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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:51:13 -0500
Message-ID: <25890ca0906141251g418db961p3fbe520eeffdfb2c@mail.gmail.com>
From: radek szulga <rsszulga@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview:  Same here. On the Lithuanian side, this is something
	that'd be a lot easier to compromise/come to an agreement on if Lokyz
	and M.K weren't such total assholes personality wise (first time I met
	M.K was when he tried to get me blocked for 3RR in an edit war he
	wasn't
	even part of - he just saw a Polish editor and went after me). It's
	also
	a typical example of one extremist editor, M.K, radicalizing others
	(reading way back in the archives it seems like Lokyz actually started
	out semi reasonable). At this point I'd agree with just a consistent
	current name usage throughout, just to kill all the pointless edit wars
	- though I'm sure it'd just move on to warring over alternative names
	to be included. [...] 
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Subject: Re: [WPM] More cabal theory
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	Content preview:  Same here. On the Lithuanian side, this is something
	that'd be a lot easier to compromise/come to an agreement on if Lokyz
	and M.K weren't such total assholes personality wise (first time I met
	M.K was when he tried to get me blocked for 3RR in an edit war he wasn't
	even part of - he just saw a Polish editor and went after me). It's also
	a typical example of one extremist editor, M.K, radicalizing others
	(reading way back in the archives it seems like Lokyz actually started
	out semi reasonable). At this point I'd agree with just a consistent
	current name usage throughout, just to kill all the pointless edit wars
	- though I'm sure it'd just move on to warring over alternative names to
	be included. [...] 
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Same here. On the Lithuanian side, this is something that'd be a lot
easier to compromise/come to an agreement on if Lokyz and M.K weren't
such total assholes personality wise (first time I met M.K was when he
tried to get me blocked for 3RR in an edit war he wasn't even part of
- he just saw a Polish editor and went after me). It's also a typical
example of one extremist editor, M.K, radicalizing others (reading way
back in the archives it seems like Lokyz actually started out semi
reasonable).
At this point I'd agree with just a consistent current name usage
throughout, just to kill all the pointless edit wars - though I'm sure
it'd just move on to warring over alternative names to be included.

Radek

2009/6/14 piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>:
> What pisses me off is the whole war of "names of towns and cities", which=
 is
> being waged mostly by the Germans. I know that Szczecin belonged to Germa=
ny
> for hundreds of years, but does it really make any sense to change the na=
me
> to Stettin, according to the timeline?
>
> Let us take Latvian Daugavpilis, which as Dyneburg also was Polish for so=
me
> time. It is totally silly to change the name of this city when we write
> about its 18th century history, and I do not do it.Yes, I have changed Lv=
iv
> to Lwow, or names of some Lithuanian places, but this is all my reaction =
to
> the efforts of some German and Lithuanian idiots. Silly wars about nothin=
g -
> just use the current names Szczecin, Lviv and Daugavpilis=A0all the time,
> without any changes, after all everybody these are same cities, no matter
> what names are. Watching edits of Dr Dan, Skaperod and Lokyz, I simply
> cannot resist and I get engaged in these wars myself. If only everybody
> could come to some conclusion.
> Tymek
> --- On Sun, 6/14/09, radek szulga <rsszulga@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: radek szulga <rsszulga@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [WPM] More cabal theory
> To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009, 1:25 PM
>
> I was gonna give Krzyzowiec as an example of Polish crazy nationalist
> (though he makes the standard neo nazi excuses that he is only a
> "patriot" and "just proud of his heritage" or whatever) but Piotrus
> beat me to it. I've also been seeing an account from "GorliwyPolak"
> but I have my suspicions that that may be an agent provocateur account
> - right before GorliwyPolak there was GorliwyLitwin whose editing
> style was very reminiscent of Dr. Dan's (who's ideology seems to be
> trolling for trolling's sake).
>
> I agree that the idea of Nationalism is a continuum not a either/or
> type of thing. Some moderate amount of nationalism is fine and
> commendable even. I mean, sure, when Poland plays Germany in football
> I cheer for Poland. But there's a lot of double standards on wiki
> here. German nationalists like Skapperod or Karasek basically want to
> rewrite the history of Polish cities and places to say that these are
> German and hint that they'll be German again some day. Poles just want
> the fact that Poland and Lithuania (and my family's actually from
> Lithuania) share a common history mentioned somewhere in the relevant
> article but Lithuanian nationalists like M.K and Lokyz try to purge
> any mentionining of Polishness and write articles in support of
> Lithuanian extremist organizations (in addition to being simply plain
> assholes). Germans want articles on Polish cities to be named in
> German, Poles want articles on Lithuanian cities to just mention
> somewhere that Lithuanian Poles or Polish Lithuanians or mixed breeds
> lived/live there at some point. It's a matter of degree but somehow
> opposing the first and supporting the second makes you a Polish
> nationalist.
>
> Radek
>
>
> 2009/6/14 Digwuren <digwuren@gmail.com>:
>> On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 19:48, Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> My impression was that any mention of German war crimes Germany
>>> related facts(for example Herero Genocide) was categorised as
>>> expression 'Polish nationalism'.
>>
>> Nationalism is a fuzzy concept. =A0 It covers potentially a wide field of
>> distinguishable meanings. =A0Unfortunately, many people don't realise th=
is,
>> and tend to treat different forms of nationalism as though they were
>> equivalent. =A0Some people, to the contrary, deliberately conflate diffe=
rent
>> forms of nationalism.
>>
>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=3DTalk:2008_South_Ossetia_war=
&diff=3Dprev&oldid=3D296049496>
>> is an example of FeelSunny attempting to ascribe an extreme form of
>> nationalism to his opponents. =A0People with such extreme beliefs are ra=
re,
>> but they can form the bulk of the stereotypes.
>> --
>> Andres Soolo
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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