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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 17:19:39 +0300
Message-ID: <929ed1ec0906140719l7e575660kee47c5de9ef268fd@mail.gmail.com>
From: Digwuren <digwuren@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview:  On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 16:39, Sander Säde
	<sander.sade@gmail.com> wrote: > > > - Soon after the incident, we will
	file a RfC about several of them > (PasswordUsername, Russavia and
	Offliner are the best candidates, imho) - > filing should become from
	someone involved, but not heavily - maybe Miacek? > RfC should be very
	dry and precise, only diffs and explanations, no personal > feelings or
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	the time comes, it can be filed rapidly, requiring only update to
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	private for now. [...] 
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Subject: Re: [WPM] Further strategy on pro-Soviet cabal
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	Content preview:  On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 16:39, Sander Säde
	<sander.sade@gmail.com> wrote: > > > - Soon after the incident, we will
	file a RfC about several of them > (PasswordUsername, Russavia and
	Offliner are the best candidates, imho) - > filing should become from
	someone involved, but not heavily - maybe Miacek? > RfC should be very
	dry and precise, only diffs and explanations, no personal > feelings or
	comments. > > I suggest we start writing the RfC immediately, so when
	the time comes, it can be filed rapidly, requiring only update to
	reflect the most recent developments. Naturally, we should keep it
	private for now. [...] 
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On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 16:39, Sander S=C3=A4de <sander.sade@gmail.com> wro=
te:
>
>
>    - Soon after the incident, we will file a RfC about several of them
>    (PasswordUsername, Russavia and Offliner are the best candidates, imho=
) -
>    filing should become from someone involved, but not heavily - maybe Mi=
acek?
>    RfC should be very dry and precise, only diffs and explanations, no pe=
rsonal
>    feelings or comments.
>
> I suggest we start writing the RfC immediately, so when the time comes, i=
t
can be filed rapidly, requiring only update to reflect the most recent
developments.  Naturally, we should keep it private for now.

>
>    - New incidents will unevitably happen, hopefully one of the cabal
>    leaders (PU) will have a major slip like today. We escalate them sligt=
hly,
>    carefully being civil and within sources, also avoiding 3RR violations=
. Best
>    we could hope for are some major BLP violations.
>
> PU is not yet a leader.  PU is a co=C3=B6perative outlier.  "Fellow trave=
ller",
perhaps.  But this may be changing.

>
>    - midst as well - probably Digwuren will be hit by another ban,
>
> Which means that I'll disappear by the arbcom time, if not before.
 Ghirlandajo's first arbcom has taught us that this is effective.

>
>    - I might face the ban-hammer, too. However, for the minimum, the
>    opposing cabal will have majority of its members banned for a long per=
iod
>    and rest admonished to the point where they don't dare to touch anythi=
ng
>    Baltics-related.
>
> I'm not sure it works that way.  For one, there's considerable turnover
among the Cartel. For another, if you're on Wikipedia to push Soviet agenda=
,
you won't care about being banned from other articles.   Mission from Lenin
and all that crusade stuff.

While we should be ready for arbcom, I wouldn't recommend banking on it.
 Arbcoms are notoriously hard to tame.

In any case, a single event is not sustainable.  For sustainability, we'll
need a *process* that can deal with the Cartel as it develops.  And this
means, we'll need sympathetic administrators.  In the short term, it's
useful that the post-Irpen Cartel has become somewhat sloppy.  In the long
term, RFAs are the way to go.
--=20
Andres Soolo

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<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 16:39, Sander S=C3=A4de =
<span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sander.sade@gmail.com">sander.sade@=
gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<ul><li>Soon after the incident, we will file a RfC about several of them (=
PasswordUsername, Russavia and Offliner are the best candidates, imho) - fi=
ling should become from someone involved, but not heavily - maybe Miacek? R=
fC should be very dry and precise, only diffs and explanations, no personal=
 feelings or comments.</li>
</ul></blockquote><div>I suggest we start writing the RfC immediately, so w=
hen the time comes, it can be filed rapidly, requiring only update to refle=
ct the most recent developments. =C2=A0Naturally, we should keep it private=
 for now.</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><ul><li>New incidents will unevitably happe=
n, hopefully one of the cabal leaders (PU) will have a major slip like toda=
y. We escalate them sligthly, carefully being civil and within sources, als=
o avoiding 3RR violations. Best we could hope for are some major BLP violat=
ions.</li>
</ul></blockquote><div>PU is not yet a leader. =C2=A0PU is a co=C3=B6perati=
ve outlier. =C2=A0&quot;Fellow traveller&quot;, perhaps. =C2=A0But this may=
 be changing.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<ul><li>midst as well - probably Digwuren will be hit by another ban,</li><=
/ul></blockquote><div>Which means that I&#39;ll disappear by the arbcom tim=
e, if not before. =C2=A0Ghirlandajo&#39;s first arbcom has taught us that t=
his is effective.</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><ul><li> I might face the ban-hammer, too. =
However, for the minimum, the opposing cabal will have majority of its memb=
ers banned for a long period and rest admonished to the point where they do=
n&#39;t dare to touch anything Baltics-related.</li>
</ul></blockquote><div>I&#39;m not sure it works that way. =C2=A0For one, t=
here&#39;s considerable turnover among the Cartel. For another, if you&#39;=
re on Wikipedia to push Soviet agenda, you won&#39;t care about being banne=
d from other articles. =C2=A0 Mission from Lenin and all that crusade stuff=
.</div>
<div><br></div><div>While we should be ready for arbcom, I wouldn&#39;t rec=
ommend banking on it. =C2=A0Arbcoms are notoriously hard to tame.</div><div=
><br></div><div>In any case, a single event is not sustainable. =C2=A0For s=
ustainability, we&#39;ll need a *process* that can deal with the Cartel as =
it develops. =C2=A0And this means, we&#39;ll need sympathetic administrator=
s. =C2=A0In the short term, it&#39;s useful that the post-Irpen Cartel has =
become somewhat sloppy. =C2=A0In the long term, RFAs are the way to go.</di=
v>
</div>-- <br>Andres Soolo<br>

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