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	Content preview:  On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 03:03, Martin
	<martint20@gmail.com> wrote: > Was Raid claiming the Estonian
	government
	was responsible for him > being drafted into the Soviet Army? That
	seems
	far fetched. No, he was claiming that Estonian government should
	consider him to be a repressee on the basis of his having been drafted
	by Soviets. See < http://www.riigiteataja.ee/ert/act.jsp?id=13065197>
	for the Act of Persons Repressed by Occupation Regimes, which defines
	this status and its consequences. In particular, Estonia does not take
	responsibility for the repressions by this law, but it attempts to
	alleviate some of the injustice afflicted. [...] 
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Subject: Re: [WPM] Raid's lawsuit for repressee status
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	Content preview:  On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 03:03, Martin
	<martint20@gmail.com> wrote: > Was Raid claiming the Estonian government
	was responsible for him > being drafted into the Soviet Army? That seems
	far fetched. No, he was claiming that Estonian government should
	consider him to be a repressee on the basis of his having been drafted
	by Soviets. See < http://www.riigiteataja.ee/ert/act.jsp?id=13065197>
	for the Act of Persons Repressed by Occupation Regimes, which defines
	this status and its consequences. In particular, Estonia does not take
	responsibility for the repressions by this law, but it attempts to
	alleviate some of the injustice afflicted. [...] 
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On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 03:03, Martin <martint20@gmail.com> wrote:

> Was Raid claiming the Estonian government was responsible for him
> being drafted into the Soviet Army? That seems far fetched.


No, he was claiming that Estonian government should consider him to be a
repressee on the basis of his having been drafted by Soviets.  See <
http://www.riigiteataja.ee/ert/act.jsp?id=3D13065197> for the Act of Person=
s
Repressed by Occupation Regimes, which defines this status and its
consequences.  In particular, Estonia does not take responsibility for the
repressions by this law, but it attempts to alleviate some of the injustice
afflicted.

On the other hand, isn't there a compensation fund set up by the
> government to financially assist Soviet era victims?


Not a fund per se, but there are certain budgeted benefits.  Most
importantly, there's a "health restoration support", available if requested
and documented, and limited to 2500 EEK per year (roughly, US$225 per year)=
;
there's a 50% discount on intercity bus and train transport, again availabl=
e
if requested and documented.  Also, repressed persons are admitted for free
into all state-run museums, to the Estonian Song Parties and Estonian Dance
Parties, and they're exempt from hobby fishing license fee.  That's it.

Presumably there
> are certain criteria for access to these funds, like being a deportee.


Yes, the criteria are in section 2 of the Act.  They go like this:

=C2=A72.  Unlawfully repressed person

(1) Unlawfully repressed person (henceforth, repressee) for purpose of
this law is a person who during repression was a citizen of Republic
of Estonia or, as of June 16th of 1940, a legal non-citizen permanent
resident of Estonia, except a person who came or was brought to
Estonia on basis of the treaty established between Republic of Estonia
and Soviet Union on September 28th of 1939 (the so-called treaty
> of military bases) ,

1) who is a victim of genocide, as it is specified in the 1948 convention o=
f
> avoiding and punishing genocide;

2) who was punished with imprisonment, deportation or psychiatric
> hospitalisation because of their beliefs, political or other views, racia=
l
> or ethnic identity, citizenship, heritage, social status or property;

3) who was punished with imprisonment or deportation for neglecting to
> fulfill a special duty established by an occupant state for its own citiz=
ens
> (armed service, loyalty to the state, forced worldview, prohibition of
> leaving a territory, etc.);

4) who was punished with imprisonment or deportation for his acts before th=
e
> occupations or during its temporary intermission, except if the acts woul=
d
> also have been punishable under laws of Republic of Estonia;

5) who was punished with imprisonment or deportation based on heritage or
> general personal attributes without determination of individual guilt;

6) who was punished with imprisonment or deportation for participation in a
> protest act of anti-occupation nature, in an act emphasising right of
> national self-determination or for attempt to exercise another
> internationally recognised human right or fundamental freedom,
> notwithstanding any criminal classification formally assigned by an occup=
ant
> country;

7) who was deported (including forcible migration) from his permanent
> residence located in occupied territory to territory of an occupant count=
ry
> or to territory of another country, be it occupied or not, or who was aft=
er
> end of his punishment forced to reside outside Estonia;

8) who was taken from Estonia to Soviet Union in 1941 and subjected to
> forced labour together with restrictions of freedom in a work battalion,
> construction column [as in, the military unit] or unit of work column or =
who
> was forcibly transferred to work outside Estonian territory during
> occupation by the Great Germany;

9) who after having been taken as a prisoner of war or as a repatriable
> person was subjected to forced labour together with restrictions of freed=
om
> in a work battalion, construction column or work column;

10) who, having been in hiding from unlawful repressions, was punished with
> imprisonment or deportation for an act or acts committed in condition of
> emergency defence or emergency state within boundaries set by laws of
> Republic of Estonia, except if the act would have also been punishable un=
der
> laws of Republic of Estonia;

11) who was prohibited from living in Estonia;

12) who was subjected to an irradiation experiment in connection with
> detonating a nuclear bomb;

13) who was forcibly transferred to a region of nuclear catastrophe for
> liquidation of the catastrophe's consequences.


> (2) Child of a person matching criteria in subsection (1) of this section
> who was born during its parent's deportation or imprisonment or after its
> parent's release but before the parent was granted a permission and actua=
l
> option to return to Estonia is also considered a repressee.


> (3) A person matching criteria in subsections (1) and (2) of this section
> is not considered a repressee if they have worked as staff of office
> applying repressions enumerated in subsection (1), except as low-level
> service or maintenance personnel, or who joined the CPSU(b) before Januar=
y
> 1st of 1954, or who was punished for a felony that would also have been
> punishable under laws of Republic of Estonia.


As you can see, under these criteria, draft into Soviet armed forces does
not qualify a person for repressee status; only punishment for refusing the
draft does.  But Raid is claiming that the law is incomplete, and draftees
into Soviet armed forces should also be considered repressees, based on
Geneva convention, which prohibits occupying state from drafting residents
of occupied territories.

Perhaps Raid was suing for access to this money. In that case his
> actions seem rather cynical.


The monetary value of the benefits associated with repressee status is not
large, and even what is available requires regular filing of paperwork.
 Raid is relatively rich; he is unlikely to care about this kind of income
for this kind of paperwork.

Estonian jurisprudence in general tends to frown on any sort of large
monetary compensation.  Even in civil personal injury suits cases, courts
have repeatedly upheld a principle saying that compensation for personal
injuries can not improve the victim's status above what they would have had
if there hadn't been any injuries.  The principle is somewhat controversial=
,
but not enough to have provoked any significant effort to change it.

Furthermore, I think the list of benefits for repressees was first set up i=
n
early 1990s, when the government wouldn't have been able to afford much mor=
e
than discounted bus rides and free museum admission.  Estonian state budget
in 1991 was 1.6 billion roubles; converting by the nominal rate of the 1992
monetary reform, it would have amounted to 160 million EEK; by market rates=
,
roughly 16 million USD.  In 1994, Estonian state budget was 5.8 billion EEK
which, if I recall the rates right, was then worth some 450 million USD.
 Both were quite a bit smaller than the post-2000 state budgets, such as th=
e
2009 one which (before the negative amendments) allocated expenditure of
98.7 billion EEK, or around 9 billion USD.

--=20
Andres Soolo

--001636c5ad388be2e6046db4a53b
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 03:03, Martin <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:martint20@gmail.com">martint20@gmail.com</a>=
&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0=
 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
Was Raid claiming the Estonian government was responsible for him<br>
being drafted into the Soviet Army? That seems far fetched.</blockquote><di=
v><br></div><div>No, he was claiming that Estonian government should consid=
er him to be a repressee on the basis of his having been drafted by Soviets=
. =C2=A0See &lt;<a href=3D"http://www.riigiteataja.ee/ert/act.jsp?id=3D1306=
5197">http://www.riigiteataja.ee/ert/act.jsp?id=3D13065197</a>&gt; for the =
Act of Persons Repressed by Occupation Regimes, which defines this status a=
nd its consequences. =C2=A0In particular, Estonia does not take responsibil=
ity for the repressions by this law, but it attempts to alleviate some of t=
he injustice afflicted.</div>
<div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">On the other hand, isn&#39;t=
 there a compensation fund set up by the<br>
government to financially assist Soviet era victims?</blockquote><div><br><=
/div><div>Not a fund per se, but there are certain budgeted benefits. =C2=
=A0Most importantly, there&#39;s a &quot;health restoration support&quot;, =
available if requested and documented, and limited to 2500 EEK per year (ro=
ughly, US$225 per year); there&#39;s a 50% discount on intercity bus and tr=
ain transport, again available if requested and documented. =C2=A0Also, rep=
ressed persons are admitted for free into all state-run museums, to the Est=
onian Song Parties and Estonian Dance Parties, and they&#39;re exempt from =
hobby fishing license fee. =C2=A0That&#39;s it.</div>
<div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Presumably there<br>
are certain criteria for access to these funds, like being a deportee.</blo=
ckquote><div><br></div><div>Yes,=C2=A0the=C2=A0criteria=C2=A0are=C2=A0in=C2=
=A0section=C2=A02=C2=A0of=C2=A0the=C2=A0Act.=C2=A0=C2=A0They=C2=A0go=C2=A0l=
ike=C2=A0this:</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.=
8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-=
left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex; ">
=C2=A72.=C2=A0=C2=A0Unlawfully=C2=A0repressed=C2=A0person</blockquote><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; m=
argin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-=
color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex; ">
(1)=C2=A0Unlawfully=C2=A0repressed=C2=A0person=C2=A0(henceforth,=C2=A0repre=
ssee)=C2=A0for=C2=A0purpose=C2=A0of=C2=A0this=C2=A0law=C2=A0is=C2=A0a=C2=A0=
person=C2=A0who=C2=A0during=C2=A0repression=C2=A0was=C2=A0a=C2=A0citizen=C2=
=A0of=C2=A0Republic=C2=A0of=C2=A0Estonia=C2=A0or,=C2=A0as=C2=A0of=C2=A0June=
=C2=A016th=C2=A0of=C2=A01940,=C2=A0a=C2=A0legal=C2=A0non-citizen=C2=A0perma=
nent=C2=A0resident=C2=A0of=C2=A0Estonia,=C2=A0except=C2=A0a=C2=A0person=C2=
=A0who=C2=A0came=C2=A0or=C2=A0was=C2=A0brought=C2=A0to=C2=A0Estonia=C2=A0on=
=C2=A0basis=C2=A0of=C2=A0the=C2=A0treaty=C2=A0established=C2=A0between=C2=
=A0Republic=C2=A0of=C2=A0Estonia=C2=A0and=C2=A0Soviet=C2=A0Union=C2=A0on=C2=
=A0September=C2=A028th=C2=A0of=C2=A01939=C2=A0(the=C2=A0so-called=C2=A0trea=
ty of=C2=A0military=C2=A0bases)=C2=A0,</blockquote>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0=
px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-=
left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex=
; ">
1) who is a victim of genocide, as it is specified in the 1948 convention o=
f avoiding and punishing genocide;</blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; marg=
in-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 20=
4); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex; ">
2) who was punished with imprisonment, deportation or psychiatric hospitali=
sation because of their beliefs, political or other views, racial or ethnic=
 identity, citizenship, heritage, social status or property;</blockquote>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0=
px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-=
left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex=
; ">
3) who was punished with imprisonment or deportation for neglecting to fulf=
ill a special duty established by an occupant state for its own citizens (a=
rmed service, loyalty to the state, forced worldview, prohibition of leavin=
g a territory, etc.);</blockquote>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0=
px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-=
left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex=
; ">
4) who was punished with imprisonment or deportation for his acts before th=
e occupations or during its temporary intermission, except if the acts woul=
d also have been punishable under laws of Republic of Estonia;</blockquote>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0=
px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-=
left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex=
; ">
5) who was punished with imprisonment or deportation based on heritage or g=
eneral personal attributes without determination of individual guilt;</bloc=
kquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-r=
ight: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-le=
ft: 1ex; ">
6) who was punished with imprisonment or deportation for participation in a=
 protest act of anti-occupation nature, in an act emphasising right of nati=
onal self-determination or for attempt to exercise another internationally =
recognised human right or fundamental freedom, notwithstanding any criminal=
 classification formally assigned by an occupant country;</blockquote>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0=
px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-=
left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex=
; ">
7) who was deported (including forcible migration) from his permanent resid=
ence located in occupied territory to territory of an occupant country or t=
o territory of another country, be it occupied or not, or who was after end=
 of his punishment forced to reside outside Estonia;</blockquote>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0=
px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-=
left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex=
; ">
8) who was taken from Estonia to Soviet Union in 1941 and subjected to forc=
ed labour together with restrictions of freedom in a work battalion, constr=
uction column [as in, the military unit] or unit of work column or who was =
forcibly transferred to work outside Estonian territory during occupation b=
y the Great Germany;</blockquote>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0=
px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-=
left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex=
; ">
9) who after having been taken as a prisoner of war or as a repatriable per=
son was subjected to forced labour together with restrictions of freedom in=
 a work battalion, construction column or work column;</blockquote><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; marg=
in-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-col=
or: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex; ">
10) who, having been in hiding from unlawful repressions, was punished with=
 imprisonment or deportation for an act or acts committed in condition of e=
mergency defence or emergency state within boundaries set by laws of Republ=
ic of Estonia, except if the act would have also been punishable under laws=
 of Republic of Estonia;</blockquote>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0=
px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-=
left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex=
; ">
11) who was prohibited from living in Estonia;</blockquote><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-botto=
m: 0px; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(=
204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex; ">
12) who was subjected to an irradiation experiment in connection with deton=
ating a nuclear bomb;</blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.=
8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-=
left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex; ">
13) who was forcibly transferred to a region of nuclear catastrophe for liq=
uidation of the catastrophe&#39;s consequences.</blockquote><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bott=
om: 0px; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb=
(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex; ">
<br></blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top: 0px=
; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-wi=
dth: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; =
padding-left: 1ex; ">
(2) Child of a person matching criteria in subsection (1) of this section w=
ho was born during its parent&#39;s deportation or imprisonment or after it=
s parent&#39;s release but before the parent was granted a permission and a=
ctual option to return to Estonia is also considered a repressee.</blockquo=
te>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0=
px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-=
left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex=
; ">
<br></blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top: 0px=
; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-wi=
dth: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; =
padding-left: 1ex; ">
(3) A person matching criteria in subsections (1) and (2) of this section i=
s not considered a repressee if they have worked as staff of office applyin=
g repressions enumerated in subsection (1), except as low-level service or =
maintenance personnel, or who joined the CPSU(b) before January 1st of 1954=
, or who was punished for a felony that would also have been punishable und=
er laws of Republic of Estonia.</blockquote>
<div><br></div><div>As you can see, under these criteria, draft into Soviet=
 armed forces does not qualify a person for repressee status; only punishme=
nt for refusing the draft does. =C2=A0But Raid is claiming that the law is =
incomplete, and draftees into Soviet armed forces should also be considered=
 repressees, based on Geneva convention, which prohibits occupying state fr=
om drafting residents of occupied territories.</div>
<div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Perhaps Raid was suing for a=
ccess to this money. In that case his<br>
actions seem rather cynical.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>The monetary v=
alue of the benefits associated with repressee status is not large, and eve=
n what is available requires regular filing of paperwork. =C2=A0Raid is rel=
atively rich; he is unlikely to care about this kind of income for this kin=
d of paperwork.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Estonian jurisprudence in general tends to frown on any=
 sort of large monetary compensation. =C2=A0Even in civil personal injury s=
uits cases, courts have repeatedly upheld a principle saying that compensat=
ion for personal injuries can not improve the victim&#39;s status above wha=
t they would have had if there hadn&#39;t been any injuries. =C2=A0The prin=
ciple is somewhat controversial, but not enough to have provoked any signif=
icant effort to change it.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Furthermore, I think the list of benefits for repressee=
s was first set up in early 1990s, when the government wouldn&#39;t have be=
en able to afford much more than discounted bus rides and free museum admis=
sion. =C2=A0Estonian state budget in 1991 was 1.6 billion roubles; converti=
ng by the nominal rate of the 1992 monetary reform, it would have amounted =
to 160 million EEK; by market rates, roughly 16 million USD. =C2=A0In 1994,=
 Estonian state budget was 5.8 billion EEK which, if I recall the rates rig=
ht, was then worth some 450 million USD. =C2=A0Both were quite a bit smalle=
r than the post-2000 state budgets, such as the 2009 one which (before the =
negative amendments) allocated expenditure of 98.7 billion EEK, or around 9=
 billion USD.</div>
<div><br></div></div>-- <br>Andres Soolo<br>

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