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Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:42:39 +0200
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From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview: Sorry Tymek but you are just incorrect. I myself were
	able to see a wall sized map from interwar era with Poland, East
	Prussia, Silesia, up to original Ostsiedlung area-all with Polish names.
	So to claim they didn't exist before 1945 is not true. [...] 
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Subject: Re: [WPM] Polish Committee for Settling of Place Names
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	Content preview:  Sorry Tymek but you are just incorrect. I myself were
	able to see a wall sized map from interwar era with Poland, East
	Prussia, Silesia, up to original Ostsiedlung area-all with Polish names.
	So to claim they didn't exist before 1945 is not true. [...] 
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Sorry Tymek but you are just incorrect. I myself were able to see a wall
sized map from interwar era with Poland, East Prussia, Silesia, up to
original Ostsiedlung area-all with Polish names. So to claim they didn't
exist before 1945 is not true.

The settlements in East Prussia were usually founded on destroyed locations
of Old Prussian villages or fortifications, so they too had previous names.

Also it is rather improper to speak of "Germans" in that era-a more fitting
name would be Germanic settlers, althought still many were non-Germanic as
well.

2009/8/24 piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>

> Virtually all names of Eastern Prussia were not Polish, they were either
> ancient Prussian or German, as the Germans founded many cities there, and we
> do not have to hide it. Same in Sudety, this area was uninhabited until the
> 13th century, and only then German settlers founded several towns there,
> such as Jelenia Gora.
>
> Western Pomerania and lands north of the Sudety are a different thing, as
> these lands had Slavic villages, whose names were Germanized. Interestingly,
> most place names in Brandenburg and Mecklenburg are Slavic, too, with
> ancient Slavic communities reaching as far west as Hamburg.
>
> Tymek
>
> --- On *Mon, 8/24/09, Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [WPM] Polish Committee for Settling of Place Names
> To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 1:58 PM
>
>
> "Many places did not have Polish names, and they had to find completely new
> ones."
>
> It's the other way around actually-almost all had Polish or Slavic names
> since that was Polish and Slavic territory before. East Prussia was most
> problematic-but they were Old Prussian names as most settlements were in
> place of original villages or settlements destroyed by Teutonic Knights.
>
> 2009/8/24 piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com<http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
> >
>
>>   Interesting article. Polish historians had many problems, especially in
>> East Prussia and Lower Silesia. Many places did not have Polish names, and
>> they had to find completely new ones. Zgorzelec for a while was called
>> Zgorzelice, until 1948.
>>
>> Tymek
>>
>> --- On *Sun, 8/23/09, Piotr Konieczny <piokon@post.pl>* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Piotr Konieczny <piokon@post.pl>
>> Subject: [WPM] Polish Committee for Settling of Place Names
>> To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net<http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=folks@wikipedometer.net>
>> >
>> Date: Sunday, August 23, 2009, 2:15 PM
>>
>>
>> How's the article on the Nazi commission for expelled coming?
>>
>> In the meantime, German editor HerkusMonte has created
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Committee_for_Settling_of_Place_Names
>> It is also nominated for DYK
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Did_you_know#Polish_Committee_for_Settling_of_Place_Names
>>
>> At first glance I don't see any obvious propaganda, but our experts on
>> the Polish-German history may want to take a closer look at it.
>>
>> Herkus is quite active recently, he has done a lot of edits to
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Prussian_plebiscite
>> created a series of bios, some of them of Polish historians and writers,
>> and added a lot of German names to geographical places in Regained
>> Territories (not that I have any problem with that).
>>
>> --
>> Piotr Konieczny
>>
>> "The problem about Wikipedia is, that it just works in reality, not in
>> theory."
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
>> folks@wikipedometer.net<http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=folks@wikipedometer.net>
>> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>>
>>
>>
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Sorry Tymek but you are just incorrect. I myself were able to see a wall si=
zed map from interwar era with Poland, East Prussia, Silesia, up to origina=
l Ostsiedlung area-all with Polish names. So to claim they didn&#39;t exist=
 before 1945 is not true.<br>
<br>The settlements in East Prussia were usually founded on destroyed locat=
ions of Old Prussian villages or fortifications, so they too had previous n=
ames.<br><br>Also it is rather improper to speak of &quot;Germans&quot; in =
that era-a more fitting name would be Germanic settlers, althought still ma=
ny were non-Germanic as well.<br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2009/8/24 piotr micula <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:basiaipiotr@yahoo.com">basiaipiotr@yahoo.com</a>&gt;</sp=
an><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rg=
b(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0"><tbody><tr><td styl=
e=3D"font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font=
-weight: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-size-adjus=
t: inherit; font-stretch: inherit;" valign=3D"top">
<div>Virtually all names of Eastern Prussia were not Polish, they were eith=
er ancient Prussian or German, as the Germans founded many cities there, an=
d we do not have to hide it. Same in Sudety, this area was uninhabited unti=
l the 13th century, and only then German settlers founded several towns the=
re, such as Jelenia Gora. </div>

<div>=A0</div>
<div>Western Pomerania and lands north of the Sudety are a different thing,=
 as these lands had Slavic villages, whose names were Germanized. Interesti=
ngly, most place names in Brandenburg and Mecklenburg are Slavic, too, with=
 ancient Slavic communities reaching as far west as Hamburg. </div>

<div>=A0</div>
<div>Tymek<br><br>--- On <b>Mon, 8/24/09, Molobo Molobo <i>&lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:molobus@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">molobus@gmail.com</a>&gt;</i></b=
> wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); padding-left:=
 5px; margin-left: 5px;"><br>From: Molobo Molobo &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:molo=
bus@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">molobus@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re: =
[WPM] Polish Committee for Settling of Place Names<div class=3D"im">
<br>To: &quot;Wikipedia statistics&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipe=
dometer.net" target=3D"_blank">folks@wikipedometer.net</a>&gt;<br></div>Dat=
e: Monday, August 24, 2009, 1:58 PM<div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br><b=
r>

<div>&quot;Many places did not have Polish names, and they had to find comp=
letely new ones.&quot;<br><br>It&#39;s the other way around actually-almost=
 all had Polish or Slavic names since that was Polish and Slavic territory =
before. East Prussia was most problematic-but they were Old Prussian names =
as most settlements were in place of original villages or settlements destr=
oyed by Teutonic Knights.<br>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">2009/8/24 piotr micula <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dbasiaipiotr@yahoo.co=
m" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">basiaipiotr@yahoo.com</a>&gt;</span><=
br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"font-family: inherit; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-stretch:=
 inherit;" valign=3D"top">
<div>Interesting article. Polish historians had many problems, especially i=
n East Prussia and Lower Silesia. Many places did not have Polish names, an=
d they had to find completely new ones. Zgorzelec for a while was called Zg=
orzelice, until 1948.</div>

<div>=A0</div>
<div>Tymek<br><br>--- On <b>Sun, 8/23/09, Piotr Konieczny <i>&lt;piokon@pos=
t.pl&gt;</i></b> wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); padding-left:=
 5px; margin-left: 5px;"><br>From: Piotr Konieczny &lt;piokon@post.pl&gt;<b=
r>Subject: [WPM] Polish Committee for Settling of Place Names<br>To: &quot;=
Wikipedia statistics&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc=
/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">f=
olks@wikipedometer.net</a>&gt;<br>
Date: Sunday, August 23, 2009, 2:15 PM
<div>
<div></div>
<div><br><br>
<div>How&#39;s the article on the Nazi commission for expelled coming?<br><=
br>In the meantime, German editor HerkusMonte has created<br><a href=3D"htt=
p://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Committee_for_Settling_of_Place_Names" rel=
=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Committ=
ee_for_Settling_of_Place_Names</a><br>
It is also nominated for DYK<br><a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tem=
plate_talk:Did_you_know#Polish_Committee_for_Settling_of_Place_Names" rel=
=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:=
Did_you_know#Polish_Committee_for_Settling_of_Place_Names</a><br>
<br>At first glance I don&#39;t see any obvious propaganda, but our experts=
 on <br>the Polish-German history may want to take a closer look at it.<br>=
<br>Herkus is quite active recently, he has done a lot of edits to<br><a hr=
ef=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Prussian_plebiscite" rel=3D"nofollo=
w" target=3D"_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Prussian_plebiscite<=
/a><br>
created a series of bios, some of them of Polish historians and writers, <b=
r>and added a lot of German names to geographical places in Regained <br>Te=
rritories (not that I have any problem with that).<br><br>-- <br>Piotr Koni=
eczny<br>
<br>&quot;The problem about Wikipedia is, that it just works in reality, no=
t in <br>theory.&quot;<br><br>_____________________________________________=
__<br>Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br><a href=3D"http://us.mc328.ma=
il.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" rel=3D"nofollow" targ=
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<a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" rel=3D"=
nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listin=
fo/folks</a><br></div></div></div></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table><b=
r>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>Wikipedia statistics=
 discussion list<br><a href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=
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<div>_______________________________________________<br>Wikipedia statistic=
s discussion list<br><a href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?t=
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