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From: piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview:  Oh yes, I am one of these persons financed by the
	Russians. They have paid me 50 Belarusian rubles, since paying in
	Russian currency would be too obvious, and they wanted to keep it a
	secret. OK, let us be serious here. Ukrainian Insurgent Army commited
	atrocities on a large scale, in fact killing Polish civilians was the
	main activity of this organization for several months. Polish Home Army
	did commit crimes, but it never planned extermination of Polish
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	Bulba-Borovets. There are Ukrainian sources which support what I have
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	description of these massacres with a date and a location. Tymek [...] 
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Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and others.
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	Russian currency would be too obvious, and they wanted to keep it a
	secret. OK, let us be serious here. Ukrainian Insurgent Army commited
	atrocities on a large scale, in fact killing Polish civilians was the
	main activity of this organization for several months. Polish Home Army
	did commit crimes, but it never planned extermination of Polish
	minorities, not to mention carrying out such a plan. UIA is regarded as
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	them bandits, as this organization terrorized Ukrainians, and also
	killed thousands of their fellow countrymen, those who did not want to
	cooperate/kill their Polish neighbors, just look at the fate of
	Bulba-Borovets. There are Ukrainian sources which support what I have
	written. I am shocked that the great nation of Ukraine cannot find
	different role models than Roman Skuhevych, leader of Sluzba Bezpeky,
	one of the most murderous and fanatical organizations of WW2. It is
	interesting that the Ukrainian side frequently mentions atrocities
	commited by the Poles in Volhynia, but I have not seen a single
	description of these massacres with a date and a location. Tymek [...] 
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Oh yes, I am one of these persons financed by the Russians. They=A0have pai=
d me 50 Belarusian rubles, since paying in Russian currency would be too ob=
vious, and they wanted to keep it a secret.
=A0
OK, let us be serious here. Ukrainian Insurgent Army commited atrocities on=
 a large scale, in fact killing Polish civilians was the main activity of t=
his organization for several months. Polish Home Army did commit crimes, bu=
t it never planned extermination of Polish minorities, not to mention carry=
ing out such a plan.=20
=A0
UIA is regarded as heroes in Western Ukraine only, and also there older gen=
erations call them bandits, as this organization terrorized Ukrainians, and=
 also killed thousands of their fellow countrymen, those who did not want t=
o cooperate/kill their Polish neighbors, just look at the fate of Bulba-Bor=
ovets. There are Ukrainian sources which support what I have written. I am =
shocked that the great nation of Ukraine cannot find different role models =
than Roman Skuhevych, leader of Sluzba Bezpeky, one of the most murderous a=
nd fanatical organizations of WW2.
=A0
It is interesting that the Ukrainian side frequently mentions atrocities co=
mmited by the Poles in Volhynia, but I have not seen a single description o=
f these massacres with a date and a location.
=A0
Tymek
=A0

--- On Sun, 8/2/09, Piotr Konieczny <piokon@post.pl> wrote:


From: Piotr Konieczny <piokon@post.pl>
Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and others.
To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 6:42 PM


O. G. wrote:
> But in spite of that, for millions of Ukrainians UPA always will be heroe=
s, because they fought for the freedom of their country.=20

One men's terrorist is another men's hero, and there is no denying that.=20
This is also an attitude of many Lithuanian editors, and presumably a=20
sentiment shared more widely among the eastern countries. I can=20
understand and I cannot blame those who after Soviet repression saw=20
German Nazis as liberators. They couldn't know what was really going on.

Still, one should be able to admit one made a mistake. Just as Poles=20
should (and in some instances, did) apologize for the exceptional but=20
real massacres committed by AK and other Poles (Jedwabne...), so should=20
those who threw their lot in with the Nazis and worked with them=20
apologize for all the suffering that they caused.

Bottom line is that there is no white and black, there are always shades=20
of gray (but shades that can be sometimes compared!), and we have to=20
admit that many heroes were also, at the same time, criminals.

> PS I wouldn't be surprised if Russia were clandestinely financing people =
in Poland bringing this issue over and over again. Just a guess...

Good point, again. Let's not loose the sight of the bigger picture.

--=20
Piotr Konieczny

"The problem about Wikipedia is, that it just works in reality, not in=20
theory."

_______________________________________________
Wikipedia statistics discussion list
folks@wikipedometer.net
http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
=0A=0A=0A      
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<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><DIV>Oh yes, I am one of these persons financ=
ed by the Russians. They&nbsp;have paid me 50 Belarusian rubles, since payi=
ng in Russian currency would be too obvious, and they wanted to keep it a s=
ecret.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>OK, let us be serious here. Ukrainian Insurgent Army commited atrociti=
es on a large scale, in fact killing Polish civilians was the main activity=
 of this organization for several months. Polish Home Army did commit crime=
s, but it never planned extermination of Polish minorities, not to mention =
carrying out such a plan. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>UIA is regarded as heroes in Western Ukraine only, and also there olde=
r generations call them bandits, as this organization terrorized Ukrainians=
, and also killed thousands of their fellow countrymen, those who did not w=
ant to cooperate/kill their Polish neighbors, just look at the fate of Bulb=
a-Borovets. There are Ukrainian sources which support what I have written. =
I am shocked that the great nation of Ukraine cannot find different role mo=
dels than Roman Skuhevych, leader of Sluzba Bezpeky, one of the most murder=
ous and fanatical organizations of WW2.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>It is interesting that the Ukrainian side frequently mentions atrociti=
es commited by the Poles in Volhynia, but I have not seen a single descript=
ion of these massacres with a date and a location.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Tymek</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><BR>--- On <B>Sun, 8/2/09, Piotr Konieczny <I>&lt;piokon@post.pl&gt;</=
I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid"><BR>From: Piotr Konieczny &lt;piokon@post.pl&gt;<BR>S=
ubject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and others.<BR>To: "Wikiped=
ia statistics" &lt;folks@wikipedometer.net&gt;<BR>Date: Sunday, August 2, 2=
009, 6:42 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV class=3DplainMail>O. G. wrote:<BR>&gt; But in spite of that, for milli=
ons of Ukrainians UPA always will be heroes, because they fought for the fr=
eedom of their country. <BR><BR>One men's terrorist is another men's hero, =
and there is no denying that. <BR>This is also an attitude of many Lithuani=
an editors, and presumably a <BR>sentiment shared more widely among the eas=
tern countries. I can <BR>understand and I cannot blame those who after Sov=
iet repression saw <BR>German Nazis as liberators. They couldn't know what =
was really going on.<BR><BR>Still, one should be able to admit one made a m=
istake. Just as Poles <BR>should (and in some instances, did) apologize for=
 the exceptional but <BR>real massacres committed by AK and other Poles (Je=
dwabne...), so should <BR>those who threw their lot in with the Nazis and w=
orked with them <BR>apologize for all the suffering that they caused.<BR><B=
R>Bottom line is that there is no white and black, there are always
 shades <BR>of gray (but shades that can be sometimes compared!), and we ha=
ve to <BR>admit that many heroes were also, at the same time, criminals.<BR=
><BR>&gt; PS I wouldn't be surprised if Russia were clandestinely financing=
 people in Poland bringing this issue over and over again. Just a guess...<=
BR><BR>Good point, again. Let's not loose the sight of the bigger picture.<=
BR><BR>-- <BR>Piotr Konieczny<BR><BR>"The problem about Wikipedia is, that =
it just works in reality, not in <BR>theory."<BR><BR>______________________=
_________________________<BR>Wikipedia statistics discussion list<BR><A hre=
f=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net=
" ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</A><BR=
><A href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=
=3D_blank>http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</A><BR></=
DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table><br>=0A=0A      
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