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Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 11:24:34 -0500
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From: radek szulga <rsszulga@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview:  To the extent that there some truth in this, this is
	something that could normally be discussed and worked out. However
	there's basically no possible way to have a good faith discussion with
	Lokyz, MK or Dr. Dan. First time I "met" MK was when he tried to get me
	blocked for a dispute he wasn't even involved in, simply because he
	realized my nationality. But from what I know there was a lot more
	direct and willing collaboration in Lithuania than in Latvia. The other
	problem is that it is in fact Lokyz and Co. who cast this dispute in
	Pole vs. Lithuanian terms. Lots of Lithuanians didn't collaborate and
	many (like my grandfather) even joined the AK. There's definitely
	plenty
	of good in Polish-Lithuanian relations over the years - but it's Lokyz
	and Dr. Dan who try to downplay it as much as possible and instead
	focus
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Subject: Re: [WPM] Can Lokyz be reported?
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	Content preview:  To the extent that there some truth in this, this is
	something that could normally be discussed and worked out. However
	there's basically no possible way to have a good faith discussion with
	Lokyz, MK or Dr. Dan. First time I "met" MK was when he tried to get me
	blocked for a dispute he wasn't even involved in, simply because he
	realized my nationality. But from what I know there was a lot more
	direct and willing collaboration in Lithuania than in Latvia. The other
	problem is that it is in fact Lokyz and Co. who cast this dispute in
	Pole vs. Lithuanian terms. Lots of Lithuanians didn't collaborate and
	many (like my grandfather) even joined the AK. There's definitely plenty
	of good in Polish-Lithuanian relations over the years - but it's Lokyz
	and Dr. Dan who try to downplay it as much as possible and instead focus
	on the negatives which leads to the inevitable emnity. [...] 
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To the extent that there some truth in this, this is something that could
normally be discussed and worked out. However there's basically no possible
way to have a good faith discussion with Lokyz, MK or Dr. Dan.
First time I "met" MK was when he tried to get me blocked for a dispute he
wasn't even involved in, simply because he realized my nationality.
But from what I know there was a lot more direct and willing collaboration
in Lithuania than in Latvia. The other problem is that it is in fact Lokyz
and Co. who cast this dispute in Pole vs. Lithuanian terms. Lots of
Lithuanians didn't collaborate and many (like my grandfather) even joined
the AK. There's definitely plenty of good in Polish-Lithuanian relations
over the years - but it's Lokyz and Dr. Dan who try to downplay it as much
as possible and instead focus on the negatives which leads to the inevitable
emnity.

Radek

2009/8/16 <PetersJV@aol.com>

>  I think the issue is more that Lokyz is very pro Lithuanian. And I have
> to say that my own readings indicate the massive Nazi collaborationism being
> painted on WP (edits often involving our Polish editors) is not completely
> reflective of the facts. As in Latvia, the auxilliary police, for
> example, were not all involved in Nazi atrocities nor, given circumstances,
> can they all be described as willing participants or collaborators in the
> sense of then also acting against their own people.
>
> There is a clear undercurrent that Poles who killed Lithuanians were
> completely justified in doing so because they were all Nazi collaborators
> and that this all had nothing to do with the Polish-Lithuanian emnity built
> up between the wars. That's the real issue here.
>
> /Peters
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> folks@wikipedometer.net
> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>
>

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To the extent that there some truth in this, this is something that could n=
ormally be discussed and worked out. However there&#39;s basically no possi=
ble way to have a good faith discussion with Lokyz, MK or Dr. Dan.<br>First=
 time I &quot;met&quot; MK was when he tried to get me blocked for a disput=
e he wasn&#39;t even involved in, simply because he realized my nationality=
.<br>
But from what I know there was a lot more direct and willing collaboration =
in Lithuania than in Latvia. The other problem is that it is in fact Lokyz =
and Co. who cast this dispute in Pole vs. Lithuanian terms. Lots of Lithuan=
ians didn&#39;t collaborate and many (like my grandfather) even joined the =
AK. There&#39;s definitely plenty of good in Polish-Lithuanian relations ov=
er the years - but it&#39;s Lokyz and Dr. Dan who try to downplay it as muc=
h as possible and instead focus on the negatives which leads to the inevita=
ble emnity.<br>
<br>Radek<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2009/8/16  <span dir=3D"ltr">&l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:PetersJV@aol.com">PetersJV@aol.com</a>&gt;</span><br><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 20=
4, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">




<div style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial;"><f=
ont size=3D"2" color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial">
<div>I think the issue is more that Lokyz is very pro Lithuanian. And I hav=
e to=20
say that my own readings indicate the massive Nazi collaborationism being=
=20
painted on WP (edits often involving our Polish editors) is not completely=
=20
reflective of the facts. As in Latvia, the auxilliary police, for=20
example,=A0were not all involved in Nazi atrocities nor, given circumstance=
s,=20
can they all be described as willing participants or collaborators in the s=
ense=20
of then also acting against their own people.</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>There is a clear undercurrent that Poles who killed Lithuanians were=
=20
completely justified in doing so because they were all Nazi collaborators a=
nd=20
that this all had nothing to do with the Polish-Lithuanian emnity built up=
=20
between the wars. That&#39;s the real issue here.</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>/Peters</div></font><div><br><font style=3D"color: black; font-family:=
 arial,san-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: no=
rmal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-st=
retch: normal;"> <hr style=3D"margin-top: 10px;">
</font></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br>

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