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Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 19:58:12 -0400
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From: Andrei Dombay <wikibiophys@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview:  That's right. Most editors work on their own, do not
	form a Cabal, do not strongly coordinate their actions, and occasionally
	have disputes that are often resolved after normal discussion. Only a
	few (such as currently Offliner, Russavia, PasswordUsername, Beatle Fab,
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Subject: Re: [WPM] More cabal theory
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That's right. Most editors work on their  own, do not form a Cabal, do not
strongly coordinate their actions, and occasionally have disputes that are
often resolved after normal discussion. Only a few (such as currently
Offliner, Russavia, PasswordUsername, Beatle Fab, and perhaps Shotlandya)
work as a real team, which is highly visible. The team of Estonian editors
is also visible.

On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Christian Suciu <christiansuciu@yahoo.com>w=
rote:

> Cabals can be tight, but they can also often be loose. For instance, amon=
g
> the Romanian editors have been
> *Me (Biruitorul)
> *Dc76 (Dorin)
> *Dahn
> *Ronline (admin)
> *Bogdangiusca (admin)
> *Olahus
> *Dpotop
> *MariusM
> *Bonaparte
> *Anonimu.
>
> Dahn is the most prolific Romanian editor, but he's only very loosely
> affiliated with what I'd call a cabal. Bogdangiusca, Ronline and I typica=
lly
> take his positions, though. (One exception was when I objected to the rat=
her
> absurd descriptor "Moldovan-Romanian", preferring something more natural
> like "Moldovan living in Romania".) And he and I are very close wiki-alli=
es,
> despite him being a socialist and I a conservative. Dorin also gets along
> relatively well with him, although Dorin and I are much more ideologicall=
y
> aligned than either of us is with Dahn. Also interesting is the fact that
> Dahn only reads, but doesn't send, e-mail - says "my computer can only re=
ad
> e-mail", which is a laughable excuse (as if Romania has just one computer=
,
> or he can't subscribe to another provider), but whatever.
>
> Anonimu actually had an interesting relationship with Dahn: the latter
> never forcefully objected to him, and during Anonimu's RfC, ANIs, and
> finally ArbCom, Dahn said barely a word. Regardless, if you want to do we=
ll
> on editing Romanian topics, you need to be somewhat on Dahn's side;
> otherwise, as editors like Icar found out, you may be banned. Dorin and I
> are both a little weary of Dahn's focus on Jews and Gypsies, but such is
> life. By that I mean, it seems his entire judgment of a man is dependent =
on
> how he saw the Jews: for instance, the great Archbishop Nicolae B=C4=83la=
n is
> dismissed as an anti-Semite, as is the beloved poet Vasile Alecsandri, wh=
ile
> obscure figures who held more positive ideas about Jews such as Alexandru
> Bogdan-Pite=C5=9Fti are lavished with attention.
>
> Among Hungarian editors, one can recall K. Lastochka, Alensha, Hobartimus=
,
> Istvan, Zello, KIDB, KissL, Koppany and Squash Racket. It seems they too =
are
> rather loosely organised. But they may be more so on the Slovak front - i=
t
> seems Hungarians have far more confrontations with Slovaks than with
> Romanians. Although Squash Racket recently made the rather absurd claim t=
hat
> Hungarians found Transylvania empty when they settled there and "allowed"
> Romanians in to settle(!)
>
> The Bulgarians have TodorBozhinov, Jingiby, Laveol and a few
> others. TodorBozhinov is quite prolific and also not that cabal-ish,
> except when it comes to Macedonia/FYROM. There, Bulgarian editors
> vigorously fight Macedonian ones. I've never seen a single serious
> Macedonian editor - theirs is a fake country with a fake history, so
> naturally they have an inferiority complex vis-=C3=A0-vis Bulgaria, Serbi=
a and
> Greece.
>
> Speaking of Greece, the Greeks have (as they've freely admitted to me) a
> tightly-organised cabal (admin Yannismarou, NikoSilver, Cplakidas,
> Tasoskessaris, Kekrops, etc). They occasionally fight Turks (a looser cab=
al)
> but more often Macedonians. I also have a vague impression that Armenians
> and Azerbaijanis have cabals to fight each other, but I'm not sure. Also
> Georgians, led by Kober - and given the situation with Georgia, I reitera=
te
> my call to invite Kober here.
>
> By the way, what's going on with editing Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan,
> Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and Tajikistan? Those were always the quietest
> parts of the USSR, and have tended to remain close to Russia, but it seem=
s
> they should get more coverage. KazakhPol was prolific, but sadly left us.
> The Tajik Civil War lasted 5 years and killed up to 100,000, but we have
> just 11 paragraphs on it. By contrast, the Russia-Georgia war, which last=
ed
> under two weeks and left a couple hundred dead, gets ~100 paragraphs, plu=
s
> well over a dozen sub-articles. Interesting.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> folks@wikipedometer.net
> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>
>

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That&#39;s right. Most editors work on their=C2=A0 own, do not form a Cabal=
, do not strongly coordinate their actions, and occasionally have disputes =
that are often resolved after normal discussion. Only a few (such as curren=
tly Offliner, Russavia, PasswordUsername, Beatle Fab, and perhaps Shotlandy=
a) work as a real team, which is highly visible. The team of Estonian edito=
rs is also visible.=C2=A0  <br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Christian Su=
ciu <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:christiansuciu@yahoo.com">chris=
tiansuciu@yahoo.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt=
 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0"><tbody><tr><td styl=
e=3D"font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font=
-weight: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-size-adjus=
t: inherit; font-stretch: inherit;" valign=3D"top">
Cabals can be tight, but they can also often be loose. For instance, among =
the Romanian editors have been<div><br></div><div>*Me (Biruitorul)</div><di=
v>*Dc76 (Dorin)</div><div>*Dahn</div><div>*Ronline (admin)</div><div>*Bogda=
ngiusca (admin)</div>
<div>*Olahus</div><div>*Dpotop</div><div>*MariusM</div><div>*Bonaparte</div=
><div>*Anonimu.</div><div><br></div><div>Dahn is the most prolific Romanian=
 editor, but he&#39;s only very loosely affiliated with what I&#39;d call a=
 cabal.=C2=A0Bogdangiusca, Ronline and I typically take his positions, thou=
gh. (One exception was when I objected to the rather absurd descriptor &quo=
t;Moldovan-Romanian&quot;, preferring something more natural like &quot;Mol=
dovan living in Romania&quot;.) And he and I are very close wiki-allies, de=
spite him being a socialist and I a conservative. Dorin also gets along rel=
atively well with him, although Dorin and I are much more
 ideologically aligned than either of us is with Dahn. Also interesting is =
the fact that Dahn only reads, but doesn&#39;t send, e-mail - says &quot;my=
 computer can only read e-mail&quot;, which is a laughable excuse (as if Ro=
mania has just one computer, or he can&#39;t subscribe to another provider)=
, but whatever.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Anonimu actually had an interesting relationship with D=
ahn: the latter never forcefully objected to him, and during Anonimu&#39;s =
RfC, ANIs, and finally ArbCom, Dahn said barely a word. Regardless, if you =
want to do well on editing Romanian topics, you need to be somewhat on Dahn=
&#39;s side; otherwise, as editors like Icar found out, you may be banned. =
Dorin and I are both a little weary of Dahn&#39;s focus on Jews and Gypsies=
, but such is life. By that I mean, it seems his entire judgment of a man i=
s dependent on how he saw the Jews: for instance, the great Archbishop Nico=
lae=C2=A0B=C4=83lan is dismissed as an anti-Semite, as is the beloved poet=
=C2=A0Vasile
 Alecsandri, while obscure figures who held more positive ideas about Jews =
such as=C2=A0Alexandru Bogdan-Pite=C5=9Fti are lavished with attention.</di=
v><div><br></div><div>Among Hungarian editors, one can recall=C2=A0K. Lasto=
chka,=C2=A0Alensha,=C2=A0Hobartimus, Istvan, Zello, KIDB, KissL, Koppany an=
d Squash Racket. It seems they too are rather loosely organised. But they m=
ay be more so on the Slovak front - it seems Hungarians have far more confr=
ontations with Slovaks than with Romanians. Although Squash Racket recently=
 made the rather absurd claim that Hungarians found Transylvania empty when=
 they settled there and &quot;allowed&quot; Romanians in to settle(!)</div>
<div><br></div><div>The Bulgarians have TodorBozhinov, Jingiby, Laveol and =
a few others.=C2=A0TodorBozhinov is quite prolific and also not that cabal-=
ish, <span style=3D"font-style: italic;">except</span>=C2=A0when it comes t=
o Macedonia/FYROM. There, Bulgarian editors vigorously fight Macedonian one=
s. I&#39;ve
 never seen a single serious Macedonian editor - theirs is a fake country w=
ith a fake history, so naturally they have an inferiority complex vis-=C3=
=A0-vis Bulgaria, Serbia and Greece.</div><div><br></div><div>Speaking of G=
reece, the Greeks have (as they&#39;ve freely admitted to me) a tightly-org=
anised cabal (admin Yannismarou, NikoSilver, Cplakidas, Tasoskessaris, Kekr=
ops, etc). They occasionally fight Turks (a looser cabal) but more often Ma=
cedonians. I also have a vague impression that Armenians and Azerbaijanis h=
ave cabals to fight each other, but I&#39;m not sure. Also Georgians, led b=
y Kober - and given the situation with Georgia, I reiterate my call to invi=
te Kober here.</div>
<div><br></div><div>By the way, what&#39;s going on with editing Kazakhstan=
, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and Tajikistan? Those were always th=
e quietest parts of the USSR, and have tended to remain close to Russia, bu=
t it seems they should get more coverage. KazakhPol was prolific,
 but sadly left us. The Tajik Civil War lasted 5 years and killed up to 100=
,000, but we have just 11 paragraphs on it. By contrast, the Russia-Georgia=
 war, which lasted under two weeks and left a couple hundred dead, gets ~10=
0 paragraphs, plus well over a dozen sub-articles. Interesting.</div>
</td></tr></tbody></table><br>

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