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From: piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview:  The AK structures in Volhynia did not really develop
	until late 1943, after main waves of massacres. Bear in mind that most
	men capable of organizing defence had been taken to Siberia by the
	Soviets in 1940. Former Polish policemen and officers were shot in
	Katyn, and the Soviets even took Polish foresters, also all osadniks.
	What remained of Polish population of Volhynia were peasants, poor as
	their Ukrainian neighbors. AK Volhynian Division was made of those who
	organized Polish defence strongholds in Volhynia - Huta Stepanska or
	Przebraze. Almost all of them had seen their families killed by axes and
	spades in summer 1943. Â Tymek [...] 
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Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and others.
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	Content preview:  The AK structures in Volhynia did not really develop
	until late 1943, after main waves of massacres. Bear in mind that most
	men capable of organizing defence had been taken to Siberia by the
	Soviets in 1940. Former Polish policemen and officers were shot in
	Katyn, and the Soviets even took Polish foresters, also all osadniks.
	What remained of Polish population of Volhynia were peasants, poor as
	their Ukrainian neighbors. AK Volhynian Division was made of those who
	organized Polish defence strongholds in Volhynia - Huta Stepanska or
	Przebraze. Almost all of them had seen their families killed by axes and
	spades in summer 1943. Â Tymek [...] 
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The AK structures in Volhynia did not really develop until late 1943, after=
 main waves of massacres. Bear in mind that most men capable of organizing =
defence had been taken to Siberia by the Soviets in 1940. Former Polish pol=
icemen and officers were shot in Katyn, and the Soviets even took Polish fo=
resters, also all osadniks. What remained of Polish population of Volhynia =
were peasants, poor as their Ukrainian neighbors. AK Volhynian Division was=
 made of those who organized Polish defence strongholds in Volhynia - Huta =
Stepanska or Przebraze. Almost all of them had seen their families killed b=
y axes and spades in summer 1943.
=C2=A0
Tymek

--- On Mon, 8/3/09, radek szulga <rsszulga@gmail.com> wrote:


From: radek szulga <rsszulga@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and others.
To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 9:07 AM



The thing is, neither Operation Wisla nor the 1930 "Pacification" have anyt=
hing to do with the AK.
So with regard to AK please note that a lot of the alleged crimes:
*happened according to Communist propaganda or are sourced to Soviet partis=
ans operating in Ukraine and Belarus. It is also important to remember that=
 communist propaganda tried to smear BOTH the AK and the UPA. Oftentimes cr=
imes which were perpetrated by common bandits, or even the Communistis them=
selves were attributed to the AK or UPA. The difference is that the massacr=
es that happened in Volhynia and E. Galicia have been verified independentl=
y where as a lot of the "AK did this..." stuff can be traced ONLY to commun=
ist sources.
*some of these crimes were carried out by "rogue" AK units or by bandit org=
anizations which called themselves the AK but were not in fact associated w=
ith the organization. The name of the most notorious commander here - a guy=
 who got kicked out of the AK and court martialed in absentia for being too=
 trigger happy - escapes me at the moment (I wanna say Kmicic, but there we=
re, unsuprisingly, several partisan commanders who called themselves Kmicic=
) - but his case was typical. The important point is that the atrocities th=
at happened, were 1) on a much smaller scale then the Volhynia massacres, 2=
) were in fact carried out by non-AK soldiers and in direct contravention o=
f AK's command orders - unlike UPA.
*Out of those 20,000 mentioned in the Cienciala article a lot of them were =
members of UPA itself who died when the Poles of Volhynia decided to defend=
 themselves.
=C2=A0
This kind of moral equivocation is very dangerous. For example, some Americ=
an forces/soldiers in World War Two executed their German POWs and committe=
d a few atrocities,=C2=A0 but that does not justify comparing the American =
Army in WWII to say, the SS, or the Werhmacht for that matter - because the=
se kinds of actions were the exception not the rule. Same with AK. If you h=
ave an organization of 800,000 people, just from point of view of probabili=
ty and statistics at least some small portion of this 800,000 is going to c=
ommit criminal acts. But that's totally different than an entire organizati=
on - UPA-Bandera - committing criminal acts.
=C2=A0
Another thing that should give one pause is the fact that - as you=C2=A0say=
 - the issue of UPA is very divisive in Ukraine (since they also targeted U=
krainians whom they judged not to be extreme enough). But AK in Poland, som=
e left over commies aside, is not controversial or divisive and is widely r=
espected. I think maybe the situation with the NSZ in Poland would be simil=
ar (freedom fighters, but also often chauvinists and occasionally murderers=
).
=C2=A0
Basically, if you want to talk about Operation Wisla and the interwar repre=
ssions against Ukrainians by the Polish government you're on much stronger =
ground. But, again, comparing AK to UPA is inappropriate.
=C2=A0
Radek


2009/8/3 O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>


True. Except operation Wisla was not part of the population exchange and Uk=
rainians were simply evicted, dispersed and resettled in the newly acquired=
 territories in the west of the country. All that was accompanied by killin=
gs of those who resisted or was suspected of subversive activities.


--- On Mon, 8/3/09, Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and others.
> To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:57 AM



> Well, since the Ukrainian population
> was reckognised as part of Soviet
> Union, and Soviet Union did sign an agreement with
> Communists in
> Poland about the population change, this would make it a
> population
> exchange between two states. The manner or methods used
> wouldn't
> really change that.
>
> 2009/8/3 O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>:
> >
> > There is no comparison between population exchanges
> and operation Wisla. Population exchanges were in many cases
> voluntary, especially with respect to Poles getting away
> from the Stalin's paradise. During operation Wisla they
> evicted people from their homes, killing many in the
> process. No comparison.
> >
> > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek
> and others.
> >> To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> >> Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:25 AM
> >> " Is resettlement the same as
> >> ethnical cleansing?"
> >> Some scholars do indeed term it as such. Although
> just
> >> like
> >> resettlement of Poles from Soviet Union under
> international
> >> agreements
> >> I would not term it myself it in such way.
> >>
> >> 2009/8/3 piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>:
> >> > Is resettlement the same as ethnical
> cleansing?
> >> Operation Wisla was shameful
> >> > and Polish govt rightfully apologized for
> it.
> >> Nevertheless, it was not a
> >> > mass murder of Ukrainians and you know it.
> >> >
> >> > Tymek
> >> >
> >> > --- On Sun, 8/2/09, O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > From: O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>
> >> > Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus,
> Tymek and
> >> others.
> >> > To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> >> > Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 10:57 PM
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Gee, what a question! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wis=C5=
=82a
> >> >
> >> > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> From: piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
> >> >> Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek ,
> Piotrus, Tymek
> >> and others.
> >> >> To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> >> >> Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 10:36
> AM
> >> >> Hillock, let us be realistic.
> >> >> When did Polish government ethnically
> cleanse the
> >> >> Ukrainians?
> >> >>
> >> >> Tymek
> >> >>
> >> >> --- On Sun, 8/2/09, O. G.
> >> >> <hillock@yahoo.ca>
> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> From: O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>
> >> >> Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek ,
> Piotrus, Tymek
> >> and
> >> >> others.
> >> >> To: "Wikipedia statistics"
> >> >> <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> >> >> Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 10:20 PM
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> I already wrote, UPA is not recognized by
> the
> >> Ukrainian
> >> >> state. It has nothing to apologize for.
> Unlike the
> >> POLISH
> >> >> STATE that subjugated, assimilated,
> persecuted
> >> and
> >> >> ethnically clensed Ukrainians.
> Apologizing for the
> >> deeds of
> >> >> UPA by the state officials would be
> tantamount to
> >> state
> >> >> recognizing it and as such it is a very
> divisive
> >> issue, all
> >> >> politicians shy from it. And if it
> happened, I
> >> should hope
> >> >> Poles will appologize for the atrocities
> commited
> >> by the AK.
> >> >> For the life of me I cannot see what good
> it will
> >> bring?!!
> >> >> All this moaning and going through
> decomposed
> >> bodies and
> >> >> mutual accusations does nothing, but
> devides.
> >> >>
> >> >> --- On Mon, 8/3/09, piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > From: piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
> >> >> > Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek ,
> Piotrus,
> >> Tymek and
> >> >> others.
> >> >> > To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> >> >> > Received: Monday, August 3, 2009,
> 9:42 AM
> >> >> > For starters, there has been no
> >> >> > single apology from the Ukrainian
> side. What
> >> is more
> >> >> > important, 80% bones of Poles
> murdered in
> >> >> Volhynia have
> >> >> > not been properly buried, and lie
> there in
> >> Volhynian
> >> >> and
> >> >> > Podolian fields, among villages
> burned to the
> >> ground.
> >> >> > Don't you think that Ukrainian
> authorities
> >> should
> >> >> at
> >> >> > least give permission for
> exhumations of
> >> these
> >> >> remains?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > It is not about playing UPA card. It
> is
> >> about
> >> >> > remembering history and those who
> were
> >> murdered for
> >> >> nothing.
> >> >> > Should we all sweep this
> >> >>=C2=A0 topic under the carpet and forget
> >> >> > it forever? If so, let us erase all
> history
> >> articles
> >> >> on
> >> >> > Wikipedia, and demand closing of all
> museums,
> >> with
> >> >> Museum of
> >> >> > Holocaust as first.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Tymek
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --- On Sun, 8/2/09, O. G.
> >> >> > <hillock@yahoo.ca>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > From: O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>
> >> >> > Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek ,
> Piotrus,
> >> Tymek and
> >> >> > others.
> >> >> > To: "Wikipedia statistics"
> >> >> > <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> >> >> > Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 8:33
> PM
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I was just wondering
> >> >>=C2=A0 how many apologizing does it take to
> >> >> > put this thing behind us? People
> keep
> >> forgetting that
> >> >> issue
> >> >> > of UPA is very divisive in Ukraine
> and it
> >> runs along
> >> >> > linguistic and geopolitical
> divisions as
> >> well. There
> >> >> are
> >> >> > millions of Ukrainians who will
> always regard
> >> UPA as
> >> >> heroes
> >> >> > in spite of everything, just because
> in
> >> Western
> >> >> Ukraine
> >> >> > every other family was associated
> with them
> >> in some
> >> >> way or
> >> >> > suffered collective punishment for
> their
> >> activities.
> >> >> Yet on
> >> >> > the state level UPA is still not
> recognized
> >> as the
> >> >> WWII
> >> >> > participant. I am from central
> Ukraine and
> >> have
> >> >> nothing to
> >> >> > do with UPA but still consider them
> heroes
> >> just as the
> >> >> Red
> >> >> > Army vets, because millions of my
> compatriots
> >> do so on
> >> >> both
> >> >> > sides of the divide. There are
> different
> >> views on this
> >> >> in
> >> >> > every family, people don't bring it
> up in
> >> company.
> >> >> It is
> >> >> > EXTREMELY divisive and volatile
> topic,
> >> interference
> >> >> of
> >> >> >
> >> >>=C2=A0 outsiders in this brings it to the
> whole new
> >> level. I
> >> >> only
> >> >> > hope Poland won't
> >> >> >=C2=A0 be playing the UPA card
> >> >> > as Russia has for so many years. It
> will be
> >> >> devastating for
> >> >> > both peoples.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Piotr Konieczny
> <piokon@post.pl>
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > From: Piotr Konieczny <piokon@post.pl>
> >> >> > > Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek
> ,
> >> Piotrus, Tymek
> >> >> and
> >> >> > others.
> >> >> > > To: "Wikipedia statistics"
> <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> >> >> > > Received: Monday, August 3,
> 2009, 6:42
> >> AM
> >> >> > > O. G. wrote:
> >> >> > > > But in
> >> >>=C2=A0 spite of that, for millions of
> Ukrainians
> >> >> > UPA
> >> >> > > always will be heroes, because
> they
> >> fought for
> >> >> the
> >> >> > freedom
> >> >> > > of their country.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > One men's
> >> >> >=C2=A0 terrorist is another men's hero,
> and
> >> there
> >> >> is no
> >> >> > > denying that.
> >> >> > > This is also an attitude of
> many
> >> Lithuanian
> >> >> editors,
> >> >> > and
> >> >> > > presumably a
> >> >> > > sentiment shared more widely
> among the
> >> eastern
> >> >> > countries. I
> >> >> > > can
> >> >> > > understand and I cannot blame
> those who
> >> after
> >> >> Soviet
> >> >> > > repression saw
> >> >> > > German Nazis as liberators.
> They
> >> couldn't
> >> >> know
> >> >> > what was
> >> >> > > really going on.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Still, one should be able to
> admit one
> >> made a
> >> >> mistake.
> >> >> > Just
> >> >> > > as Poles
> >> >> > > should (and in some instances,
> did)
> >> apologize for
> >> >> the
> >> >> > > exceptional but
> >> >> > > real massacres committed by AK
> and
> >> >>=C2=A0 other Poles
> >> >> > > (Jedwabne...), so should
> >> >> > > those who threw their lot in
> with the
> >> Nazis and
> >> >> worked
> >> >> > with
> >> >> > > them
> >> >> > > apologize for all the suffering
> that
> >> they
> >> >> caused.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Bottom line is that there is no
> white
> >> and black,
> >> >> there
> >> >> > are
> >> >> > > always shades
> >> >> > > of gray (but shades that can
> be
> >> >> >=C2=A0 sometimes compared!), and
> >> >> > > we have to
> >> >> > > admit that many heroes were
> also, at the
> >> same
> >> >> time,
> >> >> > > criminals.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > > PS I wouldn't be surprised
> if
> >> Russia
> >> >> were
> >> >> > > clandestinely financing people
> in Poland
> >> bringing
> >> >> this
> >> >> > issue
> >> >> > > over and over again. Just a
> guess...
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Good point, again. Let's not
> loose the
> >> sight
> >> >> of
> >> >> > the bigger
> >> >> > > picture.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > --
> >> >> > > Piotr Konieczny
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > "The problem about
> >> >>=C2=A0 Wikipedia is, that it just
> >> >> > works in
> >> >> > > reality, not in
> >> >> > > theory."
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> > > Wikipedia statistics discussion
> list
> >> >> > > folks@wikipedometer.net
> >> >> > > http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
> >> >> > >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >>
> __________________________________________________________________
> >> >> > Get the name you've always wanted
> @ymail.com
> >> or
> >> >> > @rocketmail.com! Go to http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/jacko/
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> > Wikipedia statistics discussion
> >> >>=C2=A0 list
> >> >> > folks@wikipedometer.net
> >> >> > http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> > Wikipedia statistics discussion
> list
> >> >> > folks@wikipedometer.net
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> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> __________________________________________________________________
> >> >> Yahoo! Canada Toolbar:
> >> >>=C2=A0 Search from anywhere on the web, and
> >> bookmark your
> >> >> favourite sites. Download it now
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> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> >> >> folks@wikipedometer.net
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> >> >>
> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> >> >> folks@wikipedometer.net
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> >> >
> _______________________________________________
> >> > Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> >> > folks@wikipedometer.net
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> >> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> >> folks@wikipedometer.net
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<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><DIV>The AK structures in Volhynia did not re=
ally develop until late 1943, after main waves of massacres. Bear in mind t=
hat most men capable of organizing defence had been taken to Siberia by the=
 Soviets in 1940. Former Polish policemen and officers were shot in Katyn, =
and the Soviets even took Polish foresters, also all osadniks. What remaine=
d of Polish population of Volhynia were peasants, poor as their Ukrainian n=
eighbors. AK Volhynian Division was made of those who organized Polish defe=
nce strongholds in Volhynia - Huta Stepanska or Przebraze. Almost all of th=
em had seen their families killed by axes and spades in summer 1943.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Tymek<BR><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 8/3/09, radek szulga <I>&lt;rsszulga@gmail=
.com&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid"><BR>From: radek szulga &lt;rsszulga@gmail.com&gt;<BR>=
Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and others.<BR>To: "Wikipe=
dia statistics" &lt;folks@wikipedometer.net&gt;<BR>Date: Monday, August 3, =
2009, 9:07 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=3Dyiv740185786>
<DIV>The thing is, neither Operation Wisla nor the 1930 "Pacification" have=
 anything to do with the AK.</DIV>
<DIV>So with regard to AK please note that a lot of the alleged crimes:</DI=
V>
<DIV>*happened according to Communist propaganda or are sourced to Soviet p=
artisans operating in Ukraine and Belarus. It is also important to remember=
 that communist propaganda tried to smear BOTH the AK and the UPA. Oftentim=
es crimes which were perpetrated by common bandits, or even the Communistis=
 themselves were attributed to the AK or UPA. The difference is that the ma=
ssacres that happened in Volhynia and E. Galicia have been verified indepen=
dently where as a lot of the "AK did this..." stuff can be traced ONLY to c=
ommunist sources.</DIV>
<DIV>*some of these crimes were carried out by "rogue" AK units or by bandi=
t organizations which called themselves the AK but were not in fact associa=
ted with the organization. The name of the most notorious commander here - =
a guy who got kicked out of the AK and court martialed in absentia for bein=
g too trigger happy - escapes me at the moment (I wanna say Kmicic, but the=
re were, unsuprisingly, several partisan commanders who called themselves K=
micic) - but his case was typical. The important point is that the atrociti=
es that happened, were 1) on a much smaller scale then the Volhynia massacr=
es, 2) were in fact carried out by non-AK soldiers and in direct contravent=
ion of AK's command orders - unlike UPA.</DIV>
<DIV>*Out of those 20,000 mentioned in the Cienciala article a lot of them =
were members of UPA itself who died when the Poles of Volhynia decided to d=
efend themselves.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>This kind of moral equivocation is very dangerous. For example, some A=
merican forces/soldiers in World War Two executed their German POWs and com=
mitted a few atrocities,&nbsp; but that does not justify comparing the Amer=
ican Army in WWII to say, the SS, or the Werhmacht for that matter - becaus=
e these kinds of actions were the exception not the rule. Same with AK. If =
you have an organization of 800,000 people, just from point of view of prob=
ability and statistics at least some small portion of this 800,000 is going=
 to commit criminal acts. But that's totally different than an entire organ=
ization - UPA-Bandera - committing criminal acts.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Another thing that should give one pause is the fact that - as you&nbs=
p;say - the issue of UPA is very divisive in Ukraine (since they also targe=
ted Ukrainians whom they judged not to be extreme enough). But AK in Poland=
, some left over commies aside, is not controversial or divisive and is wid=
ely respected. I think maybe the situation with the NSZ in Poland would be =
similar (freedom fighters, but also often chauvinists and occasionally murd=
erers).</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Basically, if you want to talk about Operation Wisla and the interwar =
repressions against Ukrainians by the Polish government you're on much stro=
nger ground. But, again, comparing AK to UPA is inappropriate.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Radek<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>2009/8/3 O. G. <SPAN dir=3Dltr>&lt;<A href=3D"http=
://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dhillock@yahoo.ca" target=3D_blan=
k rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:hillock@yahoo.ca">hillock@yahoo.ca</A>&g=
t;</SPAN><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px=
 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"><BR>True. Except operation Wisla w=
as not part of the population exchange and Ukrainians were simply evicted, =
dispersed and resettled in the newly acquired territories in the west of th=
e country. All that was accompanied by killings of those who resisted or wa=
s suspected of subversive activities.<BR>
<DIV class=3Dim><BR>--- On Mon, 8/3/09, Molobo Molobo &lt;<A href=3D"http:/=
/us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dmolobus@gmail.com" target=3D_blank=
 rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:molobus@gmail.com">molobus@gmail.com</A>&=
gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; From: Molobo Molobo &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc328.m=
ail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dmolobus@gmail.com" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofo=
llow ymailto=3D"mailto:molobus@gmail.com">molobus@gmail.com</A>&gt;<BR>&gt;=
 Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and others.<BR>&gt; To: "=
Wikipedia statistics" &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/comp=
ose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D=
"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</A>&gt;<BR></DIV>&=
gt; Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:57 AM<BR>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3Dh5>&gt; Well, since the Ukrainian population<BR>&gt; was recko=
gnised as part of Soviet<BR>&gt; Union, and Soviet Union did sign an agreem=
ent with<BR>&gt; Communists in<BR>&gt; Poland about the population change, =
this would make it a<BR>&gt; population<BR>&gt; exchange between two states=
. The manner or methods used<BR>&gt; wouldn't<BR>&gt; really change that.<B=
R>&gt;<BR>&gt; 2009/8/3 O. G. &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com=
/mc/compose?to=3Dhillock@yahoo.ca" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=
=3D"mailto:hillock@yahoo.ca">hillock@yahoo.ca</A>&gt;:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;=
 &gt; There is no comparison between population exchanges<BR>&gt; and opera=
tion Wisla. Population exchanges were in many cases<BR>&gt; voluntary, espe=
cially with respect to Poles getting away<BR>&gt; from the Stalin's paradis=
e. During operation Wisla they<BR>&gt; evicted people from their homes, kil=
ling many in the<BR>&gt; process. No comparison.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; =
--- On
 Mon, 8/3/09, Molobo Molobo &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/m=
c/compose?to=3Dmolobus@gmail.com" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D=
"mailto:molobus@gmail.com">molobus@gmail.com</A>&gt;<BR>&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;=
 &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; From: Molobo Molobo &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc328.m=
ail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dmolobus@gmail.com" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofo=
llow ymailto=3D"mailto:molobus@gmail.com">molobus@gmail.com</A>&gt;<BR>&gt;=
 &gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek<BR>&gt; and othe=
rs.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; To: "Wikipedia statistics" &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc=
328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" target=3D_blank=
 rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedome=
ter.net</A>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:25 AM=
<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; " Is resettlement the same as<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; ethnical c=
leansing?"<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Some scholars do indeed term it as such. Althou=
gh<BR>&gt; just<BR>&gt;
 &gt;&gt; like<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; resettlement of Poles from Soviet Union und=
er<BR>&gt; international<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; agreements<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; I wou=
ld not term it myself it in such way.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; 200=
9/8/3 piotr micula &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose=
?to=3Dbasiaipiotr@yahoo.com" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mail=
to:basiaipiotr@yahoo.com">basiaipiotr@yahoo.com</A>&gt;:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &=
gt; Is resettlement the same as ethnical<BR>&gt; cleansing?<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt=
; Operation Wisla was shameful<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; and Polish govt rightf=
ully apologized for<BR>&gt; it.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Nevertheless, it was not a=
<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; mass murder of Ukrainians and you know it.<BR>&gt; &=
gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Tymek<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;=
&gt; &gt; --- On Sun, 8/2/09, O. G. &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yah=
oo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dhillock@yahoo.ca" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow
 ymailto=3D"mailto:hillock@yahoo.ca">hillock@yahoo.ca</A>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&=
gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; From: O. G. &lt;<A h=
ref=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dhillock@yahoo.ca" tar=
get=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:hillock@yahoo.ca">hillock@yah=
oo.ca</A>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotr=
us,<BR>&gt; Tymek and<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; others.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; To: "W=
ikipedia statistics" &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compo=
se?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"=
mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</A>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt=
;&gt; &gt; Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 10:57 PM<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>=
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Gee, what a question! <A href=3D"h=
ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wis" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>h=
ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wis</A>=C5=82a<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<=
BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; ---
 On Mon, 8/3/09, piotr micula &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com=
/mc/compose?to=3Dbasiaipiotr@yahoo.com" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymai=
lto=3D"mailto:basiaipiotr@yahoo.com">basiaipiotr@yahoo.com</A>&gt;<BR>&gt; =
&gt;&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; From: piotr=
 micula &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dbasia=
ipiotr@yahoo.com" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:basiaipi=
otr@yahoo.com">basiaipiotr@yahoo.com</A>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Subj=
ect: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek ,<BR>&gt; Piotrus, Tymek<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; and o=
thers.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; To: "Wikipedia statistics" &lt;<A href=3D"=
http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" tar=
get=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folk=
s@wikipedometer.net</A>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Received: Monday, Aug=
ust 3, 2009, 10:36<BR>&gt; AM<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Hillock, let us be =
realistic.<BR>&gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; When did Polish government ethnically<BR>&gt; cleanse th=
e<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Ukrainians?<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &=
gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Tymek<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; =
--- On Sun, 8/2/09, O. G.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;<A href=3D"http://u=
s.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dhillock@yahoo.ca" target=3D_blank re=
l=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:hillock@yahoo.ca">hillock@yahoo.ca</A>&gt;<B=
R>&gt; &gt;&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<=
BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; From: O. G. &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.y=
ahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dhillock@yahoo.ca" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow y=
mailto=3D"mailto:hillock@yahoo.ca">hillock@yahoo.ca</A>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt=
; &gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek ,<BR>&gt; Piotrus, Tymek<BR>&gt;=
 &gt;&gt; and<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; others.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; T=
o: "Wikipedia statistics"<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;<A
 href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer=
.net" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.=
net">folks@wikipedometer.net</A>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Date: Sunday=
, August 2, 2009, 10:20 PM<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&=
gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; I already wrote, UP=
A is not recognized by<BR>&gt; the<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Ukrainian<BR>&gt; &gt;&=
gt; &gt;&gt; state. It has nothing to apologize for.<BR>&gt; Unlike the<BR>=
&gt; &gt;&gt; POLISH<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; STATE that subjugated, assim=
ilated,<BR>&gt; persecuted<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; and<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; e=
thnically clensed Ukrainians.<BR>&gt; Apologizing for the<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; =
deeds of<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; UPA by the state officials would be<BR>&=
gt; tantamount to<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; state<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; recogniz=
ing it and as such it is a very<BR>&gt; divisive<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; issue,
 all<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; politicians shy from it. And if it<BR>&gt; h=
appened, I<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; should hope<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Poles wil=
l appologize for the atrocities<BR>&gt; commited<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; by the AK=
.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; For the life of me I cannot see what good<BR>&g=
t; it will<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; bring?!!<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; All this moa=
ning and going through<BR>&gt; decomposed<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; bodies and<BR>&g=
t; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; mutual accusations does nothing, but<BR>&gt; devides.<=
BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; --- On Mon, 8/3/09, pio=
tr micula &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dbas=
iaipiotr@yahoo.com" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:basiai=
piotr@yahoo.com">basiaipiotr@yahoo.com</A>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; wr=
ote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; From: piotr m=
icula &lt;<A
 href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dbasiaipiotr@yahoo.c=
om" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:basiaipiotr@yahoo.com"=
>basiaipiotr@yahoo.com</A>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: =
[WPM] HELP!! Radek ,<BR>&gt; Piotrus,<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Tymek and<BR>&gt; &g=
t;&gt; &gt;&gt; others.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; To: "Wikipedia stati=
stics" &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@=
wikipedometer.net" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@w=
ikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</A>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;=
 &gt; Received: Monday, August 3, 2009,<BR>&gt; 9:42 AM<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &g=
t;&gt; &gt; For starters, there has been no<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; =
single apology from the Ukrainian<BR>&gt; side. What<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; is mo=
re<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; important, 80% bones of Poles<BR>&gt; mur=
dered in<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Volhynia have<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; =
&gt; not been
 properly buried, and lie<BR>&gt; there in<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Volhynian<BR>&g=
t; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; and<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Podolian fields, am=
ong villages<BR>&gt; burned to the<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; ground.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt=
; &gt;&gt; &gt; Don't you think that Ukrainian<BR>&gt; authorities<BR>&gt; =
&gt;&gt; should<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; at<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;=
 least give permission for<BR>&gt; exhumations of<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; these<BR=
>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; remains?<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt=
;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; It is not about playing UPA card. It<BR>&gt; is<BR>&gt;=
 &gt;&gt; about<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; remembering history and thos=
e who<BR>&gt; were<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; murdered for<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; =
nothing.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Should we all sweep this<BR>&gt; &g=
t;&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; topic under the carpet and forget<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &g=
t;&gt; &gt; it forever? If so, let us erase all<BR>&gt;
 history<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; articles<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; on<BR>&gt; &gt=
;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Wikipedia, and demand closing of all<BR>&gt; museums,<B=
R>&gt; &gt;&gt; with<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Museum of<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &=
gt;&gt; &gt; Holocaust as first.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt=
;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Tymek<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &=
gt;&gt; &gt; --- On Sun, 8/2/09, O. G.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &lt;<=
A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dhillock@yahoo.ca" =
target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:hillock@yahoo.ca">hillock@=
yahoo.ca</A>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;=
 &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; From: O=
. G. &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dhillock@=
yahoo.ca" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:hillock@yahoo.ca=
">hillock@yahoo.ca</A>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [WPM=
] HELP!!
 Radek ,<BR>&gt; Piotrus,<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Tymek and<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&=
gt; &gt; others.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; To: "Wikipedia statistics"<=
BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.co=
m/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow y=
mailto=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</A>&gt;<B=
R>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 8:33<BR>&gt; PM=
<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;=
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; I was just wondering<BR>&=
gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; how many apologizing does it take to<BR>&gt; &g=
t;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; put this thing behind us? People<BR>&gt; keep<BR>&gt; =
&gt;&gt; forgetting that<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; issue<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &=
gt;&gt; &gt; of UPA is very divisive in Ukraine<BR>&gt; and it<BR>&gt; &gt;=
&gt; runs along<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; linguistic and
 geopolitical<BR>&gt; divisions as<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; well. There<BR>&gt; &gt=
;&gt; &gt;&gt; are<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; millions of Ukrainians wh=
o will<BR>&gt; always regard<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; UPA as<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&=
gt; heroes<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; in spite of everything, just beca=
use<BR>&gt; in<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Western<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Ukraine<B=
R>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; every other family was associated<BR>&gt; wit=
h them<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; in some<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; way or<BR>&gt; &g=
t;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; suffered collective punishment for<BR>&gt; their<BR>&g=
t; &gt;&gt; activities.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Yet on<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &=
gt;&gt; &gt; the state level UPA is still not<BR>&gt; recognized<BR>&gt; &g=
t;&gt; as the<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; WWII<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;=
 participant. I am from central<BR>&gt; Ukraine and<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; have<B=
R>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; nothing to<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;
 do with UPA but still consider them<BR>&gt; heroes<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; just a=
s the<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Red<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Army vet=
s, because millions of my<BR>&gt; compatriots<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; do so on<BR>=
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; both<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; sides of the div=
ide. There are<BR>&gt; different<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; views on this<BR>&gt; &gt=
;&gt; &gt;&gt; in<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; every family, people don't=
 bring it<BR>&gt; up in<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; company.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;=
 It is<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; EXTREMELY divisive and volatile<BR>&g=
t; topic,<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; interference<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; of<BR>&gt=
; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; outsiders in this =
brings it to the<BR>&gt; whole new<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; level. I<BR>&gt; &gt;&g=
t; &gt;&gt; only<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; hope Poland won't<BR>&gt; &=
gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp; be playing the UPA card<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; as Russia has for so many years. It<BR>&gt; will be<BR>&gt; =
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; devastating for<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; both peopl=
es.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; --- On Mo=
n, 8/3/09, Piotr Konieczny<BR>&gt; &lt;piokon@post.pl&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt; &gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&g=
t; &gt; &gt; From: Piotr Konieczny &lt;piokon@post.pl&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek<BR>&gt; ,<BR>&gt; &gt;&g=
t; Piotrus, Tymek<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; and<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &=
gt; others.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; To: "Wikipedia statistics"<=
BR>&gt; &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks=
@wikipedometer.net" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@=
wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</A>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt=
; &gt; &gt; Received: Monday, August 3,<BR>&gt; 2009, 6:42<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;
 AM<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; O. G. wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; But in<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; spite of that, fo=
r millions of<BR>&gt; Ukrainians<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; UPA<BR>&gt;=
 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; always will be heroes, because<BR>&gt; they<BR=
>&gt; &gt;&gt; fought for<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; the<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &g=
t;&gt; &gt; freedom<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; of their country.<B=
R>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; One =
men's<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp; terrorist is another men's hero,=
<BR>&gt; and<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; there<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; is no<BR>&gt;=
 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; denying that.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &=
gt; This is also an attitude of<BR>&gt; many<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Lithuanian<BR=
>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; editors,<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; and<BR>&gt;=
 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; presumably a<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
 &gt; &gt; sentiment shared more widely<BR>&gt; among the<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; =
eastern<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; countries. I<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&g=
t; &gt; &gt; can<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; understand and I canno=
t blame<BR>&gt; those who<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; after<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; =
Soviet<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; repression saw<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; German Nazis as liberators.<BR>&gt; They<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt=
; couldn't<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; know<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; wh=
at was<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; really going on.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt=
; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; Still, one should =
be able to<BR>&gt; admit one<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; made a<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&=
gt; mistake.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Just<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; =
&gt; &gt; as Poles<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; should (and in some =
instances,<BR>&gt; did)<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; apologize for<BR>&gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; the<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; exceptional but<=
BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; real massacres committed by AK<BR>&gt; =
and<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; other Poles<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &=
gt; &gt; (Jedwabne...), so should<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; those=
 who threw their lot in<BR>&gt; with the<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Nazis and<BR>&gt;=
 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; worked<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; with<BR>&gt; &gt;&=
gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; them<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; apologize f=
or all the suffering<BR>&gt; that<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; they<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &g=
t;&gt; caused.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt=
; &gt; &gt; Bottom line is that there is no<BR>&gt; white<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; =
and black,<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; there<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; a=
re<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; always shades<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&=
gt; &gt; &gt; of gray (but shades that can<BR>&gt; be<BR>&gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp; sometimes compared!), and<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &g=
t;&gt; &gt; &gt; we have to<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; admit that =
many heroes were<BR>&gt; also, at the<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; same<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt=
; &gt;&gt; time,<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; criminals.<BR>&gt; &gt=
;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; PS I woul=
dn't be surprised<BR>&gt; if<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Russia<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&=
gt; were<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; clandestinely financing people=
<BR>&gt; in Poland<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; bringing<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; this=
<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; issue<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; o=
ver and over again. Just a<BR>&gt; guess...<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; Good point, again. Let's not<BR>&g=
t; loose the<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; sight<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; of<BR>&gt; &g=
t;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; the bigger<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;
 picture.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt=
; &gt; --<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; Piotr Konieczny<BR>&gt; &gt;&=
gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; "The problem abo=
ut<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; Wikipedia is, that it just<BR>&gt; &gt;&=
gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; works in<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; reality, not=
 in<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; theory."<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; =
&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; ____________=
___________________________________<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; Wik=
ipedia statistics discussion<BR>&gt; list<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &g=
t; <A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedo=
meter.net" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedom=
eter.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</A><BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; <=
A href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=
=3D_blank
 rel=3Dnofollow>http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</A>=
<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;=
 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt=
;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; _____________=
_____________________________________________________<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;=
&gt; &gt; Get the name you've always wanted<BR>&gt; @<A href=3D"http://ymai=
l.com/" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>ymail.com</A><BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; or<BR=
>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; @<A href=3D"http://rocketmail.com/" target=3D_=
blank rel=3Dnofollow>rocketmail.com</A>! Go to <A href=3D"http://ca.promos.=
yahoo.com/jacko/" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://ca.promos.yahoo.com=
/jacko/</A><BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<B=
R>&gt; &gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<BR>&gt; &gt=
;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Wikipedia statistics discussion<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&g=
t;&nbsp;
 list<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; <A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.=
com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow=
 ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</A><BR>=
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; <A href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mai=
lman/listinfo/folks" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://wikipedometer.ne=
t/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</A><BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;=
 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt=
;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; -----Inline Attachment Follows---=
--<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &g=
t;&gt; _______________________________________________<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt=
;&gt; &gt; Wikipedia statistics discussion<BR>&gt; list<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &g=
t;&gt; &gt; <A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks=
@wikipedometer.net" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow
 ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</A><BR>=
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; <A href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mai=
lman/listinfo/folks" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://wikipedometer.ne=
t/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</A><BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;=
 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&=
gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; ____________________________=
______________________________________<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Yahoo! Can=
ada Toolbar:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; Search from anywhere on the we=
b, and<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; bookmark your<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; favourite s=
ites. Download it now<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; <A href=3D"http://ca.toolba=
r.yahoo.com/" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com</A=
>.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; ____________=
___________________________________<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Wikipedia sta=
tistics
 discussion list<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; <A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.=
yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" target=3D_blank rel=3Dno=
follow ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</=
A><BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; <A href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/ma=
ilman/listinfo/folks" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://wikipedometer.n=
et/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</A><BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt=
;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; =
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; -----Inline Attachment Follows-----<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;=
&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; ____________________________________=
___________<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Wikipedia statistics discussion list<=
BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; <A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/comp=
ose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D=
"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</A><BR>&gt; &gt;&g=
t; &gt;&gt; <A
 href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D=
_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fol=
ks</A><BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt=
;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;________=
__________________________________________________________<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;=
 &gt; The new Internet Explorer(R) 8 - Faster,<BR>&gt; safer,<BR>&gt; &gt;&=
gt; easier.&nbsp; Optimized for Yahoo!<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Get it Now for=
 Free! at <A href=3D"http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/" targe=
t=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/</=
A><BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; ____________________=
___________________________<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Wikipedia statistics disc=
ussion list<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; <A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com=
/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow
 ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</A><BR>=
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; <A href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/list=
info/folks" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin=
/mailman/listinfo/folks</A><BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>=
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; _______________________________________________<=
BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Wikipedia statistics discussion list<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;=
 &gt; <A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikip=
edometer.net" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@wikipe=
dometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</A><BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; <A href=3D"h=
ttp://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D_blank rel=
=3Dnofollow>http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</A><BR>=
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; =
_______________________________________________<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Wikipedia =
statistics
 discussion list<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; <A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com=
/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ym=
ailto=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</A><BR>&gt=
; &gt;&gt; <A href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fol=
ks" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman=
/listinfo/folks</A><BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; &nbsp;______________________________________________=
____________________<BR>&gt; &gt; Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gi=
ft of<BR>&gt; Flickr!<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; <A href=3D"http://www.flick=
r.com/gift/" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://www.flickr.com/gift/</A>=
<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; _______________________________________________<=
BR>&gt; &gt; Wikipedia statistics discussion list<BR>&gt; &gt; <A href=3D"h=
ttp://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" targ=
et=3D_blank
 rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedome=
ter.net</A><BR>&gt; &gt; <A href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailma=
n/listinfo/folks" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://wikipedometer.net/c=
gi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</A><BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ____________=
___________________________________<BR>&gt; Wikipedia statistics discussion=
 list<BR>&gt; <A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfol=
ks@wikipedometer.net" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:folk=
s@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</A><BR>&gt; <A href=3D"http://=
wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnof=
ollow>http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</A><BR>&gt;<B=
R><BR><BR></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3Dhm>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;_______________________________________=
___________________________<BR>The new Internet Explorer=C2=AE 8 - Faster, =
safer, easier. &nbsp;Optimized for Yahoo! &nbsp;Get it Now for Free! at <A =
href=3D"http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/" target=3D_blank re=
l=3Dnofollow>http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/</A><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3Dh5><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Wiki=
pedia statistics discussion list<BR><A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.c=
om/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow =
ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</A><BR><=
A href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=
=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/=
folks</A><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV><BR>-----Inline Attac=
hment Follows-----<BR><BR>
<DIV class=3DplainMail>_______________________________________________<BR>W=
ikipedia statistics discussion list<BR><A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yaho=
o.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@wiki=
pedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</A><BR><A href=3D"http://wikipedomet=
er.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D_blank>http://wikipedometer=
.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</A><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></t=
able><br>=0A=0A      
--0-498996673-1249312228=:63577--


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_______________________________________________
Wikipedia statistics discussion list
folks@wikipedometer.net
http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks

--===============2289577746848217824==--


