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Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 20:20:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: "O. G." <hillock@yahoo.ca>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview:  I already wrote,
	UPA is not recognized by the Ukrainian
	state. It has nothing to apologize for. Unlike the POLISH STATE that
	subjugated, assimilated, persecuted and ethnically clensed Ukrainians.
	Apologizing for the deeds of UPA by the state officials would be
	tantamount to state recognizing it and as such it is a very divisive
	issue, all politicians shy from it. And if it happened, I should hope
	Poles will appologize for the atrocities commited by the AK. For the
	life of me I cannot see what good it will bring?!! All this moaning and
	going through decomposed bodies and mutual accusations does nothing, but
	devides. [...] 
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Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and others.
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	Content preview:  I already wrote, UPA is not recognized by the Ukrainian
	state. It has nothing to apologize for. Unlike the POLISH STATE that
	subjugated, assimilated, persecuted and ethnically clensed Ukrainians.
	Apologizing for the deeds of UPA by the state officials would be
	tantamount to state recognizing it and as such it is a very divisive
	issue, all politicians shy from it. And if it happened, I should hope
	Poles will appologize for the atrocities commited by the AK. For the
	life of me I cannot see what good it will bring?!! All this moaning and
	going through decomposed bodies and mutual accusations does nothing, but
	devides. [...] 
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I already wrote, UPA is not recognized by the Ukrainian state. It has nothi=
ng to apologize for. Unlike the POLISH STATE that subjugated, assimilated, =
persecuted and ethnically clensed Ukrainians. Apologizing for the deeds of =
UPA by the state officials would be tantamount to state recognizing it and =
as such it is a very divisive issue, all politicians shy from it. And if it=
 happened, I should hope Poles will appologize for the atrocities commited =
by the AK. For the life of me I cannot see what good it will bring?!! All t=
his moaning and going through decomposed bodies and mutual accusations does=
 nothing, but devides. =


--- On Mon, 8/3/09, piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and others.
> To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 9:42 AM
> For starters, there has been no
> single apology from the Ukrainian side. What is more
> important, 80%=A0bones of Poles murdered in Volhynia have
> not been properly buried, and lie there in Volhynian and
> Podolian fields, among villages burned to the ground.
> Don't you think that Ukrainian authorities should at
> least give permission for exhumations of these remains? =

> =

> It is not about playing UPA card. It is about
> remembering history and those who were murdered for nothing.
> Should we all sweep this topic under the carpet and forget
> it forever? If so, let us erase all history articles on
> Wikipedia, and demand closing of all museums, with Museum of
> Holocaust as first.
> =A0
> Tymek
> =

> --- On Sun, 8/2/09, O. G.
> <hillock@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> =

> =

> From: O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>
> Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and
> others.
> To: "Wikipedia statistics"
> <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 8:33 PM
> =

> =

> =

> I was just wondering how many apologizing does it take to
> put this thing behind us? People keep forgetting that issue
> of UPA is very divisive in Ukraine and it runs along
> linguistic and geopolitical divisions as well. There are
> millions of Ukrainians who will always regard UPA as heroes
> in spite of everything, just because in Western Ukraine
> every other family was associated with them in some way or
> suffered collective punishment for their activities. Yet on
> the state level UPA is still not recognized as the WWII
> participant. I am from central Ukraine and have nothing to
> do with UPA but still consider them heroes just as the Red
> Army vets, because millions of my compatriots do so on both
> sides of the divide. There are different views on this in
> every family, people don't bring it up in company. It is
> EXTREMELY divisive and volatile topic, interference of
> outsiders in this brings it to the whole new level. I only
> hope Poland won't
>  be playing the UPA card
> as Russia has for so many years. It will be devastating for
> both peoples.
> =

> --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Piotr Konieczny <piokon@post.pl>
> wrote:
> =

> > From: Piotr Konieczny <piokon@post.pl>
> > Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and
> others.
> > To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> > Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 6:42 AM
> > O. G. wrote:
> > > But in spite of that, for millions of Ukrainians
> UPA
> > always will be heroes, because they fought for the
> freedom
> > of their country. =

> > =

> > One men's
>  terrorist is another men's hero, and there is no
> > denying that. =

> > This is also an attitude of many Lithuanian editors,
> and
> > presumably a =

> > sentiment shared more widely among the eastern
> countries. I
> > can =

> > understand and I cannot blame those who after Soviet
> > repression saw =

> > German Nazis as liberators. They couldn't know
> what was
> > really going on.
> > =

> > Still, one should be able to admit one made a mistake.
> Just
> > as Poles =

> > should (and in some instances, did) apologize for the
> > exceptional but =

> > real massacres committed by AK and other Poles
> > (Jedwabne...), so should =

> > those who threw their lot in with the Nazis and worked
> with
> > them =

> > apologize for all the suffering that they caused.
> > =

> > Bottom line is that there is no white and black, there
> are
> > always shades =

> > of gray (but shades that can be
>  sometimes compared!), and
> > we have to =

> > admit that many heroes were also, at the same time,
> > criminals.
> > =

> > > PS I wouldn't be surprised if Russia were
> > clandestinely financing people in Poland bringing this
> issue
> > over and over again. Just a guess...
> > =

> > Good point, again. Let's not loose the sight of
> the bigger
> > picture.
> > =

> > -- =

> > Piotr Konieczny
> > =

> > "The problem about Wikipedia is, that it just
> works in
> > reality, not in =

> > theory."
> > =

> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> > folks@wikipedometer.net
> > http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
> > =

> =

> =

> =A0 =A0 =A0
> __________________________________________________________________
> Get the name you've always wanted @ymail.com or
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> =

> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
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> =

> =

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