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Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 09:07:55 -0500
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From: radek szulga <rsszulga@gmail.com>
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	Content preview:  The thing is, neither Operation Wisla nor the 1930
	"Pacification" have anything to do with the AK. So with regard to AK
	please note that a lot of the alleged crimes: *happened according to
	Communist propaganda or are sourced to Soviet partisans operating in
	Ukraine and Belarus. It is also important to remember that communist
	propaganda tried to smear BOTH the AK and the UPA. Oftentimes crimes
	which were perpetrated by common bandits, or even the Communistis
	themselves were attributed to the AK or UPA. The difference is that the
	massacres that happened in Volhynia and E. Galicia have been verified
	independently where as a lot of the "AK did this..." stuff can be
	traced
	ONLY to communist sources. *some of these crimes were carried out by
	"rogue" AK units or by bandit organizations which called themselves the
	AK but were not in fact associated with the organization. The name of
	the most notorious commander here - a guy who got kicked out of the AK
	and court martialed in absentia for being too trigger happy - escapes
	me
	at the moment (I wanna say Kmicic, but there were, unsuprisingly,
	several partisan commanders who called themselves Kmicic) - but his
	case
	was typical. The important point is that the atrocities that happened, 
	were 1) on a much smaller scale then the Volhynia massacres, 2) were in
	fact carried out by non-AK soldiers and in direct contravention of AK's
	command orders - unlike UPA. *Out of those 20,000 mentioned in the
	Cienciala article a lot of them were members of UPA itself who died
	when the Poles of Volhynia decided to defend themselves. [...] 
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Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and others.
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	Content preview:  The thing is, neither Operation Wisla nor the 1930
	"Pacification" have anything to do with the AK. So with regard to AK
	please note that a lot of the alleged crimes: *happened according to
	Communist propaganda or are sourced to Soviet partisans operating in
	Ukraine and Belarus. It is also important to remember that communist
	propaganda tried to smear BOTH the AK and the UPA. Oftentimes crimes
	which were perpetrated by common bandits, or even the Communistis
	themselves were attributed to the AK or UPA. The difference is that the
	massacres that happened in Volhynia and E. Galicia have been verified
	independently where as a lot of the "AK did this..." stuff can be traced
	ONLY to communist sources. *some of these crimes were carried out by
	"rogue" AK units or by bandit organizations which called themselves the
	AK but were not in fact associated with the organization. The name of
	the most notorious commander here - a guy who got kicked out of the AK
	and court martialed in absentia for being too trigger happy - escapes me
	at the moment (I wanna say Kmicic, but there were, unsuprisingly,
	several partisan commanders who called themselves Kmicic) - but his case
	was typical. The important point is that the atrocities that happened,
	were 1) on a much smaller scale then the Volhynia massacres, 2) were in
	fact carried out by non-AK soldiers and in direct contravention of AK's
	command orders - unlike UPA. *Out of those 20,000 mentioned in the
	Cienciala article a lot of them were members of UPA itself who died when
	the Poles of Volhynia decided to defend themselves. [...] 
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The thing is, neither Operation Wisla nor the 1930 "Pacification" have
anything to do with the AK.
So with regard to AK please note that a lot of the alleged crimes:
*happened according to Communist propaganda or are sourced to Soviet
partisans operating in Ukraine and Belarus. It is also important to remembe=
r
that communist propaganda tried to smear BOTH the AK and the UPA. Oftentime=
s
crimes which were perpetrated by common bandits, or even the Communistis
themselves were attributed to the AK or UPA. The difference is that the
massacres that happened in Volhynia and E. Galicia have been verified
independently where as a lot of the "AK did this..." stuff can be traced
ONLY to communist sources.
*some of these crimes were carried out by "rogue" AK units or by bandit
organizations which called themselves the AK but were not in fact associate=
d
with the organization. The name of the most notorious commander here - a gu=
y
who got kicked out of the AK and court martialed in absentia for being too
trigger happy - escapes me at the moment (I wanna say Kmicic, but there
were, unsuprisingly, several partisan commanders who called themselves
Kmicic) - but his case was typical. The important point is that the
atrocities that happened, were 1) on a much smaller scale then the Volhynia
massacres, 2) were in fact carried out by non-AK soldiers and in direct
contravention of AK's command orders - unlike UPA.
*Out of those 20,000 mentioned in the Cienciala article a lot of them were
members of UPA itself who died when the Poles of Volhynia decided to defend
themselves.

This kind of moral equivocation is very dangerous. For example, some
American forces/soldiers in World War Two executed their German POWs and
committed a few atrocities,  but that does not justify comparing the
American Army in WWII to say, the SS, or the Werhmacht for that matter -
because these kinds of actions were the exception not the rule. Same with
AK. If you have an organization of 800,000 people, just from point of view
of probability and statistics at least some small portion of this 800,000 i=
s
going to commit criminal acts. But that's totally different than an entire
organization - UPA-Bandera - committing criminal acts.

Another thing that should give one pause is the fact that - as you say - th=
e
issue of UPA is very divisive in Ukraine (since they also targeted
Ukrainians whom they judged not to be extreme enough). But AK in Poland,
some left over commies aside, is not controversial or divisive and is widel=
y
respected. I think maybe the situation with the NSZ in Poland would be
similar (freedom fighters, but also often chauvinists and occasionally
murderers).

Basically, if you want to talk about Operation Wisla and the interwar
repressions against Ukrainians by the Polish government you're on much
stronger ground. But, again, comparing AK to UPA is inappropriate.

Radek

2009/8/3 O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>

>
> True. Except operation Wisla was not part of the population exchange and
> Ukrainians were simply evicted, dispersed and resettled in the newly
> acquired territories in the west of the country. All that was accompanied=
 by
> killings of those who resisted or was suspected of subversive activities.
>
> --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and others.
> > To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> > Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:57 AM
>  > Well, since the Ukrainian population
> > was reckognised as part of Soviet
> > Union, and Soviet Union did sign an agreement with
> > Communists in
> > Poland about the population change, this would make it a
> > population
> > exchange between two states. The manner or methods used
> > wouldn't
> > really change that.
> >
> > 2009/8/3 O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>:
> > >
> > > There is no comparison between population exchanges
> > and operation Wisla. Population exchanges were in many cases
> > voluntary, especially with respect to Poles getting away
> > from the Stalin's paradise. During operation Wisla they
> > evicted people from their homes, killing many in the
> > process. No comparison.
> > >
> > > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
> > >> Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek
> > and others.
> > >> To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> > >> Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:25 AM
> > >> " Is resettlement the same as
> > >> ethnical cleansing?"
> > >> Some scholars do indeed term it as such. Although
> > just
> > >> like
> > >> resettlement of Poles from Soviet Union under
> > international
> > >> agreements
> > >> I would not term it myself it in such way.
> > >>
> > >> 2009/8/3 piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>:
> > >> > Is resettlement the same as ethnical
> > cleansing?
> > >> Operation Wisla was shameful
> > >> > and Polish govt rightfully apologized for
> > it.
> > >> Nevertheless, it was not a
> > >> > mass murder of Ukrainians and you know it.
> > >> >
> > >> > Tymek
> > >> >
> > >> > --- On Sun, 8/2/09, O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > From: O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>
> > >> > Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus,
> > Tymek and
> > >> others.
> > >> > To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> > >> > Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 10:57 PM
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Gee, what a question! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wis=
=C5=82a
> > >> >
> > >> > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> From: piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
> > >> >> Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek ,
> > Piotrus, Tymek
> > >> and others.
> > >> >> To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> > >> >> Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 10:36
> > AM
> > >> >> Hillock, let us be realistic.
> > >> >> When did Polish government ethnically
> > cleanse the
> > >> >> Ukrainians?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Tymek
> > >> >>
> > >> >> --- On Sun, 8/2/09, O. G.
> > >> >> <hillock@yahoo.ca>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> From: O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>
> > >> >> Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek ,
> > Piotrus, Tymek
> > >> and
> > >> >> others.
> > >> >> To: "Wikipedia statistics"
> > >> >> <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> > >> >> Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 10:20 PM
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I already wrote, UPA is not recognized by
> > the
> > >> Ukrainian
> > >> >> state. It has nothing to apologize for.
> > Unlike the
> > >> POLISH
> > >> >> STATE that subjugated, assimilated,
> > persecuted
> > >> and
> > >> >> ethnically clensed Ukrainians.
> > Apologizing for the
> > >> deeds of
> > >> >> UPA by the state officials would be
> > tantamount to
> > >> state
> > >> >> recognizing it and as such it is a very
> > divisive
> > >> issue, all
> > >> >> politicians shy from it. And if it
> > happened, I
> > >> should hope
> > >> >> Poles will appologize for the atrocities
> > commited
> > >> by the AK.
> > >> >> For the life of me I cannot see what good
> > it will
> > >> bring?!!
> > >> >> All this moaning and going through
> > decomposed
> > >> bodies and
> > >> >> mutual accusations does nothing, but
> > devides.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> --- On Mon, 8/3/09, piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
> > >> >> wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > From: piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
> > >> >> > Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek ,
> > Piotrus,
> > >> Tymek and
> > >> >> others.
> > >> >> > To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> > >> >> > Received: Monday, August 3, 2009,
> > 9:42 AM
> > >> >> > For starters, there has been no
> > >> >> > single apology from the Ukrainian
> > side. What
> > >> is more
> > >> >> > important, 80% bones of Poles
> > murdered in
> > >> >> Volhynia have
> > >> >> > not been properly buried, and lie
> > there in
> > >> Volhynian
> > >> >> and
> > >> >> > Podolian fields, among villages
> > burned to the
> > >> ground.
> > >> >> > Don't you think that Ukrainian
> > authorities
> > >> should
> > >> >> at
> > >> >> > least give permission for
> > exhumations of
> > >> these
> > >> >> remains?
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > It is not about playing UPA card. It
> > is
> > >> about
> > >> >> > remembering history and those who
> > were
> > >> murdered for
> > >> >> nothing.
> > >> >> > Should we all sweep this
> > >> >>  topic under the carpet and forget
> > >> >> > it forever? If so, let us erase all
> > history
> > >> articles
> > >> >> on
> > >> >> > Wikipedia, and demand closing of all
> > museums,
> > >> with
> > >> >> Museum of
> > >> >> > Holocaust as first.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Tymek
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > --- On Sun, 8/2/09, O. G.
> > >> >> > <hillock@yahoo.ca>
> > >> >> wrote:
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > From: O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>
> > >> >> > Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek ,
> > Piotrus,
> > >> Tymek and
> > >> >> > others.
> > >> >> > To: "Wikipedia statistics"
> > >> >> > <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> > >> >> > Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 8:33
> > PM
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > I was just wondering
> > >> >>  how many apologizing does it take to
> > >> >> > put this thing behind us? People
> > keep
> > >> forgetting that
> > >> >> issue
> > >> >> > of UPA is very divisive in Ukraine
> > and it
> > >> runs along
> > >> >> > linguistic and geopolitical
> > divisions as
> > >> well. There
> > >> >> are
> > >> >> > millions of Ukrainians who will
> > always regard
> > >> UPA as
> > >> >> heroes
> > >> >> > in spite of everything, just because
> > in
> > >> Western
> > >> >> Ukraine
> > >> >> > every other family was associated
> > with them
> > >> in some
> > >> >> way or
> > >> >> > suffered collective punishment for
> > their
> > >> activities.
> > >> >> Yet on
> > >> >> > the state level UPA is still not
> > recognized
> > >> as the
> > >> >> WWII
> > >> >> > participant. I am from central
> > Ukraine and
> > >> have
> > >> >> nothing to
> > >> >> > do with UPA but still consider them
> > heroes
> > >> just as the
> > >> >> Red
> > >> >> > Army vets, because millions of my
> > compatriots
> > >> do so on
> > >> >> both
> > >> >> > sides of the divide. There are
> > different
> > >> views on this
> > >> >> in
> > >> >> > every family, people don't bring it
> > up in
> > >> company.
> > >> >> It is
> > >> >> > EXTREMELY divisive and volatile
> > topic,
> > >> interference
> > >> >> of
> > >> >> >
> > >> >>  outsiders in this brings it to the
> > whole new
> > >> level. I
> > >> >> only
> > >> >> > hope Poland won't
> > >> >> >  be playing the UPA card
> > >> >> > as Russia has for so many years. It
> > will be
> > >> >> devastating for
> > >> >> > both peoples.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Piotr Konieczny
> > <piokon@post.pl>
> > >> >> > wrote:
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > > From: Piotr Konieczny <piokon@post.pl>
> > >> >> > > Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek
> > ,
> > >> Piotrus, Tymek
> > >> >> and
> > >> >> > others.
> > >> >> > > To: "Wikipedia statistics"
> > <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> > >> >> > > Received: Monday, August 3,
> > 2009, 6:42
> > >> AM
> > >> >> > > O. G. wrote:
> > >> >> > > > But in
> > >> >>  spite of that, for millions of
> > Ukrainians
> > >> >> > UPA
> > >> >> > > always will be heroes, because
> > they
> > >> fought for
> > >> >> the
> > >> >> > freedom
> > >> >> > > of their country.
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > One men's
> > >> >> >  terrorist is another men's hero,
> > and
> > >> there
> > >> >> is no
> > >> >> > > denying that.
> > >> >> > > This is also an attitude of
> > many
> > >> Lithuanian
> > >> >> editors,
> > >> >> > and
> > >> >> > > presumably a
> > >> >> > > sentiment shared more widely
> > among the
> > >> eastern
> > >> >> > countries. I
> > >> >> > > can
> > >> >> > > understand and I cannot blame
> > those who
> > >> after
> > >> >> Soviet
> > >> >> > > repression saw
> > >> >> > > German Nazis as liberators.
> > They
> > >> couldn't
> > >> >> know
> > >> >> > what was
> > >> >> > > really going on.
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > Still, one should be able to
> > admit one
> > >> made a
> > >> >> mistake.
> > >> >> > Just
> > >> >> > > as Poles
> > >> >> > > should (and in some instances,
> > did)
> > >> apologize for
> > >> >> the
> > >> >> > > exceptional but
> > >> >> > > real massacres committed by AK
> > and
> > >> >>  other Poles
> > >> >> > > (Jedwabne...), so should
> > >> >> > > those who threw their lot in
> > with the
> > >> Nazis and
> > >> >> worked
> > >> >> > with
> > >> >> > > them
> > >> >> > > apologize for all the suffering
> > that
> > >> they
> > >> >> caused.
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > Bottom line is that there is no
> > white
> > >> and black,
> > >> >> there
> > >> >> > are
> > >> >> > > always shades
> > >> >> > > of gray (but shades that can
> > be
> > >> >> >  sometimes compared!), and
> > >> >> > > we have to
> > >> >> > > admit that many heroes were
> > also, at the
> > >> same
> > >> >> time,
> > >> >> > > criminals.
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > > PS I wouldn't be surprised
> > if
> > >> Russia
> > >> >> were
> > >> >> > > clandestinely financing people
> > in Poland
> > >> bringing
> > >> >> this
> > >> >> > issue
> > >> >> > > over and over again. Just a
> > guess...
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > Good point, again. Let's not
> > loose the
> > >> sight
> > >> >> of
> > >> >> > the bigger
> > >> >> > > picture.
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > --
> > >> >> > > Piotr Konieczny
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > "The problem about
> > >> >>  Wikipedia is, that it just
> > >> >> > works in
> > >> >> > > reality, not in
> > >> >> > > theory."
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> >> > > Wikipedia statistics discussion
> > list
> > >> >> > > folks@wikipedometer.net
> > >> >> > > http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >>
> > >>
> > __________________________________________________________________
> > >> >> > Get the name you've always wanted
> > @ymail.com
> > >> or
> > >> >> > @rocketmail.com! Go to http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/jacko/
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> >> > Wikipedia statistics discussion
> > >> >>  list
> > >> >> > folks@wikipedometer.net
> > >> >> > http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> >> > Wikipedia statistics discussion
> > list
> > >> >> > folks@wikipedometer.net
> > >> >> > http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
> > >> >> >
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >>
> > __________________________________________________________________
> > >> >> Yahoo! Canada Toolbar:
> > >> >>  Search from anywhere on the web, and
> > >> bookmark your
> > >> >> favourite sites. Download it now
> > >> >> http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > >> >> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> > >> >> folks@wikipedometer.net
> > >> >> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > >> >> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> > >> >> folks@wikipedometer.net
> > >> >> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> >    __________________________________________________________________
> > >> > The new Internet Explorer(R) 8 - Faster,
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> > >> > Wikipedia statistics discussion list
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--0016369cfeb4eccf1504703d4b47
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div>The thing is, neither Operation Wisla nor the 1930 &quot;Pacification&=
quot; have anything to do with the AK.</div>
<div>So with regard to AK please note that a lot of the alleged crimes:</di=
v>
<div>*happened according to Communist propaganda or are sourced to Soviet p=
artisans operating in Ukraine and Belarus. It is also important to remember=
 that communist propaganda tried to smear BOTH the AK and the UPA. Oftentim=
es crimes which were perpetrated by common bandits, or even the Communistis=
 themselves were attributed to the AK or UPA. The difference is that the ma=
ssacres that happened in Volhynia and E. Galicia have been verified indepen=
dently where as a lot of the &quot;AK did this...&quot; stuff can be traced=
 ONLY to communist sources.</div>

<div>*some of these crimes were carried out by &quot;rogue&quot; AK units o=
r by bandit organizations which called themselves the AK but were not in fa=
ct associated with the organization. The name of the most notorious command=
er here - a guy who got kicked out of the AK and court martialed in absenti=
a for being too trigger happy - escapes me at the moment (I wanna say Kmici=
c, but there were, unsuprisingly, several partisan commanders who called th=
emselves Kmicic) - but his case was typical. The important point is that th=
e atrocities that happened, were 1) on a much smaller scale then the Volhyn=
ia massacres, 2) were in fact carried out by non-AK soldiers and in direct =
contravention of AK&#39;s command orders - unlike UPA.</div>

<div>*Out of those 20,000 mentioned in the Cienciala article a lot of them =
were members of UPA itself who died when the Poles of Volhynia decided to d=
efend themselves.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>This kind of moral equivocation is very dangerous. For example, some A=
merican forces/soldiers in World War Two executed their German POWs and com=
mitted a few atrocities,=C2=A0 but that does not justify comparing the Amer=
ican Army in WWII to say, the SS, or the Werhmacht for that matter - becaus=
e these kinds of actions were the exception not the rule. Same with AK. If =
you have an organization of 800,000 people, just from point of view of prob=
ability and statistics at least some small portion of this 800,000 is going=
 to commit criminal acts. But that&#39;s totally different than an entire o=
rganization - UPA-Bandera - committing criminal acts.</div>

<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>Another thing that should give one pause is the fact that - as you=C2=
=A0say - the issue of UPA is very divisive in Ukraine (since they also targ=
eted Ukrainians whom they judged not to be extreme enough). But AK in Polan=
d, some left over commies aside, is not controversial or divisive and is wi=
dely respected. I think maybe the situation with the NSZ in Poland would be=
 similar (freedom fighters, but also often chauvinists and occasionally mur=
derers).</div>

<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>Basically, if you want to talk about Operation Wisla and the interwar =
repressions against Ukrainians by the Polish government you&#39;re on much =
stronger ground. But, again, comparing AK to UPA is inappropriate.</div>

<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>Radek<br><br></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">2009/8/3 O. G. <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:hillock@yahoo.ca">hillock@yahoo.ca</a>&gt;</span><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"><br>True. Except operation Wisla=
 was not part of the population exchange and Ukrainians were simply evicted=
, dispersed and resettled in the newly acquired territories in the west of =
the country. All that was accompanied by killings of those who resisted or =
was suspected of subversive activities.<br>

<div class=3D"im"><br>--- On Mon, 8/3/09, Molobo Molobo &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:molobus@gmail.com">molobus@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br>&gt; From: Mo=
lobo Molobo &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:molobus@gmail.com">molobus@gmail.com</a>&=
gt;<br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and others.<br>&gt; T=
o: &quot;Wikipedia statistics&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedomet=
er.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a>&gt;<br></div>&gt; Received: Monday, Aug=
ust 3, 2009, 11:57 AM<br>

<div>
<div></div>
<div class=3D"h5">&gt; Well, since the Ukrainian population<br>&gt; was rec=
kognised as part of Soviet<br>&gt; Union, and Soviet Union did sign an agre=
ement with<br>&gt; Communists in<br>&gt; Poland about the population change=
, this would make it a<br>
&gt; population<br>&gt; exchange between two states. The manner or methods =
used<br>&gt; wouldn&#39;t<br>&gt; really change that.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; 2009/=
8/3 O. G. &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hillock@yahoo.ca">hillock@yahoo.ca</a>&gt;:=
<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; There is no comparison between population exchanges<=
br>&gt; and operation Wisla. Population exchanges were in many cases<br>&gt=
; voluntary, especially with respect to Poles getting away<br>&gt; from the=
 Stalin&#39;s paradise. During operation Wisla they<br>
&gt; evicted people from their homes, killing many in the<br>&gt; process. =
No comparison.<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Molobo Molobo =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:molobus@gmail.com">molobus@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>&gt; =
wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; From: Molobo Molobo &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:molobu=
s@gmail.com">molobus@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [WPM] =
HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek<br>&gt; and others.<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; To: &quo=
t;Wikipedia statistics&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net"=
>folks@wikipedometer.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:25 AM<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &=
quot; Is resettlement the same as<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; ethnical cleansing?&quot=
;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; Some scholars do indeed term it as such. Although<br>
&gt; just<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; like<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; resettlement of Poles from=
 Soviet Union under<br>&gt; international<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; agreements<br>&g=
t; &gt;&gt; I would not term it myself it in such way.<br>&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; 2009/8/3 piotr micula &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:basiaipiotr@yahoo=
.com">basiaipiotr@yahoo.com</a>&gt;:<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Is resettlement =
the same as ethnical<br>&gt; cleansing?<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; Operation Wisla wa=
s shameful<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; and Polish govt rightfully apologized for<br>&gt; it.<br=
>&gt; &gt;&gt; Nevertheless, it was not a<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; mass murder=
 of Ukrainians and you know it.<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;=
 Tymek<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; --- On Sun, 8/2/09, O. G. &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:hillock@yahoo.ca">hillock@yahoo.ca</a>&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; w=
rote:<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; From: O. G. &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:hillock@yahoo.ca">hillock@yahoo.ca</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus,<br>&gt; Tymek=
 and<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; others.<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; To: &quot;Wikipedia sta=
tistics&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedo=
meter.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 10:57 PM<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Gee, what a question! <a h=
ref=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wis" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wis</a>=C5=82a<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; --- On Mon, 8/3/09, piotr micula &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:basiaipiotr@yahoo.com">basiaipiotr@yahoo.com</a>&gt;<b=
r>&gt; &gt;&gt; wrote:<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; From=
: piotr micula &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:basiaipiotr@yahoo.com">basiaipiotr@yah=
oo.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek ,<br>&gt; Piotrus, T=
ymek<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; and others.<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; To: &quot;Wikip=
edia statistics&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@=
wikipedometer.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 10:36<br>&gt; AM<b=
r>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Hillock, let us be realistic.<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt=
;&gt; When did Polish government ethnically<br>&gt; cleanse the<br>&gt; &gt=
;&gt; &gt;&gt; Ukrainians?<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Tymek<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt=
;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; --- On Sun, 8/2/09, O. G.<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hillock@yahoo.ca">hillock@yahoo.ca</a>&gt;<b=
r>
&gt; &gt;&gt; wrote:<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br=
>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; From: O. G. &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hillock@yahoo.ca"=
>hillock@yahoo.ca</a>&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP=
!! Radek ,<br>
&gt; Piotrus, Tymek<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; and<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; others.<=
br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; To: &quot;Wikipedia statistics&quot;<br>&gt; &gt;=
&gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedo=
meter.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 10:20 PM<br>&gt; &gt;&=
gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &g=
t;&gt; &gt;&gt; I already wrote, UPA is not recognized by<br>&gt; the<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Ukrainian<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; state. It has nothing to =
apologize for.<br>&gt; Unlike the<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; POLISH<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt; STATE that subjugated, assimilated,<br>&gt; persecuted<br>&gt; &gt=
;&gt; and<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; ethnically clensed Ukrainians.<br>&gt; Apologizing f=
or the<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; deeds of<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; UPA by the state=
 officials would be<br>&gt; tantamount to<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; state<br>&gt; &g=
t;&gt; &gt;&gt; recognizing it and as such it is a very<br>
&gt; divisive<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; issue, all<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; politic=
ians shy from it. And if it<br>&gt; happened, I<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; should hop=
e<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Poles will appologize for the atrocities<br>
&gt; commited<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; by the AK.<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; For the=
 life of me I cannot see what good<br>&gt; it will<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; bring?!=
!<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; All this moaning and going through<br>&gt; deco=
mposed<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; bodies and<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; mutual accusations does =
nothing, but<br>&gt; devides.<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &g=
t;&gt; --- On Mon, 8/3/09, piotr micula &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:basiaipiotr@y=
ahoo.com">basiaipiotr@yahoo.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; wrote:<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &g=
t;&gt; &gt; From: piotr micula &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:basiaipiotr@yahoo.com"=
>basiaipiotr@yahoo.com</a>&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: =
[WPM] HELP!! Radek ,<br>
&gt; Piotrus,<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; Tymek and<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; others.<=
br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; To: &quot;Wikipedia statistics&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Received: Monday, August 3, 2009,<br>&gt; 9:42 =
AM<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; For starters, there has been no<br>&gt; &=
gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; single apology from the Ukrainian<br>&gt; side. What<=
br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; is more<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; important, 80% bones o=
f Poles<br>&gt; murdered in<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Volhynia have<br>&gt;=
 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; not been properly buried, and lie<br>&gt; there in<=
br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Volhynian<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; and<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;=
&gt; &gt; Podolian fields, among villages<br>&gt; burned to the<br>&gt; &gt=
;&gt; ground.<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Don&#39;t you think that Ukrai=
nian<br>
&gt; authorities<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; should<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; at<br>&g=
t; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; least give permission for<br>&gt; exhumations of<=
br>&gt; &gt;&gt; these<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; remains?<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; It is not about playing UPA card. It<br>&gt; is=
<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; about<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; remembering history =
and those who<br>&gt; were<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; murdered for<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &=
gt;&gt; nothing.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Should we all sweep this<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&=
gt;=C2=A0 topic under the carpet and forget<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; =
it forever? If so, let us erase all<br>&gt; history<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; articl=
es<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; on<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Wikipedia, and dem=
and closing of all<br>&gt; museums,<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; with<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt; Museum of<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Holocaust as first.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Tymek<br>&gt; &g=
t;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; --- On Sun, 8/2/09, O. =
G.<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hillock@yahoo.ca">h=
illock@yahoo.ca</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; wrote:<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&g=
t; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; From: O. G. &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:hillock@yahoo.ca">hillock@yahoo.ca</a>&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;=
 &gt; Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek ,<br>
&gt; Piotrus,<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; Tymek and<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; oth=
ers.<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; To: &quot;Wikipedia statistics&quot;<br=
>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net"=
>folks@wikipedometer.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 8:33<br>&gt; PM<b=
r>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&g=
t; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; I was just wondering<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 how many apologizing does it take to<br>&gt; &=
gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; put this thing behind us? People<br>&gt; keep<br>&gt;=
 &gt;&gt; forgetting that<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; issue<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt; &gt; of UPA is very divisive in Ukraine<br>
&gt; and it<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; runs along<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; ling=
uistic and geopolitical<br>&gt; divisions as<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; well. There<b=
r>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; are<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; millions of Ukr=
ainians who will<br>
&gt; always regard<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; UPA as<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; heroes=
<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; in spite of everything, just because<br>&gt=
; in<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; Western<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Ukraine<br>&gt; &gt=
;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; every other family was associated<br>
&gt; with them<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; in some<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; way or<br=
>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; suffered collective punishment for<br>&gt; the=
ir<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; activities.<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Yet on<br>&gt; &g=
t;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; the state level UPA is still not<br>
&gt; recognized<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; as the<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; WWII<br>&=
gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; participant. I am from central<br>&gt; Ukraine a=
nd<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; have<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; nothing to<br>&gt; &gt;&=
gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; do with UPA but still consider them<br>
&gt; heroes<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; just as the<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Red<br>&=
gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Army vets, because millions of my<br>&gt; compat=
riots<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; do so on<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; both<br>&gt; &gt;=
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; sides of the divide. There are<br>
&gt; different<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; views on this<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; in<=
br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; every family, people don&#39;t bring it<br>&=
gt; up in<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; company.<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; It is<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; EXTREMELY divisive and volatile<br>&gt; topic,<=
br>&gt; &gt;&gt; interference<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; of<br>&gt; &gt;&gt;=
 &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 outsiders in this brings it =
to the<br>
&gt; whole new<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; level. I<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; only<br>=
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; hope Poland won&#39;t<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;=
 &gt;=C2=A0 be playing the UPA card<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; as Russi=
a has for so many years. It<br>
&gt; will be<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; devastating for<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt=
;&gt; &gt; both peoples.<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &g=
t;&gt; &gt; --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Piotr Konieczny<br>&gt; &lt;piokon@post.pl&=
gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; wrote:<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &=
gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; From: Piotr Konieczny &lt;piokon@post.pl&gt;<br>=
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek<br>&gt; ,<=
br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Piotrus, Tymek<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; and<br>&gt; &gt;&gt;=
 &gt;&gt; &gt; others.<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; To: &quot;Wikipe=
dia statistics&quot;<br>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net"=
>folks@wikipedometer.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; Received: Monday, August 3,<br>&gt; 2009, =
6:42<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; AM<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; O. G. wrote:<b=
r>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; But in<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;=C2=
=A0 spite of that, for millions of<br>
&gt; Ukrainians<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; UPA<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt=
; &gt; &gt; always will be heroes, because<br>&gt; they<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; fo=
ught for<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; the<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; freed=
om<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; of their country.<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt=
; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; One men&#39;s<br>&gt; &gt;&=
gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 terrorist is another men&#39;s hero,<br>&gt; and<br=
>
&gt; &gt;&gt; there<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; is no<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&g=
t; &gt; &gt; denying that.<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; This is also=
 an attitude of<br>&gt; many<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; Lithuanian<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &=
gt;&gt; editors,<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; and<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; presuma=
bly a<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; sentiment shared more widely<br>&=
gt; among the<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; eastern<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; count=
ries. I<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; can<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; un=
derstand and I cannot blame<br>&gt; those who<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; after<br>&gt=
; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Soviet<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; repression s=
aw<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; German Nazis as liberators.<br>&gt; They<b=
r>&gt; &gt;&gt; couldn&#39;t<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; know<br>&gt; &gt;&gt=
; &gt;&gt; &gt; what was<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; really going o=
n.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; Still,=
 one should be able to<br>&gt; admit one<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; made a<br>&gt; &g=
t;&gt; &gt;&gt; mistake.<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Just<br>&gt; &gt;&g=
t; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; as Poles<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; should (and in some instances,<br>&gt; did=
)<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; apologize for<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; the<br>&gt; &gt;=
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; exceptional but<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 real massacres committed by AK<br>
&gt; and<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 other Poles<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&=
gt; &gt; &gt; (Jedwabne...), so should<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; =
those who threw their lot in<br>&gt; with the<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; Nazis and<br=
>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; worked<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; with<br>&gt; &=
gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; them<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; apologi=
ze for all the suffering<br>&gt; that<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; they<br>&gt; &gt;&gt=
; &gt;&gt; caused.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; Bottom=
 line is that there is no<br>&gt; white<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; and black,<br>&gt;=
 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; there<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; are<br>&gt; &gt;&gt=
; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; always shades<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; of gray (but shades that can<br>&gt; be<br=
>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 sometimes compared!), and<br>&gt; &gt;&g=
t; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; we have to<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; admit =
that many heroes were<br>
&gt; also, at the<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; same<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; time,<br>=
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; criminals.<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; PS I wouldn&#39;t be surprise=
d<br>
&gt; if<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; Russia<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; were<br>&gt; &gt;=
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; clandestinely financing people<br>&gt; in Poland<br=
>&gt; &gt;&gt; bringing<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; this<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt=
;&gt; &gt; issue<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; over and over again. Just a<br>&gt; guess.=
..<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; =
Good point, again. Let&#39;s not<br>&gt; loose the<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; sight<b=
r>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; of<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; the bigger<br>&gt;=
 &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; picture.<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;<b=
r>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; --<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; P=
iotr Konieczny<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &quot;=
The problem about<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 Wikipedia is, that it jus=
t<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; works in<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &g=
t; reality, not in<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; theory.&quot;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &g=
t; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; ______________=
_________________________________<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; Wikip=
edia statistics discussion<br>
&gt; list<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikip=
edometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a><br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &g=
t; <a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" targ=
et=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><b=
r>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt=
;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt=
; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; _________________=
_________________________________________________<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Get the name you&#39;ve always wanted<br>&gt; @=
<a href=3D"http://ymail.com/" target=3D"_blank">ymail.com</a><br>&gt; &gt;&=
gt; or<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; @<a href=3D"http://rocketmail.com/" t=
arget=3D"_blank">rocketmail.com</a>! Go to <a href=3D"http://ca.promos.yaho=
o.com/jacko/" target=3D"_blank">http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/jacko/</a><br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt;=
 _______________________________________________<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; =
&gt; Wikipedia statistics discussion<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 list<b=
r>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folk=
s@wikipedometer.net</a><br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"http://wi=
kipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D"_blank">http://wi=
kipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt;=
 &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt=
; -----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; ______________________________=
_________________<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Wikipedia statistics discu=
ssion<br>&gt; list<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:folks@w=
ikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a><br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mai=
lman/listinfo/folks" target=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mai=
lman/listinfo/folks</a><br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt=
;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<=
br>&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; __________________________________________________=
________________<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Yahoo! Canada Toolbar:<br>&gt; &=
gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 Search from anywhere on the web, and<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; bookmark your<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; favourite sites. Down=
load it now<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.co=
m/" target=3D"_blank">http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com</a>.<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt=
;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; ____________________________________________=
___<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br>&gt; =
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedo=
meter.net</a><br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/=
listinfo/folks" target=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/=
listinfo/folks</a><br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&=
gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; -----Inline Attachment Fol=
lows-----<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; _____=
__________________________________________<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Wikipe=
dia statistics discussion list<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wik=
ipedometer.net</a><br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://wikipedomete=
r.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D"_blank">http://wikipedomete=
r.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; =
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0__________________=
________________________________________________<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; The =
new Internet Explorer(R) 8 - Faster,<br>
&gt; safer,<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; easier.=C2=A0 Optimized for Yahoo!<br>&gt; &gt=
;&gt; &gt; Get it Now for Free! at <a href=3D"http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca=
/internetexplorer/" target=3D"_blank">http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/interne=
texplorer/</a><br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; __________________________=
_____________________<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Wikipedia statistics discussion=
 list<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folk=
s@wikipedometer.net</a><br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/list=
info/folks" target=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/list=
info/folks</a><br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt;=
 &gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; =
Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailt=
o:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a><br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt=
; <a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br=
>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; =
_______________________________________________<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; Wikipedia =
statistics discussion list<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikiped=
ometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a><br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/=
folks" target=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/=
folks</a><br>&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0<br>&gt; =C2=A0______________________________________________________=
____________<br>
&gt; &gt; Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of<br>&gt; Flickr!<br=
>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/gift/" target=3D"_=
blank">http://www.flickr.com/gift/</a><br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; __________=
_____________________________________<br>
&gt; &gt; Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br>&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mail=
to:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a><br>&gt; &gt; <a hre=
f=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D"_bl=
ank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br>
&gt; &gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt; _______________________________________________<b=
r>&gt; Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br>&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:folks=
@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a><br>&gt; <a href=3D"http://w=
ikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D"_blank">http://w=
ikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br>
&gt;<br><br><br></div></div>
<div class=3D"hm">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_____________________________________=
_____________________________<br>The new Internet Explorer=C2=AE 8 - Faster=
, safer, easier. =C2=A0Optimized for Yahoo! =C2=A0Get it Now for Free! at <=
a href=3D"http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/" target=3D"_blank=
">http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/</a><br>
</div>
<div>
<div></div>
<div class=3D"h5"><br>_______________________________________________<br>Wi=
kipedia statistics discussion list<br><a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer=
.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a><br><a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cg=
i-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cg=
i-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>

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_______________________________________________
Wikipedia statistics discussion list
folks@wikipedometer.net
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--===============2167028894115465760==--


