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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:19:18 -0400
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From: Andrei Dombay <wikibiophys@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview:  To Ostap, Keeping certain articles in shape was one of
	the reasons I did not left long time ago. But I could not do it any
	more
	with articles like Litvinenko and Russian apartment bombings. R and O
	have won, let's put it straight. I failed. Now they can do whatever they
	want with articles on Russian politics, because no one cares about them
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Subject: Re: [WPM] To Dig, Bio and all who are considering leaving
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	Content preview:  To Ostap, Keeping certain articles in shape was one of
	the reasons I did not left long time ago. But I could not do it any more
	with articles like Litvinenko and Russian apartment bombings. R and O
	have won, let's put it straight. I failed. Now they can do whatever they
	want with articles on Russian politics, because no one cares about them
	(except Colchicum). If Colchicum remains active, I suggest you should
	look after his edits and help him. [...] 
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To Ostap,

Keeping certain articles in shape was one of the reasons I did not left long
time ago. But I could not do it any more with articles like Litvinenko and
Russian apartment bombings. R and O have won, let's put it straight. I
failed. Now they can do whatever they want with articles on Russian
politics, because no one  cares about them (except Colchicum). If Colchicum
remains active, I suggest you should look after  his edits and help him.

Jacob Peters will be back very soon.

I will be occasionally watching articles and let you know if something
drastic happens.

I still might be back in politics sections,  but only as Biophys. Even if I
edit Russian poets and writers (which I can easily do) under a different
nick, I would be detected by Alex immediately. He is main "watcher" and
controller of the Kremlin here, I believe. He is also very well informed
about everything in  Russian  wikipedia.

If you want more conspiracy theories, here it is. Muscovite99 said me that
administrator Mitrius from Russian wiki acted as a "yes man" of red-linked
FSB agent in Russian wiki SashaT (I must admit that SashaT is certainly such
after looking his edits on ruwiki; and the Mitrius occasionally edits here,
pretty much low-key). Looking at the recent events, I had an impression
that  admin J. acted as "yes man" of Offliner. J. first agreed with
Sandstein about closing the cases and closed the case of D. himself. Then
Offliner comes to him with complaints. J. suddenly files a ridiculous ArbCom
case and reopens AE cases. But perhaps he simply hates Digwuren? Yes, quite
possible.




On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 6:32 AM, radek szulga <rsszulga@gmail.com> wrote:

> I might steal some of these insights for an essay at some point. I
> think there's a definite over emphasis on generating new content -
> especially through the DYK awards - as opposed to making older
> articles better - there's no reward/incentive system for referencing
> an old, previously uncited article, or removing copy vio, or copy
> editing or even just removing blatant POV. Some of the
> reward/incentives for that kind of work are carried out through the
> "Project" system but overall you get a lot more brownie points in
> thinking up a new, sometimes even trivial, topic and starting from
> scratch rather than working with some of the messes that already
> exist.
>
> Radek
>
>
> 2009/6/23 Digwuren <digwuren@gmail.com>:
> > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 04:10, Piotr Konieczny <piokon@post.pl> wrote:
> >>
> >> Wiki can be stressful. I know it too, and I considered leaving too.
> >
> > I need to stress that it's not about wikis, it's about Wikipedia.
> >>
> >> But if you leave permanently, that would be a loss to Wikipedia. You all
> >
> > Aaand the cynic in me asks: why should I care about Wikipedia losing out?
> > I think I don't care.  But after yesterday, I'm not sure enough, so it'll
> > need some meditation.  In any case, I believe a more worthwile concern is
> > making sure that the topics I care about are accurately represented on
> > whatever Google puts atop its search list.
> > Interestingly, Wikipedia itself doesn't care about the quality of its
> > content; it only cares about quantity.  All the big celebratory events
> are
> > about Nth edit or Nth article created; article quality indicators are
> merely
> > footnotes.  Perhaps, even the "war on editwarring" is, to some degree,
> > rooted in this belief: a revert war is bad because half the edits in it
> > shrink the article.  "Obvious vandalism" is only excepted because it's
> not
> > about "edit-warring"; it's about *defacement*, and Wikipedia is a bit
> > sensitive about its image if not about its quality.  All in all, for
> > Wikipedia politics, caring about the quality of Wikipedia's content is a
> > vice, not a virtue.
> > I continue to believe that Wikipedia needs to be replaced with something
> > designed in a better way, with safeguards in place to keep it from
> repeating
> > Wikipedia's mistakes.  But that's probably far, far away in the future.
> > --
> > Andres Soolo
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> > folks@wikipedometer.net
> > http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> folks@wikipedometer.net
> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>

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To Ostap,<br><br>Keeping certain articles in shape was one of the reasons I=
 did not left long time ago. But I could not do it any more with articles l=
ike Litvinenko and Russian apartment bombings. R and O have won, let&#39;s =
put it straight. I failed. Now they can do whatever they want with articles=
 on Russian politics, because no one=A0 cares about them (except Colchicum)=
. If Colchicum remains active, I suggest you should look after=A0 his edits=
 and help him.<br>
<br>Jacob Peters will be back very soon.<br><br>I will be occasionally watc=
hing articles and let you know if something drastic happens.<br><br>I still=
 might be back in politics sections,=A0 but only as Biophys. Even if I edit=
 Russian poets and writers (which I can easily do) under a different nick, =
I would be detected by Alex immediately. He is main &quot;watcher&quot; and=
 controller of the Kremlin here, I believe. He is also very well informed a=
bout everything in=A0 Russian=A0 wikipedia.<br>
<br>If you want more conspiracy theories, here it is. Muscovite99 said me t=
hat administrator Mitrius from Russian wiki acted as a &quot;yes man&quot; =
of red-linked FSB agent in Russian wiki SashaT (I must admit that SashaT is=
 certainly such after looking his edits on ruwiki; and the Mitrius occasion=
ally edits here, pretty much low-key). Looking at the recent events, I had =
an impression that=A0 admin J. acted as &quot;yes man&quot; of Offliner. J.=
 first agreed with Sandstein about closing the cases and closed the case of=
 D. himself. Then Offliner comes to him with complaints. J. suddenly files =
a ridiculous  ArbCom case and reopens AE cases. But perhaps he simply hates=
 Digwuren? Yes, quite possible.<br>
<br><br><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 6:32 AM,=
 radek szulga <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rsszulga@gmail.com">r=
sszulga@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0=
.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
I might steal some of these insights for an essay at some point. I<br>
think there&#39;s a definite over emphasis on generating new content -<br>
especially through the DYK awards - as opposed to making older<br>
articles better - there&#39;s no reward/incentive system for referencing<br=
>
an old, previously uncited article, or removing copy vio, or copy<br>
editing or even just removing blatant POV. Some of the<br>
reward/incentives for that kind of work are carried out through the<br>
&quot;Project&quot; system but overall you get a lot more brownie points in=
<br>
thinking up a new, sometimes even trivial, topic and starting from<br>
scratch rather than working with some of the messes that already<br>
exist.<br>
<br>
Radek<br>
<br>
<br>
2009/6/23 Digwuren &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:digwuren@gmail.com">digwuren@gmail=
.com</a>&gt;:<br>
<div><div></div><div class=3D"h5">&gt; On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 04:10, Piotr=
 Konieczny &lt;piokon@post.pl&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Wiki can be stressful. I know it too, and I considered leaving too=
.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I need to stress that it&#39;s not about wikis, it&#39;s about Wikiped=
ia.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; But if you leave permanently, that would be a loss to Wikipedia. Y=
ou all<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Aaand the cynic in me asks: why should I care about Wikipedia losing o=
ut?<br>
&gt; I think I don&#39;t care. =A0But after yesterday, I&#39;m not sure eno=
ugh, so it&#39;ll<br>
&gt; need some meditation. =A0In any case, I believe a more worthwile conce=
rn is<br>
&gt; making sure that the topics I care about are accurately represented on=
<br>
&gt; whatever Google puts atop its search list.<br>
&gt; Interestingly, Wikipedia itself doesn&#39;t care about the quality of =
its<br>
&gt; content; it only cares about quantity. =A0All the big celebratory even=
ts are<br>
&gt; about Nth edit or Nth article created; article quality indicators are =
merely<br>
&gt; footnotes. =A0Perhaps, even the &quot;war on editwarring&quot; is, to =
some degree,<br>
&gt; rooted in this belief: a revert war is bad because half the edits in i=
t<br>
&gt; shrink the article. =A0&quot;Obvious vandalism&quot; is only excepted =
because it&#39;s not<br>
&gt; about &quot;edit-warring&quot;; it&#39;s about *defacement*, and Wikip=
edia is a bit<br>
&gt; sensitive about its image if not about its quality. =A0All in all, for=
<br>
&gt; Wikipedia politics, caring about the quality of Wikipedia&#39;s conten=
t is a<br>
&gt; vice, not a virtue.<br>
&gt; I continue to believe that Wikipedia needs to be replaced with somethi=
ng<br>
&gt; designed in a better way, with safeguards in place to keep it from rep=
eating<br>
&gt; Wikipedia&#39;s mistakes. =A0But that&#39;s probably far, far away in =
the future.<br>
&gt; --<br>
&gt; Andres Soolo<br>
&gt;<br>
</div></div><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5">&gt; ________________________=
_______________________<br>
&gt; Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a>=
<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a>=
<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=
=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>

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