X-From_: folks-bounces@wikipedometer.net Sun Jun 14 17:00:15 2009
Return-Path: <folks-bounces@wikipedometer.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <6fb557d70906140739h7b2483cbladd07f39234ec1b7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <430756.3923.qm@web33301.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<f826636f0906061827w774f6400ree23dfb2b5c51dc9@mail.gmail.com>
	<6fb557d70906080531s492a2a09w494e6e38d4ff7d77@mail.gmail.com>
	<f826636f0906080758y6824f97ah77013351f0b0b0f5@mail.gmail.com>
	<6fb557d70906090932w1b58e374w647634f714ce98a2@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A2EAA65.6030802@post.pl>
	<6fb557d70906100340m7baaf1b1qadc5b01bb9c2efea@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A2FE28F.808@post.pl>
	<6c9a05ec0906130943v5997f791w39fa4ad026b697a3@mail.gmail.com>
	<6fb557d70906140739h7b2483cbladd07f39234ec1b7@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 17:00:00 +0200
Message-ID: <6c9a05ec0906140800w50625368s3cacb1f5adeca613@mail.gmail.com>
From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
X-Spam_score: -0.4
X-Spam_score_int: -3
X-Spam_bar: /
X-Spam_report: Spam detection software, running on the system "pakkun.mirky.net", has
	identified this incoming email as possible spam.  The original message
	has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label
	similar future email.  If you have any questions, see
	the administrator of that system for details.
	Content preview:  The Polish nationalists that I encountered on Wiki
	usually came from "Ukrainians are murderers" camp, and constantly
	harassed UPA articles and articles about Ukraine. Both I and Piotrus
	were I believe attacked as "Ukrainian spies/Ukrainian nationalists". One
	of those was quite persistent on UPA article. As you perhaps noted
	English Wikipedia is not popular much amongst Poles(compared to size of
	Polish population) so we don't get as much of Polish nationalists as
	those from Russia or Germany. Lack of English-language skills is also a
	issue I believe. I know that they are pan-Slavic neo-nazis in Poland but
	that is absolute fringe and I don't think we encountered them on Wiki
	besides a comment or two in certain articles about symphatic parties to
	their cause. They tend to be pro-Russian in somewhat more bizarre way.
	Another Polish nationalists that I encountered are more in line with
	Smith2006-a fiercely orthodox christian catholic fringe group. Beliefs
	of interest to Wiki include shared belief in German war propaganda about
	English atrocities or claims about Bolshevik crusade. Sometimes they are
	very sensitive to German war crimes and deny them as "allied
	propaganda'. They are really similiar to Smith2006-in part because it is
	a somewhat pan-European far right movement focused on radical christian
	thought that they come from. I encountered those kind of people on
	Polish internet and in real life-but they are not that popular. They
	conceal most of their beliefs whan dealing with right-wing movements in
	Poland focusing their message about Soviet Union and sometimes
	idolisation of non-German Waffen SS units. A very popular person for
	example is Léon Degrelle. But, again, this is a fringe group and I
	didn't encountered it on wikipedia. [...] 
	Content analysis details:   (-0.4 points, 5.0 required)
	pts rule name              description
	---- ---------------------- --------------------------------------------------
	-2.6 BAYES_00               BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1%
	[score: 0.0000]
	1.7 DNS_FROM_RFC_POST      RBL: Envelope sender in
	postmaster.rfc-ignorant.org
	0.5 AWL                    AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7-deb (2006-10-05) on 
	pakkun.mirky.net
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,
	DNS_FROM_RFC_POST autolearn=no version=3.1.7-deb
Subject: Re: [WPM] More cabal theory
X-BeenThere: folks@wikipedometer.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
List-Id: Wikipedia statistics <folks.wikipedometer.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks>,
	<mailto:folks-request@wikipedometer.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Post: <mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net>
List-Help: <mailto:folks-request@wikipedometer.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks>,
	<mailto:folks-request@wikipedometer.net?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sender: folks-bounces@wikipedometer.net
Errors-To: folks-bounces@wikipedometer.net
X-Spam_score: -0.4
X-Spam_score_int: -3
X-Spam_bar: /
X-Spam_report: Spam detection software, running on the system "pakkun.mirky.net", has
	identified this incoming email as possible spam.  The original message
	has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label
	similar future email.  If you have any questions, see
	the administrator of that system for details.
	Content preview:  The Polish nationalists that I encountered on Wiki
	usually came from "Ukrainians are murderers" camp, and constantly
	harassed UPA articles and articles about Ukraine. Both I and Piotrus
	were I believe attacked as "Ukrainian spies/Ukrainian nationalists". One
	of those was quite persistent on UPA article. As you perhaps noted
	English Wikipedia is not popular much amongst Poles(compared to size of
	Polish population) so we don't get as much of Polish nationalists as
	those from Russia or Germany. Lack of English-language skills is also a
	issue I believe. I know that they are pan-Slavic neo-nazis in Poland but
	that is absolute fringe and I don't think we encountered them on Wiki
	besides a comment or two in certain articles about symphatic parties to
	their cause. They tend to be pro-Russian in somewhat more bizarre way.
	Another Polish nationalists that I encountered are more in line with
	Smith2006-a fiercely orthodox christian catholic fringe group. Beliefs
	of interest to Wiki include shared belief in German war propaganda about
	English atrocities or claims about Bolshevik crusade. Sometimes they are
	very sensitive to German war crimes and deny them as "allied
	propaganda'. They are really similiar to Smith2006-in part because it is
	a somewhat pan-European far right movement focused on radical christian
	thought that they come from. I encountered those kind of people on
	Polish internet and in real life-but they are not that popular. They
	conceal most of their beliefs whan dealing with right-wing movements in
	Poland focusing their message about Soviet Union and sometimes
	idolisation of non-German Waffen SS units. A very popular person for
	example is Léon Degrelle. But, again, this is a fringe group and I
	didn't encountered it on wikipedia. [...] 
	Content analysis details:   (-0.4 points, 5.0 required)
	pts rule name              description
	---- ---------------------- --------------------------------------------------
	-2.6 BAYES_00               BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1%
	[score: 0.0000]
	1.7 DNS_FROM_RFC_POST      RBL: Envelope sender in
	postmaster.rfc-ignorant.org
	0.5 AWL                    AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list

The Polish nationalists that I encountered on Wiki usually came from
"Ukrainians are murderers" camp, and constantly harassed UPA articles
and articles about Ukraine. Both I and Piotrus were I believe attacked
as "Ukrainian spies/Ukrainian nationalists". One of those was quite
persistent on UPA article.
As you perhaps noted English Wikipedia is not popular much amongst
Poles(compared to size of Polish population) so we don't get as much
of Polish nationalists as those from Russia or Germany. Lack of
English-language skills is also a issue I believe.
I know that they are pan-Slavic neo-nazis in Poland but that is
absolute fringe and I don't think we encountered them on Wiki besides
a comment or two in certain articles about symphatic parties to their
cause. They tend to be pro-Russian in somewhat more bizarre way.
Another Polish nationalists that I encountered are more in line with
Smith2006-a fiercely orthodox christian catholic fringe group. Beliefs
of interest to Wiki include shared belief in German war propaganda
about English atrocities or claims about Bolshevik crusade. Sometimes
they are very sensitive to German war crimes and deny them as "allied
propaganda'. They are really similiar to Smith2006-in part because it
is  a somewhat pan-European far right movement focused on radical
christian thought  that they come from.
I encountered those kind of people on Polish internet and in real
life-but they are not that popular. They conceal most of their beliefs
whan dealing with right-wing movements in Poland focusing their
message about Soviet Union and sometimes idolisation of non-German
Waffen SS units. A very popular person for example is L=E9on Degrelle.
But, again, this is a fringe group and I didn't encountered it on
wikipedia.

On Polish Wikipedia nationalism besides that aimed at Kresy region and
showing it as Polish is not present much. Polish wikipedia has very
elite based admin cadre which has pro-liberal and rather pro-left
views and Polish nationalism is very much opposed there. On the other
hand people from a organisation that is marginal in real-life
politics-Silesian Autonomy Movement-are quite active(This serves as
example that Wikipedia is very attractive to movements coming from
non-mainstream politics, as it allows them to compete with mainstream
views)


W dniu 14 czerwca 2009 16:39 u=BFytkownik Miacek and his crime-fighting
dog <miacek08@googlemail.com> napisa=B3:
> You seem to have rather well familiarized yourself with different
> types of German nationalist, Neo-Nazi, Holocaust denial accounts and
> similar trolls in Wiki. Do you happen to recall some Polish
> nationalists, too, whom you've encountered here in wiki?
>
> (I've been to Poland, liked that country very much. No Polonophobia
> from me. Though no support for patent Germanophobia either ;-))
>
> '''Miacek''
>
> On 13/06/2009, Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com> wrote:
>> It's far more compliacted then Neo-Nazi editors. Basically Germany has
>> managed to avoid certain issues connected to German nationalism by putti=
ng
>> an image of Neo-Nazis=3DNationalists. But nationalism in Germany is not
>> limited to neo-nazi movement, some nationalists actually can even hate
>> neonazis or Hitler simply out of the fact that they lost war. Also Nazism
>> was quite socialist in certain aspects. Users like Smith2006 for example=
 are
>> representing radical christian right that can be also found in Poland. W=
hile
>> they will be against outright nazism, they will support claims of German
>> nationalists.
>> And completely different breed of German nationalism if what I observed =
in
>> German left-this is "German are superior Europeans" nationalism. It is m=
ade
>> of belieft that Germany has made the greatest attempts to deal with its =
past
>> while others didn't and all European countries should take responsibility
>> like Germans did for WW2. Their "dealing with the past" is concentrated =
only
>> on Jewish issues-atrocities against Poles will be countered with the Ger=
man
>> propaganda about Polish fault for WW2, and "Polish nationalism". User
>> Thorsten1 would be a good example of this kind of thinking.
>>
>> German cabal I would define into following groups:
>>
>> Neo-Nazis-very rare and burn out shortly, examples include Npovshark,
>> Kurf=FCrst-obvious attempts to show Nazi propaganda as truth
>>
>> German conservative nationalism-will focus on alledged German civilisati=
onal
>> role in the "barbarian East", attacks on Czechs and Poles for
>> "discrimination of Germans",  try to present cities in Poland and Czech
>> Republic as "eternally German", show Central and Eastern Europea as
>> barbaric, non-developed and lacking any development if not ruled bviy
>> Germans. Users Matthead, Skapperod, Smith2006 go into this group
>>
>> Revisionists-try to portay Nazi Germany as "normal country". Allies as u=
sing
>> genocide and mass murder against Germans, Nazi propaganda as having "gra=
in
>> of truth", focus on equalising German "suffering" with Holocaust. Attemp=
ts
>> to smuggle Nazi claims in subtle way into the text. User Stork Stark7 and
>> Skapperod will be in that group.
>>
>> German "superior Europeans"-present Germans as not caring about "national
>> issues"-while constantly writing about them. Arrogant attitude to Central
>> Europeans that "must learn from Germans". Belief that Poles and Central
>> Europeans are equally responsible for WW2 and Holocaust as Germans and i=
ts
>> time they admit it. Sometims brings up German nationalist propaganda.
>> UserThorsten1 belongs to this group, but in general this is a fairly
>> widespread public view in Germany.
>>
>> W dniu 10 czerwca 2009 18:42 u=BFytkownik Piotr Konieczny
>> <piokon@post.pl>napisa=B3:
>>
>>> Miacek and his crime-fighting dog wrote:
>>> > I was thinking it's just one of those Danzig-Gda=F1sk / Stettin Sczce=
cin
>>> issues.
>>> >
>>> > If he is indeed one of the Greater Germany cabal or even a Neo-Nazi,
>>> > then he should be banned. Who are the other accounts you would include
>>> > in such a faction?
>>>
>>> Check
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Eastern=
_European_disputes/Evidence#Tag_team_3:_German
>>>
>>> There were few editors active in the past who no longer are (Jadger...).
>>>  I am sure Molobo can add a few more names.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Prokonsul Piotrus aka Piotr Konieczny       |||____  __ __
>>>                                       I=3DI=3D=3D=3D=3D__|_|I__I=3D>
>>> "Lennier, get us the hell out of here."     |||
>>> "Initiating 'getting the hell out of here' maneuver."
>>>  -- Ivanova and Lennier in Babylon 5:"The Hour of the Wolf"
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
>>> folks@wikipedometer.net
>>> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> folks@wikipedometer.net
> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>

_______________________________________________
Wikipedia statistics discussion list
folks@wikipedometer.net
http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks

