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Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:37:39 +0200
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From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview:  I will make a partial rewrite of the article using
	sources later today after I finish the Oberlander article. Note the
	usual suspects have arrived to push a pro-German version. Also
	Skapperod is distorting Steinbach article as usual. [...] 
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I will make a partial rewrite of the article using sources later today afte=
r
I finish the Oberlander article.
Note the usual suspects have arrived to push a pro-German version. Also
Skapperod is distorting Steinbach article as usual.

W dniu 25 sierpnia 2009 01:58 u=BFytkownik Molobo Molobo
<molobus@gmail.com>napisa=B3:

> By Jan Miodek:
>
> http://www.ifp.uni.wroc.pl/zasoby/kp/Rospond/wypow.htm
> * W roku 1945 zacz=B1=B3 si=EA najintesywniejszy okres dzia=B3alno=B6ci
> naukowo-spo=B3ecznej Stanis=B3awa Rosponda. Najpierw bierze On udzia=B3 w=
 akcji
> popularyzacyjno-odczytowej profesor=F3w Uniwersytetu Jagiello=F1skiego. O=
bje=BFd=BFa
> miasta g=F3rno=B6l=B1skie i opowiada ich mieszka=F1com o odwiecznej polsk=
o=B6ci =A6l=B1ska
> w =B6wietle nazewnictwa geograficznego. Jesieni=B1 - do=B3=B1cza do pioni=
erskiej
> grupy polskich uczonych organizuj=B1cych szkolnictwo wy=BFsze w odzyskany=
m
> Wroc=B3awiu. Tu tworzy j=EAzykoznawcz=B1 polonistyk=EA. W tym czasie zost=
aje tak=BFe
> cz=B3onkiem Komisji Ustalania Nazw Miejscowo=B6ci przy =F3wczesnym Minist=
erstwie
> Administracji Publicznej. Ukoronowaniem Jego dzia=B3alno=B6ci w tym zakre=
sie
> jest S=B3ownik nazw geograficznych Polski Zachodniej i P=F3=B3nocnej, cz.=
 1-2,
> Wroc=B3aw 1951. Z wynikami prac nad przywracaniem polskiego nazewnictwa n=
a
> Ziemiach Odzyskanych dzieli=B3 si=EA od pierwszych miesi=EAcy po wyzwolen=
iu
> tak=BFe z Czytelnikami "Pioniera" i "S=B3owa Polskiego"*
>
> Germanization of Polish names under German Empire and Nazi Germany should
> be easy to find.
>
> http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanizacja_nazw_w_Prusach
>
> And
> http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanizacja#cite_note-17
> Najwi=EAksze nasilenie tych zmian mia=B3o miejsce podczas akcji Kulturkam=
pf<http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kulturkampf>oraz w okresie III Rzeszy. W 19=
36 r. kiedy w rejencji opolskiej zmieniono
> 1088 nazw miejscowo=B6ci, a w nast=EApnym roku przemianowano dodatkowo 16=
0 wsi
> so=B3eckich, przysi=F3=B3k=F3w i osiedli. W rejencjach wroc=B3awskiej i l=
egnickiej -
> gdzie nasilenie przypad=B3o na lata 1937 - 1938 przemianowano 359 nazw
> miejscowo=B6ci, a w legnickiej 178 [18]<http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germ=
anizacja#cite_note-17>
> .
>
> Interesting this information above is sourced and could be used in
> background section as example :)
>
> 2009/8/25 Piotr Konieczny <piokon@post.pl>:
>
> > There seem to be some propaganda pushing going in the article. Molobo
> > was correct that the background section pointedly did not mention
> > anything about issues such as Polish history or existing Polish
> > minorities (and hence, Polish names) for the Regained Territories. HM
> > seems to be rather unhappy that I dared to add such information, and
> > unfortunately I am missing sources for that, so I'd like to ask
> > interested editors to try to expand this article with sources (it will
> > be DYKed soon and it would be a shame if the DYKed version was the one
> > that focuses on how Poles expelled Germans and renamed their lands...).
> >
> > And yes, I am fully aware that this region SHARES history between Polan=
d
> > and Germany. The key point is SHARED, and please remember that. As Tyme=
k
> > points out, not all settlements can be traced to Polish times, but ther=
e
> > is no denying that many can.
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_for_Settling_of_Place_Names
> >
> >
> > --
> > Piotr Konieczny
> >
> > "The problem about Wikipedia is, that it just works in reality, not in
> > theory."
> >
> > Molobo Molobo wrote:
> >> Oh I wanted to report this as propaganda to folks here.
> >>
> >> Tonight I am still a bit tired from the weekend-few issues-the article
> >> avoids mentioning background of the situation, that several Polish nam=
es
> >> have been previously changed to German ones by German officials in
> >> German Empire, and Nazi Germany. The commissions work has also been to
> >> reverse this. Herkus of course is not interested in mentioning that. T=
he
> >> article barely mentions that all the work was in regards to de-facto
> >> Polish territories, and besides officially changed names the commissio=
n
> >> was also trying to restore names from before Germanization.
> >> Polish version mentions that the Commission restored or introduced
> >> 32.000 names for settlements and 3 geographic names.
> >>
> >> http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komisja_Ustalania_Nazw_Miejscowo%C5%9Bci
> >>
> >>
> >> 2009/8/23 Piotr Konieczny <piokon@post.pl>
> >>
> >>     How's the article on the Nazi commission for expelled coming?
> >>
> >>     In the meantime, German editor HerkusMonte has created
> >>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Committee_for_Settling_of_Place_Names
> >>     It is also nominated for DYK
> >>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Did_you_know#Polish_Committee_=
for_Settling_of_Place_Names
> >>
> >>     At first glance I don't see any obvious propaganda, but our expert=
s
> on
> >>     the Polish-German history may want to take a closer look at it.
> >>
> >>     Herkus is quite active recently, he has done a lot of edits to
> >>     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Prussian_plebiscite
> >>     created a series of bios, some of them of Polish historians and
> writers,
> >>     and added a lot of German names to geographical places in Regained
> >>     Territories (not that I have any problem with that).
> >>
> >>     --
> >>     Piotr Konieczny
> >>
> >>     "The problem about Wikipedia is, that it just works in reality, no=
t
> in
> >>     theory."
> >>
> >>     _______________________________________________
> >>     Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> >>     folks@wikipedometer.net <mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net>
> >>     http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> >> folks@wikipedometer.net
> >> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> > folks@wikipedometer.net
> > http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
> >
>
>

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I will make a partial rewrite of the article using sources later today afte=
r I finish the Oberlander article.<br>Note the usual suspects have arrived =
to push a pro-German version. Also Skapperod is distorting Steinbach articl=
e as usual.<br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">W dniu 25 sierpnia 2009 01:58 u=BFytkownik M=
olobo Molobo <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:molobus@gmail.com">mol=
obus@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> napisa=B3:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt =
0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
By Jan Miodek:<br><br><a href=3D"http://www.ifp.uni.wroc.pl/zasoby/kp/Rospo=
nd/wypow.htm" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ifp.uni.wroc.pl/zasoby/kp/Rospon=
d/wypow.htm</a><br> <i>&nbsp;W roku 1945 zacz=B1=B3 si=EA najintesywniejszy=
 okres dzia=B3alno=B6ci naukowo-spo=B3ecznej Stanis=B3awa Rosponda. Najpier=
w bierze On udzia=B3 w akcji popularyzacyjno-odczytowej profesor=F3w Uniwer=
sytetu Jagiello=F1skiego. Obje=BFd=BFa miasta g=F3rno=B6l=B1skie i opowiada=
 ich mieszka=F1com o odwiecznej polsko=B6ci =A6l=B1ska w =B6wietle nazewnic=
twa geograficznego. Jesieni=B1 - do=B3=B1cza do pionierskiej grupy polskich=
 uczonych organizuj=B1cych szkolnictwo wy=BFsze w odzyskanym Wroc=B3awiu. T=
u tworzy j=EAzykoznawcz=B1 polonistyk=EA. W tym czasie zostaje tak=BFe cz=
=B3onkiem Komisji Ustalania Nazw Miejscowo=B6ci przy =F3wczesnym Ministerst=
wie Administracji Publicznej.<b> Ukoronowaniem Jego dzia=B3alno=B6ci w tym =
zakresie jest S=B3ownik nazw geograficznych Polski Zachodniej i P=F3=B3nocn=
ej, cz. 1-2, Wroc=B3aw 1951. Z wynikami prac nad przywracaniem polskiego na=
zewnictwa na Ziemiach Odzyskanych </b>dzieli=B3 si=EA od pierwszych miesi=
=EAcy po wyzwoleniu tak=BFe z Czytelnikami &quot;Pioniera&quot; i &quot;S=
=B3owa Polskiego&quot;</i><br>

<br>Germanization of Polish names under German Empire and Nazi Germany shou=
ld be easy to find.<br><br><a href=3D"http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germaniz=
acja_nazw_w_Prusach" target=3D"_blank">http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germani=
zacja_nazw_w_Prusach</a><br>

<br>And<br><a href=3D"http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanizacja#cite_note-1=
7" target=3D"_blank">http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanizacja#cite_note-17=
</a><br> Najwi=EAksze nasilenie tych zmian mia=B3o miejsce podczas akcji <a=
 href=3D"http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kulturkampf" title=3D"Kulturkampf" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">Kulturkampf</a>
oraz w okresie III Rzeszy. W 1936 r. kiedy w rejencji opolskiej
zmieniono 1088 nazw miejscowo=B6ci, a w nast=EApnym roku przemianowano
dodatkowo 160 wsi so=B3eckich, przysi=F3=B3k=F3w i osiedli. W rejencjach
wroc=B3awskiej i legnickiej &ndash; gdzie nasilenie przypad=B3o na lata 193=
7 &ndash;
1938 przemianowano 359 nazw miejscowo=B6ci, a w legnickiej 178 <small><sup>=
<a href=3D"http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanizacja#cite_note-17" target=
=3D"_blank">[18]</a></sup></small>.<br><br>Interesting this information abo=
ve is sourced and could be used in background section as example :)<br>

<br>2009/8/25 Piotr Konieczny &lt;piokon@post.pl&gt;:<div><div></div><div c=
lass=3D"h5"><br>&gt; There seem to be some propaganda pushing going in the =
article. Molobo<br>&gt; was correct that the background section pointedly d=
id not mention<br>
&gt; anything about issues such as Polish history or existing Polish<br>
&gt; minorities (and hence, Polish names) for the Regained Territories. HM<=
br>&gt; seems to be rather unhappy that I dared to add such information, an=
d<br>&gt; unfortunately I am missing sources for that, so I&#39;d like to a=
sk<br>

&gt; interested editors to try to expand this article with sources (it will=
<br>&gt; be DYKed soon and it would be a shame if the DYKed version was the=
 one<br>&gt; that focuses on how Poles expelled Germans and renamed their l=
ands...).<br>

&gt;<br>&gt; And yes, I am fully aware that this region SHARES history betw=
een Poland<br>&gt; and Germany. The key point is SHARED, and please remembe=
r that. As Tymek<br>&gt; points out, not all settlements can be traced to P=
olish times, but there<br>

&gt; is no denying that many can.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; <a href=3D"http://en.wiki=
pedia.org/wiki/Committee_for_Settling_of_Place_Names" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_for_Settling_of_Place_Names</a><br>&gt;=
<br>
&gt;<br>&gt; --<br>
&gt; Piotr Konieczny<br>&gt;<br>&gt; &quot;The problem about Wikipedia is, =
that it just works in reality, not in<br>&gt; theory.&quot;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;=
 Molobo Molobo wrote:<br>&gt;&gt; Oh I wanted to report this as propaganda =
to folks here.<br>

&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; Tonight I am still a bit tired from the weekend-few is=
sues-the article<br>&gt;&gt; avoids mentioning background of the situation,=
 that several Polish names<br>&gt;&gt; have been previously changed to Germ=
an ones by German officials in<br>

&gt;&gt; German Empire, and Nazi Germany. The commissions work has also bee=
n to<br>&gt;&gt; reverse this. Herkus of course is not interested in mentio=
ning that. The<br>&gt;&gt; article barely mentions that all the work was in=
 regards to de-facto<br>

&gt;&gt; Polish territories, and besides officially changed names the commi=
ssion<br>&gt;&gt; was also trying to restore names from before Germanizatio=
n.<br>&gt;&gt; Polish version mentions that the Commission restored or intr=
oduced<br>

&gt;&gt; 32.000 names for settlements and 3 geographic names.<br>&gt;&gt;<b=
r>&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komisja_Ustalania_Nazw_M=
iejscowo%C5%9Bci" target=3D"_blank">http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komisja_Us=
talania_Nazw_Miejscowo%C5%9Bci</a><br>

&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; 2009/8/23 Piotr Konieczny &lt;piokon@post.=
pl&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; How&#39;s the article on the N=
azi commission for expelled coming?<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; I=
n the meantime, German editor HerkusMonte has created<br>

&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; <a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Commi=
ttee_for_Settling_of_Place_Names" target=3D"_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org=
/wiki/Polish_Committee_for_Settling_of_Place_Names</a><br>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; It is also nominated for DYK<br>

&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; <a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_tal=
k:Did_you_know#Polish_Committee_for_Settling_of_Place_Names" target=3D"_bla=
nk">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Did_you_know#Polish_Committe=
e_for_Settling_of_Place_Names</a><br>

&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; At first glance I don&#39;t see any obvi=
ous propaganda, but our experts on<br>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; the Polish-Ger=
man history may want to take a closer look at it.<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; Herkus is quite active recently, he has done a lot of edits to=
<br>

&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; <a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Prussia=
n_plebiscite" target=3D"_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Prussian_=
plebiscite</a><br>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; created a series of bios, some of =
them of Polish historians and writers,<br>

&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; and added a lot of German names to geographical plac=
es in Regained<br>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Territories (not that I have any p=
roblem with that).<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; --<br>&gt;&gt; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; Piotr Konieczny<br>&gt;&gt;<br>

&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &quot;The problem about Wikipedia is, that it just w=
orks in reality, not in<br>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; theory.&quot;<br>&gt;&gt;=
<br>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; _______________________________________________<=
br>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br>

&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net" target=3D=
"_blank">folks@wikipedometer.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:folks@wik=
ipedometer.net" target=3D"_blank">folks@wikipedometer.net</a>&gt;<br>&gt;&g=
t; &nbsp; &nbsp; <a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listin=
fo/folks" target=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listin=
fo/folks</a><br>

&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; ------------------------------=
------------------------------------------<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; ________=
_______________________________________<br>&gt;&gt; Wikipedia statistics di=
scussion list<br>

&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net" target=3D"_blank">folks=
@wikipedometer.net</a><br>&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-=
bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-=
bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt; _______________________________________________<br>&gt=
; Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br>&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:folks@wiki=
pedometer.net" target=3D"_blank">folks@wikipedometer.net</a><br>&gt; <a hre=
f=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D"_bl=
ank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br>

&gt;<br><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>

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