X-From_: folks-bounces@wikipedometer.net Sun May  3 18:20:10 2009
Return-Path: <folks-bounces@wikipedometer.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <112273.55572.qm@web33308.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <112273.55572.qm@web33308.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 19:19:53 +0300
Message-ID: <f826636f0905030919r73cde1dci52ce41bba5fe42ed@mail.gmail.com>
From: Dorin Cheptea <dorin.cheptea@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
X-Spam_score: 1.0
X-Spam_score_int: 10
X-Spam_bar: +
X-Spam_report: Spam detection software,
	running on the system "pakkun.mirky.net", has
	identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message
	has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or
	label similar future email.  If you have any questions, see
	the administrator of that system for details.
	Content preview:  I have known Illythr almost since my day one in WP.
	Together with Serhio we three are basically the only regular WP editors
	from Moldova. Part of the reason for this is that English is tought
	very
	poorly in the country. Many of the people who do speak it well are
	abroad and/or busy with education/work/etc, and can not find regular
	time, internet access, and interest in a wider range of issues to
	contribute to WP. (Key expression here is "regularity".) Also time is a
	financial issue for many youth: spending time on WP, they can not earn
	money to sustain themselves. There are many people who just come and go,
	making less than a dosen edits. Yet many more only edit anonymously. As
	a result it was impossible to built a community. Many more editors from
	Moldova exist in the Romanian, French and Russian WP than in the English
	one. [...] 
	Content analysis details:   (1.0 points, 5.0 required)
	pts rule name              description
	---- ----------------------
	--------------------------------------------------
	-2.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1%
	[score: 0.0000]
	0.0 HTML_MESSAGE           BODY: HTML included in message
	1.4 HTML_10_20             BODY: Message is 10% to 20% HTML
	1.7 DNS_FROM_RFC_POST      RBL: Envelope sender in
	postmaster.rfc-ignorant.org
	0.6 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7-deb (2006-10-05) on 
	pakkun.mirky.net
X-Spam-Level: *
X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_05,
	DNS_FROM_RFC_POST,HTML_10_20,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no 
	version=3.1.7-deb
Subject: Re: [WPM] Illythr
X-BeenThere: folks@wikipedometer.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
List-Id: Wikipedia statistics <folks.wikipedometer.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks>,
	<mailto:folks-request@wikipedometer.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Post: <mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net>
List-Help: <mailto:folks-request@wikipedometer.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks>,
	<mailto:folks-request@wikipedometer.net?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3474179425931474204=="
Mime-version: 1.0
Sender: folks-bounces@wikipedometer.net
Errors-To: folks-bounces@wikipedometer.net
X-Spam_score: 1.0
X-Spam_score_int: 10
X-Spam_bar: +
X-Spam_report: Spam detection software, running on the system "pakkun.mirky.net", has
	identified this incoming email as possible spam.  The original message
	has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label
	similar future email.  If you have any questions, see
	the administrator of that system for details.
	Content preview:  I have known Illythr almost since my day one in WP.
	Together with Serhio we three are basically the only regular WP editors
	from Moldova. Part of the reason for this is that English is tought very
	poorly in the country. Many of the people who do speak it well are
	abroad and/or busy with education/work/etc, and can not find regular
	time, internet access, and interest in a wider range of issues to
	contribute to WP. (Key expression here is "regularity".) Also time is a
	financial issue for many youth: spending time on WP, they can not earn
	money to sustain themselves. There are many people who just come and go,
	making less than a dosen edits. Yet many more only edit anonymously. As
	a result it was impossible to built a community. Many more editors from
	Moldova exist in the Romanian, French and Russian WP than in the English
	one. [...] 
	Content analysis details:   (1.0 points, 5.0 required)
	pts rule name              description
	---- ---------------------- --------------------------------------------------
	-2.6 BAYES_00               BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1%
	[score: 0.0051]
	0.0 HTML_MESSAGE           BODY: HTML included in message
	1.4 HTML_10_20             BODY: Message is 10% to 20% HTML
	1.7 DNS_FROM_RFC_POST      RBL: Envelope sender in
	postmaster.rfc-ignorant.org
	0.6 AWL                    AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list

--===============3474179425931474204==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364d236973c2640469046add

--0016364d236973c2640469046add
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have known Illythr almost since my day one in WP. Together with Serhio
we three are basically the only regular WP editors from Moldova. Part of th=
e
reason for this is that English is tought very poorly in the country. Many
of the people who do speak it well are abroad and/or busy with
education/work/etc, and can not find regular time, internet access, and
interest in a wider range of issues to contribute to WP. (Key expression
here is "regularity".) Also time is a financial issue for many youth:
spending time on WP, they can not earn money to sustain themselves. There
are many people who just come and go, making less than a dosen edits. Yet
many more only edit anonymously. As a result it was impossible to built a
community. Many more editors from Moldova exist in the Romanian, French and
Russian WP than in the English one.

Moldopodo (now permanently banned) was an editor from my home city (I
actually know his real name, and I believe I met him once or twice when we
were children). He works for a small IT company that services medium size
businesses. He had a strong pro-Soviet irredentist POV and a very instable
temper (which i think showed off in high school and after). He went so much
in conflict with Fut. Perf. for reasons that no sane person would ever
understand, and behaved so rude, that his undoing was awaiting him.

Xasha (topic banned from some sensitive issues) is an editor from Chi=BAin=
=E3u,
working in IT. He stems from a mixed language background, similar to Serhio=
,
but unlike Serhio who avoids politics at all, is die hard pro-Soviet.

EvilAlex (now permanently banned) was an editor from Tighina/Bender, also
from mixed language background. He lived in Ireland since graduating high
school, while his parents remained in Tighina. He was very anti-Smirnov and
edited almost exclusively Transnistria-related articles. He was banned afte=
r
the Transnistria ArbCom case in order to ballance the ban of pro-Smirnov
Mauco and Mark us street.

What I know about Illythr is that he is originally from Chi=BAin=E3u, speak=
s
very good English and German, understands at medium level Romanian (but doe=
s
not speak it at all). He is currently outside Moldova, I suspect in
California, where I believe he pursues PhD, or perhaps just finished it. I
don't know in what area, he did not tell me anything. I suspect science or
engeneering, but I don't think CS. He told me he is a Jew. I believe his
grandfather was the one that settled in Moldova, perhaps while his parents
were children. Possibly his grandfather was an officer in the Soviet Army.
Also, I can not explain his way to deep interest in the Continuation War
other than having a relative there at the time. He is pro-Soviet. To use hi=
s
explanation, he views the adjective "Soviet" as having the same weight as
"American", i.e. he sees it as a community of people from different
backgrounds building a new country rather than anything ideological or
slightly colonial. He is not in touch with news and events in Moldova in
real time. When Chirtoac=E3 was elected mayor of Chi=BAin=E3u in 2007, he l=
earned
it from WP talk and had to google to find out more info even who were the
candidates. He is around 30 years old (he remembers vividly some things
about 1989 but claimed he "was to young to get involved"). He is
pro-perestroika (apparently some of his relatives were involved in some
pro-perestroika movement in 1986-87), but against 1989 developments which h=
e
brands nationalist.

Illythr is very civilized. I can also vouch for his honesty in
all circumstances. He is intelligent, eager to help if asked, has good
humour, would never reject a hand towards compromize. He can be persuaded
about something he is not well-informed about, but he would always like to
retain some degree of independently making his mind, so never push him all
the way. But he is unchanged in not seeing evil behind the Soviet
regime. When you say Soviet, he imagins Hruschchev, Brezhnev, industrial
growth, perestroika, rarely Stalin, Gulag, KGB, or human rights.

There are a number of issues in Moldova related articles that Illythr
pushed pro-Soviet. However, part of the reason they are so is that I did no=
t
document (with citations, sources, images) those istances well. It is more
of a challenge for me personally, since even Cristian would have to be
pointed out to some details of those issues (e.g. certain choice of
adjectives, tone, sources, and description). The major problem is that at
first I did not have enough sources, while now I do not have the human
resourse to use them properly in WP. Tighina vs Bendery is juct the tip of
the iceberg, but this example is very good as it indicates the degree of th=
e
problems: clear POV problem, but not something one has to undo immediately.

The presence of both Illythr and me as regular WP editors is a sort of chec=
k
and balance: none of us is able to push it too much. In the long run this i=
s
quite helpful, because it reveals problems with edits at an earlier stage,
and we are able to fix them. It annoyed me that Illythr byfriended Xasha fo=
r
a while, but now I see they do not collaborate anymore.
BTW, Illythr thinks of himself as a wikignome. And if you deal with
non-Soviet topics, he indeed is.

Dorin
2009/5/2 Christian Suciu <christiansuciu@yahoo.com>

>   Dorin and I have experience with this guy. He seems to be a Russian Jew
> from Chisinau, possibly living in California now. We can't really figure =
him
> out for sure, though. He's mildly pro-Soviet in outlook, but compared to =
the
> radicals, definitely someone we can cooperate with. Ever since Xasha and
> Moldopodo were banned, we've more or less been able to impose our own
> Romanian-oriented view of Moldovan history (supported by reliable sources=
,
> of course), with relatively little opposition by Illythr. He did lead to
> Olahus being blocked for a while, but that was probably deserved.
> Dorin has even more experience with Illythr, which I'm sure he can share
> with us. The only big remaining problem we have is that the Moldovan city=
 of
> Tighina, occupied by Transnistria, is at the Russian name of [[Bendery]],
> but that's something Mikkalai imposed, disregarding a failed move request
> from Tighina.
>
> By the way, in trying to find out sockpuppets, to what extent have you
> gentlemen looked at English ability? It's a little surprising how many of
> these people know flawless English. Irpen, Ghirlandajo, Offliner, Illyhtr=
 -
> they rarely make mistakes. Interesting, and rather unusual for Russia, I'=
d
> imagine.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> folks@wikipedometer.net
> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>
>

--0016364d236973c2640469046add
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-2
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div>I have known Illythr almost since my day one in WP.=A0Together with Se=
rhio we=A0three are basically the only regular WP editors from Moldova. Par=
t of the reason for this is that English is tought very poorly in the count=
ry. Many of the people who do speak it well are abroad and/or busy with edu=
cation/work/etc, and can not find regular time, internet access, and intere=
st in a wider range of issues=A0to contribute to WP. (Key expression here i=
s &quot;regularity&quot;.) Also time is=A0a financial issue for=A0many yout=
h: spending time on WP, they can not earn money to sustain themselves. Ther=
e are many people who just come and go,=A0making less than a dosen edits. Y=
et many more only edit anonymously. As a result it was impossible to built =
a community. Many more editors from Moldova exist in the Romanian, French a=
nd Russian WP than in the English one.</div>

<div>=A0</div>
<div>Moldopodo (now permanently banned) was an editor from my home city (I =
actually know his real name, and I believe I met him once or twice when we =
were children). He works for a small IT company that services medium size b=
usinesses. He had a strong pro-Soviet irredentist POV and a very instable t=
emper (which i think showed off in high school=A0and after). He went so muc=
h in conflict with Fut. Perf. for reasons that no sane person would ever un=
derstand, and behaved so rude,=A0that his undoing was awaiting him.</div>

<div>=A0</div>
<div>Xasha (topic banned from some sensitive issues) is an editor from Chi=
=BAin=E3u, working in IT. He stems from a mixed language background, simila=
r to Serhio, but unlike Serhio who avoids politics at all, is die hard pro-=
Soviet.</div>

<div>=A0</div>
<div>EvilAlex (now permanently banned) was an editor from Tighina/Bender, a=
lso from mixed language background. He lived in Ireland since graduating hi=
gh school, while his parents remained in Tighina. He was very anti-Smirnov =
and edited almost exclusively Transnistria-related articles. He was banned =
after the Transnistria ArbCom case in order to ballance the ban of pro-Smir=
nov Mauco and Mark us street.</div>

<div>=A0</div>
<div>What I know about Illythr is that he is originally from=A0Chi=BAin=E3u=
, speaks very good English and German,=A0understands at medium level Romani=
an (but does not speak it at all). He is currently outside Moldova, I suspe=
ct in California, where I believe he pursues PhD, or perhaps just finished =
it. I don&#39;t know in what area, he did not tell me anything. I suspect s=
cience or engeneering, but I don&#39;t think CS. He told me he is a Jew. I =
believe his grandfather was the one that settled in Moldova, perhaps while =
his parents were children. Possibly his grandfather was an officer in the S=
oviet Army. Also, I can not explain his way to deep interest in the Continu=
ation War other than having a relative there at the time. He is pro-Soviet.=
 To use his explanation, he views the adjective &quot;Soviet&quot; as havin=
g the same weight as &quot;American&quot;, i.e. he sees it as a community o=
f people from different backgrounds building a new country rather than anyt=
hing ideological or slightly colonial. He is not in touch with news and eve=
nts in Moldova in real time. When Chirtoac=E3 was elected mayor of Chi=BAin=
=E3u in 2007, he learned it from WP talk and had to google to find out more=
 info even=A0who were=A0the candidates. He is around 30 years old (he remem=
bers vividly some things about 1989 but claimed he &quot;was to young to ge=
t involved&quot;). He is pro-perestroika (apparently some of his relatives =
were involved in some pro-perestroika movement in 1986-87), but against 198=
9 developments which he brands nationalist.</div>

<div>=A0</div>
<div>Illythr is very civilized. I can also vouch for his honesty=A0in all=
=A0circumstances. He is intelligent, eager to help if asked, has good humou=
r,=A0would never reject a hand towards compromize. He can be persuaded abou=
t something he is not well-informed about, but he would always like to reta=
in some degree of independently making his mind, so never push him all the =
way. But he is unchanged in not seeing evil behind the=A0Soviet regime.=A0W=
hen you say Soviet, he imagins Hruschchev, Brezhnev, industrial growth, per=
estroika,=A0rarely Stalin, Gulag, KGB, or human rights.=A0</div>

<div>=A0</div>
<div>There are a number of issues in Moldova related articles that=A0Illyth=
r pushed=A0pro-Soviet. However, part=A0of the reason they are so is that I =
did not document (with citations, sources, images)=A0those istances well. I=
t is more of a challenge for me personally, since even Cristian would have =
to be pointed out to some details of those issues (e.g. certain choice of a=
djectives, tone,=A0sources, and description).=A0The major problem is that a=
t first I did not have enough sources,=A0while now I do not have the human =
resourse to use them properly in WP. Tighina vs Bendery is juct the tip of =
the iceberg, but this example is very=A0good as it indicates the degree of =
the problems: clear POV problem, but not something one has to undo immediat=
ely. </div>

<div>=A0</div>
<div>The presence of both Illythr and me as regular WP editors is a sort of=
 check and balance: none of us is able to push it too much. In the long run=
=A0this is quite helpful, because it reveals problems with edits at an earl=
ier stage, and we are able to fix them. It annoyed me that Illythr byfriend=
ed Xasha for a while, but now I see they do=A0not=A0collaborate anymore.<br=
>
</div>
<div>BTW, Illythr thinks of himself as a wikignome. And if you deal with no=
n-Soviet topics, he indeed is.</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Dorin<br></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">2009/5/2 Christian Suciu <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:christiansuciu@yahoo.com">christiansuciu@yahoo.com</a>&gt;=
</span><br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<table border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top">Dorin and I have experience with this guy. He seems to b=
e a Russian Jew from Chisinau, possibly living in California now. We can&#3=
9;t really figure him out for sure, though. He&#39;s mildly pro-Soviet in o=
utlook, but compared to the radicals, definitely someone we can cooperate w=
ith. Ever since Xasha and Moldopodo were banned, we&#39;ve more or less bee=
n able to impose our own Romanian-oriented view of Moldovan history (suppor=
ted by reliable sources, of course), with relatively little opposition by I=
llythr. He did lead to Olahus being blocked for a while, but that was proba=
bly deserved.=20
<div><br></div>
<div>Dorin has even more experience with Illythr, which I&#39;m sure he can=
 share with us. The only big remaining problem we have is that the Moldovan=
 city of Tighina, occupied by Transnistria, is at the Russian name of [[Ben=
dery]], but that&#39;s something Mikkalai imposed, disregarding a failed mo=
ve request from Tighina.</div>

<div><br></div>
<div>By the way, in trying to find out sockpuppets, to what extent have you=
 gentlemen looked at English ability? It&#39;s a little surprising how many=
 of these people know flawless English. Irpen, Ghirlandajo, Offliner, Illyh=
tr - they rarely make mistakes. Interesting, and rather unusual for Russia,=
 I&#39;d imagine.</div>
</td></tr></tbody></table><br><br>_________________________________________=
______<br>Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br><a href=3D"mailto:folks@w=
ikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a><br><a href=3D"http://wikipedo=
meter.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D"_blank">http://wikipedo=
meter.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br>

--0016364d236973c2640469046add--


--===============3474179425931474204==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

_______________________________________________
Wikipedia statistics discussion list
folks@wikipedometer.net
http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks

--===============3474179425931474204==--


