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Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 22:03:30 +0200
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From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview:  I had contact with Ostap, seemed a user with good
	intention, how is the state of his ability to keep cool on wiki ?
	Besides good intentions we need people who won't put the mailing list
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Subject: Re: [WPM] More cabal theory
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I had contact with Ostap, seemed a user with good intention, how is the
state of his ability to keep cool on wiki ? Besides good intentions we need
people who won't put the mailing list into the open.

2009/6/8 piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>

>   User Ostap would be good and useful here. He is Ukrainian, so one more
> nation would be included.
> Tymek
>
> --- On *Mon, 6/8/09, Dorin Cheptea <dorin.cheptea@gmail.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Dorin Cheptea <dorin.cheptea@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [WPM] More cabal theory
> To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 9:58 AM
>
>
>
>  2009/6/8 Miacek and his crime-fighting dog <miacek08@googlemail.com<http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=miacek08@googlemail.com>
> >
>
>> Shafarevich has done great job when treating socialism's historical
>> traces and background (see ''The Socialist Phenomenon''). He turned a
>> die-hard Russian chauvinist in early 1990s, actually joining the
>> National Salvation Front which also included hardline Stalinists in
>> addition to more 'moderate' nationalists and commies. I imagine
>> Shafarevich still being rather uncomfortable with such bedfellow.
>>
>> Miacek.
>>
>
> He had the same ideas during the hight of the Soviet system, when he was a
> member of the Sakharov's group. He was sort of a "white raven" among them.
> He was anti-Soviet but part of the reason was that in his mind the Soviets
> were anti-Russian. As for activity after 1990, I personally have to say one
> thing: intelligent people have to know when to slow down and let new people
> take the lead. If you want to be in the spotlight when you are 30, when you
> are 50, and when you are 70 as well, then your egocentrism has blinded your
> common sense, and you look ridiculous. Having to "endure" hardline
> Stalinists is punishement for luck of common sense.
>
>
>  > If we want to have a real ''Eastern European'' cabal, then we have to
> > recruit more members with different ethnic background. An alliance of
> > Estonian-Romanian-Polish 'cabals' plus a few other _indivihduals_, me
> > included, is not enough yet to represent the Eastern Europe ;-)
>
>  1) we want to have an anti-team USSR cabal. Currently that's the main
> problem eastern Europeans have, but the two things are not identical. We can
> subsequently use our experience with Soviet topics for other areas if we
> find common goals, I agree, but without damage to the main issue.
> 2) Right now, it's mostly Polish-Estonian :) Two Romanians, one Latvian,
> one Ukrainian, one Russian means that from these nations we luck enough
> WP-ians (well, from Russia, it's a different story). We discussed one Swede
> at some point, what was the conclusion? Now, "Eastern Europeans" means we
> have to have both Serbs and Croations, Hungarian and Slovaks, as well as
> East Germans and Lithuanians. I guess you see the problem.
> 3) The reason we are slow in getting more "members" is that we want to be
> sure of the safety, that each of us is responsible for not suggesting even
> indirectly the possibility that this discussion forum exists. The reason is
> that, albeit we don't plan attacks here, as team USSR would think we do, we
> do exchange information that helps each of us individually, and ultimately
> our collaboration on WP gains. So, you see, we need this. Thus, we need 100%
> safety. And the danger to safety can come not from one of us suddenly
> turning Soviet informer (Soviets won't buy any of us after the damage we did
> to them), but from one of us becoming uncomfortable on some national issue
> with another one, and considering that issue more important for him than
> combating team USSR, and slip a word or two in order to annoy that editor.
>
> Dorin
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> folks@wikipedometer.net<http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=folks@wikipedometer.net>
> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
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I had contact with Ostap, seemed a user with good intention, how is the sta=
te of his ability to keep cool on wiki ? Besides good intentions we need pe=
ople who won&#39;t put the mailing list into the open.<br><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">2009/6/8 piotr micula <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:basiaipiotr@yahoo.com">basiaipiotr@yahoo.com</a>&gt;</span><b=
r>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top">
<div>User Ostap would be good and useful here. He is Ukrainian, so one more=
 nation would be included.</div>
<div>Tymek<br><br>--- On <b>Mon, 6/8/09, Dorin Cheptea <i>&lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:dorin.cheptea@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">dorin.cheptea@gmail.com</a>=
&gt;</i></b> wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid"><br>From: Dorin Cheptea &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dorin.c=
heptea@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">dorin.cheptea@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>Subj=
ect: Re: [WPM] More cabal theory<br>
To: &quot;Wikipedia statistics&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedome=
ter.net" target=3D"_blank">folks@wikipedometer.net</a>&gt;<br>Date: Monday,=
 June 8, 2009, 9:58 AM<br><br>
<div><br><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"im">2009/6/8 Miacek and his crime-fighting dog <span dir=3D"l=
tr">&lt;<a href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dmiacek08@=
googlemail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow">miacek08@googlemail.com<=
/a>&gt;</span><br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Shafarevich has done great job w=
hen treating socialism&#39;s historical<br>traces and background (see &#39;=
&#39;The Socialist Phenomenon&#39;&#39;). He turned a<br>
die-hard Russian chauvinist in early 1990s, actually joining the<br>Nationa=
l Salvation Front which also included hardline Stalinists in<br>addition to=
 more &#39;moderate&#39; nationalists and commies. I imagine<br>Shafarevich=
 still being rather uncomfortable with such bedfellow.<br>
<font color=3D"#888888"><br>Miacek.<br></font>
<div></div></blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>He had the same ideas during the hight of the Soviet system, when he w=
as a member of the Sakharov&#39;s group. He was sort of a &quot;white raven=
&quot; among them. He was anti-Soviet but part of the reason was that in hi=
s mind the Soviets were anti-Russian. As for activity after 1990, I persona=
lly have to say one thing: intelligent people have to know when to slow dow=
n and let new people take the lead. If you want to be in the spotlight when=
 you are 30, when you are 50, and when you are 70 as well, then your egocen=
trism has blinded your common sense, and you look ridiculous. Having to &qu=
ot;endure&quot; hardline Stalinists is punishement for luck of common sense=
.</div>

<div><br></div>
<div><br></div></div>
<div class=3D"im">
<div><span style=3D"BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse">&gt; If we want to have a re=
al &#39;&#39;Eastern European&#39;&#39; cabal, then we have to<br>&gt; recr=
uit more members with different ethnic background. An alliance of<br>&gt; E=
stonian-Romanian-Polish &#39;cabals&#39; plus a few other _indivihduals_, m=
e<br>
&gt; included, is not enough yet to represent the Eastern Europe ;-)</span>=
</div>
<div><span style=3D"BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse"><br></span></div></div>
<div class=3D"im">
<div><span style=3D"BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse">1) we want to have an anti-t=
eam USSR cabal. Currently that&#39;s the main problem eastern Europeans hav=
e, but the two things are not identical. We can subsequently use our experi=
ence with Soviet topics for other areas if we find common goals, I agree, b=
ut without damage to the main issue.</span></div>

<div><span style=3D"BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse">2) Right now, it&#39;s mostl=
y Polish-Estonian :) Two Romanians, one Latvian, one Ukrainian, one Russian=
 means that from these nations we luck enough WP-ians (well, from Russia, i=
t&#39;s a different story). We discussed one Swede at some point, what was =
the conclusion? Now, &quot;Eastern Europeans&quot; means we have to have bo=
th Serbs and Croations, Hungarian and Slovaks, as well as East Germans and =
Lithuanians. I guess you see the problem.</span></div>

<div><span style=3D"BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse">3) The reason we are slow in=
 getting more &quot;members&quot; is that we want to be sure of the safety,=
 that each of us is responsible for not suggesting even indirectly the poss=
ibility that this discussion forum exists. The reason is that, albeit we do=
n&#39;t plan attacks here, as team USSR would think we do, we do exchange i=
nformation that helps each of us individually, and ultimately our collabora=
tion on WP gains. So, you see, we need this. Thus, we need 100% safety. And=
 the danger to safety can come not from one of us suddenly turning Soviet i=
nformer (Soviets won&#39;t buy any of us after the damage we did to them), =
but from one of us becoming uncomfortable on some national issue with anoth=
er one, and considering that issue more important for him than combating te=
am USSR, and slip a word or two in order to annoy that editor.=A0</span></d=
iv>

<div><span style=3D"BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse"><br></span></div>
<div><span style=3D"BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse">Dorin</span></div></div></di=
v></div><br>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----=20
<div class=3D"im"><br><br>
<div>_______________________________________________<br>Wikipedia statistic=
s discussion list<br><a href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?t=
o=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" target=3D"_blank">folks@wikipedometer.net</a><=
br>
<a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=
=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br>=
</div></div></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table><br><br>________________=
_______________________________<br>
Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br><a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedomet=
er.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a><br><a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/=
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cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br>

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