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Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 05:57:44 +0200
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From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview: O.G please note that most of us here fully understand
	the wrongdoings of the Polish side in Ukrainian-Polish relations and I
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Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and others.
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O.G please note that most of us here fully understand the wrongdoings
of the Polish side in Ukrainian-Polish relations and I am certain
Piotrus or Radek would help in making any articles devoted to that
subject.


2009/8/3 O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>:
>
> Whatever it is, eh? This is POLISH history, it is surprising that some Po=
les are more interested in how many of their own was killed and are complet=
ely oblivious of how many the Polish state killed of others. Writing about =
these things is not anti-Ukrainian, but writing ONLY about these things at =
the expense of such well khown actions as Pacifikacia and twisting articles=
 to represent only one side as suffering is indeed anti-Ukrainian. Reading =
one sided and biased crap on Wikipedia one can get an impression that savag=
e Ukrainians did nothing but were massacaring innocent Poles, who didn't ev=
en hurt a fly. Far from it. There is enough blame to go around...
>
> --- On Mon, 8/3/09, piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> From: piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and others.
>> To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
>> Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 10:35 AM
>> Oh come on. Just write an article
>> about Pacifikacija, whatever it is. I will read it with
>> interest. Also, if murdering almost 1000 civilians in one
>> day, as in Wola Ostrowiecka and Ostrowki, is a petty thing,
>> then I do not really know what you see as worth mentioning.
>>
>>
>> Is describing=A0these
>> events=A0"anti-Ukrainian"? Is describing
>> Holocaust "anti-German"?
>>
>> Tymek
>>
>> --- On Sun, 8/2/09, O. G.
>> <hillock@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>
>> Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and
>> others.
>> To: "Wikipedia statistics"
>> <folks@wikipedometer.net>
>> Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 10:11 PM
>>
>>
>>
>> I knew someone will take my hyposis about Russian interest
>> in this personally. Apparently you have a lot to learn about
>> UPA and AK and their activities. No one is trying to
>> whitewash the UPA, they did what they did. There is hardly a
>> force in WWII who didn't commit objectionable acts. That
>> goes for AK in particular, which massacred up to 20,000
>> Ukrainians in reprisal killings. http://web.ku.edu/~eceurope/hist557/lec=
t17.htm
>>
>> This must be a thing with some Poles to piss and moan about
>> every little thing someone caused them. There are several
>> anti-Ukrainian articles about UPA atrocities, The Volhyn
>> Massacre is jus an example of the egregeous, one sided
>> anti-Ukrainian rant. If you are so concerned about the
>> truth, why not write an article on Pacifikacija? Or this is
>> not part of the Polish history? Or you conveniently prefer
>> to turn a blind eye to it?
>> =A0Start from there...
>>
>>
>> --- On Mon, 8/3/09, piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > From: piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and
>> others.
>> > To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
>> > Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 9:34 AM
>> > Oh yes, I am one of these persons
>> > financed by the Russians. They=A0have paid me 50
>> > Belarusian rubles, since paying in Russian currency
>> would be
>> > too obvious, and they wanted to keep it a secret.
>> >
>> > OK,
>> =A0let us be serious here. Ukrainian Insurgent Army
>> > commited atrocities on a large scale, in fact killing
>> Polish
>> > civilians was the main activity of this organization
>> for
>> > several months. Polish Home Army did commit crimes,
>> but it
>> > never planned extermination of Polish minorities, not
>> to
>> > mention carrying out such a plan.
>> >
>> > UIA is regarded as heroes in Western Ukraine only,
>> and
>> > also there older generations call them bandits, as
>> this
>> > organization terrorized Ukrainians, and also killed
>> > thousands of their fellow countrymen, those who did
>> not want
>> > to cooperate/kill their Polish neighbors, just look at
>> the
>> > fate of Bulba-Borovets. There are Ukrainian sources
>> which
>> > support what I have written. I am shocked that the
>> great
>> > nation of Ukraine cannot find different role models
>> than
>> > Roman Skuhevych, leader of Sluzba Bezpeky, one of the
>> most
>> >
>> =A0murderous and fanatical organizations of WW2.
>> >
>> > It is interesting that the Ukrainian side frequently
>> > mentions atrocities commited by the Poles in Volhynia,
>> but I
>> > have not seen a single description of these massacres
>> with a
>> > date and a location.
>> >
>> > Tymek
>> >
>> >
>> > --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Piotr Konieczny
>> > <piokon@post.pl>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > From: Piotr Konieczny <piokon@post.pl>
>> > Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and
>> > others.
>> > To: "Wikipedia statistics"
>> > <folks@wikipedometer.net>
>> > Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 6:42 PM
>> >
>> >
>> > O. G. wrote:
>> > > But in spite of that, for millions of Ukrainians
>> UPA
>> > always will be heroes, because they fought for the
>> freedom
>> > of their country.
>> >
>> > One men's terrorist is another men's hero,
>> and
>> > there is no denying that.
>> > This is also an attitude of many Lithuanian editors,
>> and
>> > presumably a
>> > sentiment shared more widely among the eastern
>> countries. I
>> > can
>> > understand and I cannot blame those who after Soviet
>> > repression saw
>> > German Nazis as liberators. They couldn't know
>> what was
>> > really going on.
>> >
>> > Still, one should be able to admit one made a mistake.
>> Just
>> > as Poles
>> > should (and in some instances, did) apologize for the
>> > exceptional but
>> > real massacres
>> =A0committed by AK and other Poles
>> > (Jedwabne...), so should
>> > those who threw their lot in with the Nazis and worked
>> with
>> > them
>> > apologize for all the suffering that they caused.
>> >
>> > Bottom line is that there is no white and black, there
>> are
>> > always
>> >=A0 shades
>> > of gray (but shades that can be sometimes compared!),
>> and
>> > we have to
>> > admit that many heroes were also, at the same time,
>> > criminals.
>> >
>> > > PS I wouldn't be surprised if Russia were
>> > clandestinely financing people in Poland bringing this
>> issue
>> > over and over again. Just a guess...
>> >
>> > Good point, again. Let's not loose the sight of
>> the
>> > bigger picture.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Piotr Konieczny
>> >
>> > "The problem about Wikipedia is, that it just
>> works in
>> > reality, not in
>> > theory."
>> >
>> >
>> =A0_______________________________________________
>> > Wikipedia statistics discussion list
>> > folks@wikipedometer.net
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>>
>>
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