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Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:07:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
In-Reply-To: <6c9a05ec0908241430g4fedc554ka0ac63954a25e29b@mail.gmail.com>
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	Content preview:  Molobo,
	why are you lying? In the interview presented by
	you, she never said she supported dividing Ukraine. She says that
	instead of trying to appease anti-Polish and anti-Russian Western
	Ukraine, the Poles should try to concentrate their efforts on Eastern
	Ukraine, whose population is not anti-Polish, and which does not support
	the UPA. She also says that it is Russia who has always taken advantage
	on Polish-Ukrainian conflicts. I know not everybody here speaks English,
	so I do not really understand why you have tried to lie here. Do you
	like cheat people like this on daily basis too? Tymek [...] 
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Subject: Re: [WPM] Siemaszo/Kresowiacy/Putin/Russian manipulation
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	Content preview:  Molobo, why are you lying? In the interview presented by
	you, she never said she supported dividing Ukraine. She says that
	instead of trying to appease anti-Polish and anti-Russian Western
	Ukraine, the Poles should try to concentrate their efforts on Eastern
	Ukraine, whose population is not anti-Polish, and which does not support
	the UPA. She also says that it is Russia who has always taken advantage
	on Polish-Ukrainian conflicts. I know not everybody here speaks English,
	so I do not really understand why you have tried to lie here. Do you
	like cheat people like this on daily basis too? Tymek [...] 
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Molobo, why are you lying?=20
=A0
In the interview presented by you, she never said she supported dividing Uk=
raine. She says that instead of trying to appease anti-Polish and anti-Russ=
ian Western Ukraine, the Poles should try to concentrate their efforts on E=
astern Ukraine, whose population is not anti-Polish, and which does not sup=
port the UPA. She also says that it is Russia who has always taken advantag=
e on Polish-Ukrainian conflicts.
=A0
I know not everybody here speaks English, so I do not really understand why=
 you have tried to lie here. Do you like cheat people like this on daily ba=
sis too?
=A0
Tymek

--- On Mon, 8/24/09, Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com> wrote:


From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [WPM] Siemaszo/Kresowiacy/Putin/Russian manipulation
To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 4:30 PM


Yes, based on knowledge available to him this was the best option.
Based on knowledge from today, the best option to survive would be
Finlandization in exchange for giving away most of Kresy to Soviets
and getting in return Silesia and most East Prussia after war with
Germany.=A0 Although I don't believe such option was politically
possible.

But getting back to track I just read an interesting interview with
Siemaszko daughter-as expected she supports dividing Ukraine,
supporting pro-Putin East Ukraine, and calls on Polish state to oppose
Ukrainian national awarness.
Is there article on Ewa Siemaszko were those interesting views can be added=
 ?
http://www.naszdziennik.pl/index.php?typ=3Dmy&dat=3D20081122&id=3Dmy21.txt


2009/8/22 piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
>
> What choice did we have back in 1939? Do you think Jozef Beck did the rig=
ht thing allying Poland with Britain and France?
>
> Tymek
>
> --- On Sat, 8/22/09, Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [WPM] Siemaszo/Kresowiacy/Putin/Russian manipulation
> To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> Date: Saturday, August 22, 2009, 8:37 AM
>
> The German nationalist identity is based on the idea of Drang nach Osten =
and inferiority of Slavs and Balts. Do not delude yourself-any alliance wit=
h German nationalists means walking willingly into gas furnace or into catt=
le wagons.
>
> 2009/8/22 piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
>>
>> Digwuren, and this is what I mean. Poland should have ceded Gdansk to Ge=
rmany, as this city was no more needed by the Poles. We had Gdynia. Of cour=
se the war would have began sooner or later, but some things would have bee=
n different. Surely, these are speculations. But the fact is that Gdansk wa=
s of no use to Poland in 1939.
>>
>> Now more and more Polish historians are speculating "what if .... Poland=
 had allied with Hitler back then". Until March 1939, both countries actual=
ly were quite close, with frequent visits of top German diplomats in Warsaw=
. Then the British began muddying the waters with guarantees they never wan=
ted to keep, and Warsaw changed the course. Again, these are speculations, =
Hitler never kept his promises, but so did Britain and France, not to menti=
on Stalin of course.
>>
>> After all, Poland, Estonia and Latvia lost too much in the war, even tho=
ugh Poland was nominally on the victorious side.
>>
>> Tymek
>>
>> --- On Sat, 8/22/09, Digwuren <digwuren@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> From: Digwuren <digwuren@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [WPM] Siemaszo/Kresowiacy/Putin/Russian manipulation
>> To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
>> Date: Saturday, August 22, 2009, 2:22 AM
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 04:34, piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com> wrot=
e:
>>>
>>> It is blind stubborness of Polish elite in the 1930s that was one of th=
e reasons of WW2, and we have to admit it. After construction of Gdynia, Po=
land did not need Gdansk any more. It was all about "honor" as Jozef Beck s=
aid. We should have allowed Gdansk to become part of Germany, as the city's=
 population wished, and then wait how the events would turn out.
>>
>> It would not have satisfied Hitler nor discouraged Stalin. =A0Very unlik=
ely to have averted WWII; at most, it could have affected some details.
>> --
>> Andres Soolo
>>
>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
>> folks@wikipedometer.net
>> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
>> folks@wikipedometer.net
>> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>>
>
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> folks@wikipedometer.net
> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> folks@wikipedometer.net
> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>

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<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><DIV>Molobo, why are you lying? </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>In the interview presented by you, she never said she supported dividi=
ng Ukraine. She says that instead of trying to appease anti-Polish and anti=
-Russian Western Ukraine, the Poles should try to concentrate their efforts=
 on Eastern Ukraine, whose population is not anti-Polish, and which does no=
t support the UPA. She also says that it is Russia who has always taken adv=
antage on Polish-Ukrainian conflicts.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I know not everybody here speaks English, so I do not really understan=
d why you have tried to lie here. Do you like cheat people like this on dai=
ly basis too?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Tymek<BR><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 8/24/09, Molobo Molobo <I>&lt;molobus@gmai=
l.com&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid"><BR>From: Molobo Molobo &lt;molobus@gmail.com&gt;<BR>=
Subject: Re: [WPM] Siemaszo/Kresowiacy/Putin/Russian manipulation<BR>To: "W=
ikipedia statistics" &lt;folks@wikipedometer.net&gt;<BR>Date: Monday, Augus=
t 24, 2009, 4:30 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV class=3DplainMail>Yes, based on knowledge available to him this was th=
e best option.<BR>Based on knowledge from today, the best option to survive=
 would be<BR>Finlandization in exchange for giving away most of Kresy to So=
viets<BR>and getting in return Silesia and most East Prussia after war with=
<BR>Germany.&nbsp; Although I don't believe such option was politically<BR>=
possible.<BR><BR>But getting back to track I just read an interesting inter=
view with<BR>Siemaszko daughter-as expected she supports dividing Ukraine,<=
BR>supporting pro-Putin East Ukraine, and calls on Polish state to oppose<B=
R>Ukrainian national awarness.<BR>Is there article on Ewa Siemaszko were th=
ose interesting views can be added ?<BR><A href=3D"http://www.naszdziennik.=
pl/index.php?typ=3Dmy&amp;dat=3D20081122&amp;id=3Dmy21.txt" target=3D_blank=
>http://www.naszdziennik.pl/index.php?typ=3Dmy&amp;dat=3D20081122&amp;id=3D=
my21.txt</A><BR><BR><BR>2009/8/22 piotr micula &lt;<A
 href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dbasiaipiotr@yahoo.c=
om" ymailto=3D"mailto:basiaipiotr@yahoo.com">basiaipiotr@yahoo.com</A>&gt;<=
BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; What choice did we have back in 1939? Do you think Jozef Be=
ck did the right thing allying Poland with Britain and France?<BR>&gt;<BR>&=
gt; Tymek<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --- On Sat, 8/22/09, Molobo Molobo &lt;<A href=3D=
"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dmolobus@gmail.com" ymailto=
=3D"mailto:molobus@gmail.com">molobus@gmail.com</A>&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&=
gt; From: Molobo Molobo &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/co=
mpose?to=3Dmolobus@gmail.com" ymailto=3D"mailto:molobus@gmail.com">molobus@=
gmail.com</A>&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: [WPM] Siemaszo/Kresowiacy/Putin/Russ=
ian manipulation<BR>&gt; To: "Wikipedia statistics" &lt;<A href=3D"http://u=
s.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" ymailto=3D"=
mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</A>&gt;<BR>&gt; Dat=
e: Saturday,
 August 22, 2009, 8:37 AM<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The German nationalist identity i=
s based on the idea of Drang nach Osten and inferiority of Slavs and Balts.=
 Do not delude yourself-any alliance with German nationalists means walking=
 willingly into gas furnace or into cattle wagons.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 2009/8/2=
2 piotr micula &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=
=3Dbasiaipiotr@yahoo.com" ymailto=3D"mailto:basiaipiotr@yahoo.com">basiaipi=
otr@yahoo.com</A>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Digwuren, and this is what I =
mean. Poland should have ceded Gdansk to Germany, as this city was no more =
needed by the Poles. We had Gdynia. Of course the war would have began soon=
er or later, but some things would have been different. Surely, these are s=
peculations. But the fact is that Gdansk was of no use to Poland in 1939.<B=
R>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Now more and more Polish historians are speculating =
"what if .... Poland had allied with Hitler back then". Until March 1939,
 both countries actually were quite close, with frequent visits of top Germ=
an diplomats in Warsaw. Then the British began muddying the waters with gua=
rantees they never wanted to keep, and Warsaw changed the course. Again, th=
ese are speculations, Hitler never kept his promises, but so did Britain an=
d France, not to mention Stalin of course.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; After al=
l, Poland, Estonia and Latvia lost too much in the war, even though Poland =
was nominally on the victorious side.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Tymek<BR>&gt;=
&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; --- On Sat, 8/22/09, Digwuren &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc3=
28.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddigwuren@gmail.com" ymailto=3D"mailto:dig=
wuren@gmail.com">digwuren@gmail.com</A>&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; =
From: Digwuren &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=
=3Ddigwuren@gmail.com" ymailto=3D"mailto:digwuren@gmail.com">digwuren@gmail=
.com</A>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [WPM] Siemaszo/Kresowiacy/Putin/Russi=
an
 manipulation<BR>&gt;&gt; To: "Wikipedia statistics" &lt;<A href=3D"http://=
us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" ymailto=3D=
"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</A>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt=
; Date: Saturday, August 22, 2009, 2:22 AM<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; On Sat, =
Aug 22, 2009 at 04:34, piotr micula &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yah=
oo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dbasiaipiotr@yahoo.com" ymailto=3D"mailto:basiaipiotr=
@yahoo.com">basiaipiotr@yahoo.com</A>&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt=
;&gt; It is blind stubborness of Polish elite in the 1930s that was one of =
the reasons of WW2, and we have to admit it. After construction of Gdynia, =
Poland did not need Gdansk any more. It was all about "honor" as Jozef Beck=
 said. We should have allowed Gdansk to become part of Germany, as the city=
's population wished, and then wait how the events would turn out.<BR>&gt;&=
gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; It would not have satisfied Hitler nor discouraged Stalin.
 &nbsp;Very unlikely to have averted WWII; at most, it could have affected =
some details.<BR>&gt;&gt; --<BR>&gt;&gt; Andres Soolo<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&g=
t; -----Inline Attachment Follows-----<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; ____________=
___________________________________<BR>&gt;&gt; Wikipedia statistics discus=
sion list<BR>&gt;&gt; <A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?=
to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">fo=
lks@wikipedometer.net</A><BR>&gt;&gt; <A href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/c=
gi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D_blank>http://wikipedometer.net/cgi=
-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</A><BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; _______=
________________________________________<BR>&gt;&gt; Wikipedia statistics d=
iscussion list<BR>&gt;&gt; <A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/com=
pose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.ne=
t">folks@wikipedometer.net</A><BR>&gt;&gt; <A
 href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D=
_blank>http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</A><BR>&gt;&=
gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; -----Inline Attachment Follows-----<BR>&gt;<BR>=
&gt; _______________________________________________<BR>&gt; Wikipedia stat=
istics discussion list<BR>&gt; <A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc=
/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedomete=
r.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</A><BR>&gt; <A href=3D"http://wikipedometer.=
net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D_blank>http://wikipedometer.ne=
t/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</A><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ______________=
_________________________________<BR>&gt; Wikipedia statistics discussion l=
ist<BR>&gt; <A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks=
@wikipedometer.net" ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipe=
dometer.net</A><BR>&gt; <A
 href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D=
_blank>http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</A><BR>&gt;<=
BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Wikipedia statist=
ics discussion list<BR><A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose=
?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">f=
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ailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D_blank>http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mai=
lman/listinfo/folks</A><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table><br>=0A=0A =
     
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