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Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 01:24:00 +0300
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From: Dorin Cheptea <dorin.cheptea@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview: I should have bolded the lest sentence: *The effect is
	always that of antagonizing the society.* This culture of power, in
	force in Russia, Belarus, Moldova, Venezuela, Iran, Syria, etc IMO is
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Subject: Re: [WPM] Russia and Iran
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	Content preview:  I should have bolded the lest sentence: *The effect is
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	force in Russia, Belarus, Moldova, Venezuela, Iran, Syria, etc IMO is
	different from the culture of power in China, which is still based on an
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I should have bolded the lest sentence: *The effect is always that of
antagonizing the society.*

This culture of power, in force in Russia, Belarus, Moldova, Venezuela,
Iran, Syria, etc IMO is different from the culture of power in China, which
is still based on an ideological system that can not be contradicted
ideologically (but can be interpreted to suit you, even if contradictory to
the initial meaning), and where the communist *"democratic centralism" *rules.
In China, you have people on top ranked by number, for example:

1. Hu Jintao
2. Wu Bangguo
3. Wen Jiabao (therefore it is a diplomatic offence if you are more friendly
with him than with #1 and #2)
...
6. Xi Jinping
7. Li Keqiang
8. Li Changchun
...

Of course, Zhen Qinghong defied this ranking prior to 2008 (officially #9 he
was de facto #2), but such examples are extremely rare.

In the Chinese system, you only have as much power as allowed by the other
top ranking people. A similar situation existed in the Soviet Politburo.

----

China is indeed very interested in Russian Far East, and it is not excluded
that in 200-300 years it might claim all the land east of the Baikal Lake.
But Chinese know they have time working for them, as well as no personal
pressure for the leaders to deliver. One to two million Chinese are already
Russian citizens, some even with the name (on paper) Ivanov Ivan Ivanovich,
almost all of them are in Siberia, and particularly east of (and including)
Novosibirsk.

You see, *in most of these Shanghai Group-type meetings you have many
leaders (but not the Chinese) coming with an agenda*, with a short-term idea
they want to implement or promote now and need support from others. Opposing
all such non-sense ideas is cost-ineffective. It is more effective for the
west to just let these initiatives die on their own (which I see as one of
the reasons why USA, UK, etc do react to these meetings). As for the
Chinese, in their minds they have been the protectors of Central Asia for
2000 years, so they in their minds they are doing nothing more than
fulfilling their duty as civilizers, which includes necessity to understand
and solve petty regional disputes and grievances. For the Chinese,
Ahmadinejad is a wolf, scary barking wolf, but only a wolf, not a human,
nonetheless.

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<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>I should have bolded the lest sentence: <b>=
The effect is always that of antagonizing the society.</b></div><div>=A0</d=
iv><div>This culture of power, in force in Russia, Belarus, Moldova, Venezu=
ela, Iran, Syria, etc IMO is different from the culture of power in China, =
which is still based on an ideological system that can not be contradicted =
ideologically (but can be interpreted to suit you, even if contradictory to=
 the initial meaning), and where the communist <b>&quot;democratic centrali=
sm&quot; </b>rules. In China, you have people on top ranked by number, for =
example:=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>1. Hu Jintao</div><div>2. Wu Bangguo=A0</div><div>3. We=
n Jiabao (therefore it is a diplomatic offence if you are more friendly wit=
h him than with #1 and #2)</div><div>...</div><div>6. Xi Jinping</div><div>
7. Li Keqiang</div><div>8. Li Changchun</div><div>...</div><div><br></div><=
div>Of course, Zhen Qinghong defied this ranking prior to 2008 (officially =
#9 he was de facto #2), but such examples are extremely rare.=A0</div><div>
<br></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"-webkit-sans-serif"=
 size=3D"6"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 24px; line=
-height: 28px;"><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"arial" size=3D"3">=
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 13px; line-height: nor=
mal;">In the Chinese system, you only have as much power as allowed by the =
other top ranking people. A similar situation existed in the Soviet Politbu=
ro.</span></font></span></font></div>
<div><br></div><div>----</div><div><br></div><div>China is indeed very inte=
rested in Russian Far East, and it is not excluded that in 200-300 years it=
 might claim all the land east of the Baikal Lake. But Chinese know they ha=
ve time working for them, as well as no personal pressure for the leaders t=
o deliver. One to two million Chinese are already Russian citizens, some ev=
en with the name (on paper) Ivanov Ivan Ivanovich, almost all of them are i=
n Siberia, and particularly east of (and including) Novosibirsk.=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>You see, <b>in most of these Shanghai Group-type meetin=
gs you have many leaders (but not the Chinese) coming with an agenda</b>, w=
ith a short-term idea they want to implement or promote now and need suppor=
t from others. Opposing all such non-sense ideas is cost-ineffective. It is=
 more effective for the west to just let these initiatives die on their own=
 (which I see as one of the reasons why USA, UK, etc do react to these meet=
ings). As for the Chinese, in their minds they have been the protectors of =
Central Asia for 2000 years, so they in their minds they are doing nothing =
more than fulfilling their duty as civilizers, which includes necessity to =
understand and solve petty regional disputes and grievances. For the Chines=
e, Ahmadinejad is a wolf, scary barking wolf, but only a wolf, not a human,=
 nonetheless. =A0=A0</div>
</div>

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