
>>>
>>> I am not familiar with the article, but just looking at
>>> your diffs... You both should  agree to tell somewhere
>>> in the beginning of the article that the village/city was
>>> Polish before the war (use Polish name and Polish
>>> voevodstvo), then it was occupied by Nazi - (use German name
>>> - that is when the atrocities had happened), but currently
>>> it became Ukrainian (use Ukrainian name).   Would
>>> it work? And let's blame Nazi - no matter if the Nazi
>>> where German or
>>>  Ukrainian.
>>>
>>> Andrei
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 10:05 PM,
>>> Jack <jacurek@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiquette_alerts#Issue_with_user_Bandurist.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
>>> folks@wikipedometer.net
>>> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
>>> folks@wikipedometer.net
>>> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
>>> folks@wikipedometer.net
>>> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>>>
>
>
>
     __________________________________________________________________
>>Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
>
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>



      
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<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:garamond, 'new york', times, serif;font-size:14pt"><div>Well sad Radek.</div><div>As far as&nbsp;Bandurist he pissed me off so much today that I complained about him here.</div><div><span><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Problems_with_user_Bandurist">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Problems_with_user_Bandurist</a></span></div><div style="font-family:garamond, new york, times, serif;font-size:14pt">I don't think we can work with him, he is a total ass and I personally don't want to have anything to do with him.</div><div style="font-family:garamond, new york, times, serif;font-size:14pt">Jacek<br><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><hr size="1"><b><span
 style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> radek szulga &lt;rsszulga@gmail.com&gt;<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Wikipedia statistics &lt;folks@wikipedometer.net&gt;<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, September 14, 2009 11:18:20 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [WPM] Well.. whatever is your opinion about him I think he is an asshole and I complained about him<br></font><br>
Ok, I'm gonna explain myself here a bit and be upfront about the fact that I think that Faustian and Bandurist are acting in assholish ways. I agree that the template is too much and that Pawel is likewise being an asshole and causing trouble. What we're seeing here is an escalation of the conflict between the two sides, by users who are not part of this group and a&nbsp; lack of intervention by some of us to put an end to it before it's too late. And yes, by that I mean you Hillock - some words to these users could've really helped earlier but now it's probably too late.<br>
<br>Not me, because in the past few weeks I've emailed both Faustian and Loosmark to try to get this shit under control (in addition to making on-Wiki attempts).<br>I thought I had an understanding with Faustian that he wasn't going to report anybody (except Pawel, who probably deserves it) without first asking me to do something about it. But then he went and reported Loosmark (yes, I know Loosmark is not part of this group, but he is a very good editor who regularly supports us and can be counted on in votes/disputes etc. to line up with us) and got him topic banned. I take this as a pretty clear breach of good will on Faustian's part that I thought we had established. Right now I'm actually really pissed off at him and evil thoughts about how to get him have entered my mind (I have not done anything about them yet).<br>
<br>At the same time, I've been emailing Loosmark, telling him that Faustian's an OK guy, that he should talk to him, that Faustian's on the same side as him. Loosmark was sceptical but said ok, until Faustian made his provocative edits which tried to insinuate (against what his sources actually said)&nbsp; that Poles collaborated with the Nazis in order to kill Ukrainians at which point Loosmark got fed up with it. And then Faustian got him banned. And now I look like a complete ass to Loosmark because I've been telling him to give Faustian the benefit of the doubt and then Faustian got him banned. (In fact, I did email Loosmark and apologized).<br>
<br>I don't know about Bandurist - but Molobo said he was interested in cooperating with Polish editors. Next thing you know he shows up and asks that Loosmarks ban be "doubled". He stalks Jacurek and reverts any changes without comment. He goes on a renaming spree, including some articles that clearly don't warrant it.<br>
<br>Right now it appears to me that both these guys are playing a double game - saying what I(we) want to hear, pledging to cooperate, acting nice and at the same time going full throttle after Polish articles and editors.<br>
<br>Like I said, there probably was a time to rein in everyone on all sides but I can't help feeling like I was the only one who made an effort here (hell, I even spoke up for Lvivske and asked that he wouldn't be banned!). <br>
<br>Radek<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2009/9/15 O. G. <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:hillock@yahoo.ca" target="_blank" href="mailto:hillock@yahoo.ca">hillock@yahoo.ca</a>&gt;</span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;"><span>
No fucking way! I just "familiarized myself" with this article and am very tempted to write a series of articles on crimes committed by Armia Krayova against Ukrainians. Does anyone seriously think this article and this outrages and extremely disgusting template <a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Massacres_of_Poles">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Massacres_of_Poles</a> is going to lead to any kind of understanding and cooperation? What keeps me from joining Bandurist is the fact that I am part of this cabal and I support him wholeheartedly.</span><br>

<div class="im"><br>
--- On Tue, 9/15/09, Jack &lt;<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:jacurek@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:jacurek@yahoo.com">jacurek@yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; From: Jack &lt;<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:jacurek@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:jacurek@yahoo.com">jacurek@yahoo.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [WPM] Well.. whatever is your opinion about him I think he is an asshole and I complained about him<br>
&gt; To: "Wikipedia statistics" &lt;<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a>&gt;<br>
</div>&gt; Received: Tuesday, September 15, 2009, 3:07 AM<br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5">&gt; I told you guys that Bandurist<br>
&gt; is very problematic. Could our Ukrainian friends here<br>
&gt; intervene please. Thank you.<br>
&gt; Jacek<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; From: piotr<br>
&gt; micula &lt;<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:basiaipiotr@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:basiaipiotr@yahoo.com">basiaipiotr@yahoo.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; To: Wikipedia<br>
&gt; statistics &lt;<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Sent: Monday,<br>
&gt; September 14, 2009 10:01:51 AM<br>
&gt; Subject: Re:<br>
&gt; [WPM] Well.. whatever is your opinion about him I think he<br>
&gt; is an asshole and I complained about him<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Now there is a problem with the Pidkamin massacre<br>
&gt; article. Basically, there is one Jim Sweeney, backed by<br>
&gt; Bandurist, who seems to demand references for each word<br>
&gt; there. It&nbsp;goes way too far now.<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; Tymek&nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Jack<br>
&gt; &lt;<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:jacurek@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:jacurek@yahoo.com">jacurek@yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; From: Jack &lt;<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:jacurek@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:jacurek@yahoo.com">jacurek@yahoo.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [WPM] Well.. whatever is your opinion about<br>
&gt; him I think he is an asshole and I complained about him<br>
&gt; To: "Wikipedia statistics"<br>
&gt; &lt;<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 11:48 PM<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Ofcourse it would work if he only talked to me instead<br>
&gt; of deleting my comments from his talk page and replacing it<br>
&gt; ith a smile face.<br>
&gt; He is an ass. This is what I think abut him at the<br>
&gt; moment. Sorry.<br>
&gt; Jack<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; From: Andrei<br>
&gt; Dombay &lt;<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:wikibiophys@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:wikibiophys@gmail.com">wikibiophys@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; To: Wikipedia<br>
&gt; statistics &lt;<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Sent: Friday,<br>
&gt; September 11, 2009 8:57:56 PM<br>
&gt; Subject: Re:<br>
&gt; [WPM] Well.. whatever is your opinion about him I think he<br>
&gt; is an asshole and I complained about him<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Jack,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I am not familiar with the article, but just looking at<br>
&gt; your diffs... You both should&nbsp; agree to tell somewhere<br>
&gt; in the beginning of the article that the village/city was<br>
&gt; Polish before the war (use Polish name and Polish<br>
&gt; voevodstvo), then it was occupied by Nazi - (use German name<br>
&gt; - that is when the atrocities had happened), but currently<br>
&gt; it became Ukrainian (use Ukrainian name).&nbsp;&nbsp; Would<br>
&gt; it work? And let's blame Nazi - no matter if the Nazi<br>
&gt; where German or<br>
&gt; &nbsp;Ukrainian.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Andrei<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 10:05 PM,<br>
&gt; Jack &lt;<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:jacurek@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:jacurek@yahoo.com">jacurek@yahoo.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br><span>
&gt; <a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiquette_alerts#Issue_with_user_Bandurist">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiquette_alerts#Issue_with_user_Bandurist</a>.</span><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br>
&gt; <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a><br><span>
&gt; <a target="_blank" href="http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a></span><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br>
&gt; <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a><br>
&gt; <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
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