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Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:28:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview:  Molobo, seriously it is beyond me. Kresowiacy, people
	from former Eastern Poland, are those who suffered the most from two
	evils - Soviet regime and Ukrainian nationalism. These people have been
	fighting for truth for years - first for truth about Katyn, now for
	truth about Volhynian Genocide. Are you suggesting that Armenian -
	Polish Father Isakowicz-Zaleski, who lost several members of his family,
	murdered by the Ukrainians in 1944 in Podolia, is a Soviet/Russian
	agent? Are you suggesting that those who are fighting for rememberance
	and for human burial of bones of their grandparents are agents? These
	people suffered more than we can all imagine, and now they are called
	Soviet agents. Shame. Why is it that when a Pole mentions Volhynian
	Genocide, he is dubbed an agent, but when a Ukrainian builds a monument
	to the murderes, he is not dubbed one? Tymek [...] 
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Subject: Re: [WPM] Siemaszo/Kresowiacy/Putin/Russian manipulation
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	Content preview:  Molobo, seriously it is beyond me. Kresowiacy, people
	from former Eastern Poland, are those who suffered the most from two
	evils - Soviet regime and Ukrainian nationalism. These people have been
	fighting for truth for years - first for truth about Katyn, now for
	truth about Volhynian Genocide. Are you suggesting that Armenian -
	Polish Father Isakowicz-Zaleski, who lost several members of his family,
	murdered by the Ukrainians in 1944 in Podolia, is a Soviet/Russian
	agent? Are you suggesting that those who are fighting for rememberance
	and for human burial of bones of their grandparents are agents? These
	people suffered more than we can all imagine, and now they are called
	Soviet agents. Shame. Why is it that when a Pole mentions Volhynian
	Genocide, he is dubbed an agent, but when a Ukrainian builds a monument
	to the murderes, he is not dubbed one? Tymek [...] 
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Molobo, seriously it is beyond me. Kresowiacy, people from former Eastern P=
oland, are those who suffered the most from two evils - Soviet regime and U=
krainian nationalism. These people have been fighting for truth for years -=
 first for truth about Katyn, now for truth about Volhynian Genocide.=20
=A0
Are you suggesting that Armenian - Polish Father Isakowicz-Zaleski, who los=
t several members of his family, murdered by the Ukrainians in 1944 in Podo=
lia, is a Soviet/Russian agent? Are you suggesting that those who are fight=
ing for rememberance and for human burial of bones of their grandparents ar=
e agents?=A0 These people suffered more than we can all imagine, and now th=
ey are called Soviet agents. Shame.=20
=A0
Why is it that when a Pole mentions Volhynian Genocide, he is dubbed an age=
nt, but when a Ukrainian builds a monument to the murderes, he is not dubbe=
d one?
=A0
Tymek
=A0


--- On Thu, 8/20/09, Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com> wrote:


From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [WPM] Siemaszo/Kresowiacy/Putin/Russian manipulation
To: folks@wikipedometer.net
Date: Thursday, August 20, 2009, 7:02 AM


Interestingly I see that Bandurist actually did insert a very puzzling piec=
e of information:
Initially Siemaszko was imprisoned by [[NKVD]] in [[Lutsk]], until the [[Na=
zi German]] attack on the [[Soviet Union]] in June 1941. The retreating Sov=
iet military police units routinely massacred Polish prisoners as "politica=
l enemies". Siemaszko survived.=20

To me it's interesting-for a long time I was personally interested why ther=
e never was a study on Soviet infiltration of the so-called "Kresowiacy"(fo=
r example Catholic Church in Poland was studied). I guess it might be due t=
o lack of access of the Soviet archives. But logic dictates that they would=
 be the most inflitrated group due to longer history under Soviet occupatio=
n and immiediate presence of Soviets. You might want to know that the recen=
t supporters of the "kresowiacy" attacks against Ukraine are coming from Pu=
tin supporters like Petr Hecko. Petr Hecko is a separatists in Ukrainian te=
rritories of Rusins who are supported by Putin's Russia and handing out Rus=
sian passports to Ukrainian citizens in Ukrainian Carpathia region. Lately =
they directly contacted Kresowiacy offering them support for attacks agains=
t Ukrainians(http://www.bibula.com/?p=3D12585).

So we should be cautious in dealings with those subjects. A lot of it is no=
t what it seems, and Russians know very well how to manipulate naive Polish=
 nationalists.



2009/8/20 Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>

Hmm the Siemiaszko articles misses that the is not considered a reliable hi=
storian and writes=A0 solely from his perspective as fighter against Ukrain=
ians and Polish nationalists
http://www.sipa.columbia.edu/ece/research/intermarium/vol7no1/wnuk.pdf

Plus he writes bizarre things like that Ukrainians wanted to exterminate Po=
lish nation(while in fact they are numerous cases in Wolyn where UPA ordere=
d Poles simply to leave).

I think we should mention that he is not reliable historian in the article =
and see if anything is sourced by him, as it would present a very POV opini=
on from non-RS source. Perhaps someone can add on this ?


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----


_______________________________________________
Wikipedia statistics discussion list
folks@wikipedometer.net
http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
=0A=0A=0A      
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><DIV>Molobo, seriously it is beyond me. Kreso=
wiacy, people from former Eastern Poland, are those who suffered the most f=
rom two evils - Soviet regime and Ukrainian nationalism. These people have =
been fighting for truth for years - first for truth about Katyn, now for tr=
uth about Volhynian Genocide. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Are you suggesting that Armenian - Polish Father Isakowicz-Zaleski, wh=
o lost several members of his family, murdered by the Ukrainians in 1944 in=
 Podolia, is a Soviet/Russian agent? Are you suggesting that those who are =
fighting for rememberance and for human burial of bones of their grandparen=
ts are agents?&nbsp; These people suffered more than we can all imagine, an=
d now they are called Soviet agents. Shame. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Why is it that when a Pole mentions Volhynian Genocide, he is dubbed a=
n agent, but when a Ukrainian builds a monument to the murderes, he is not =
dubbed one?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Tymek</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>--- On <B>Thu, 8/20/09, Molobo Molobo <I>&lt;molobus@gmail.com=
&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid"><BR>From: Molobo Molobo &lt;molobus@gmail.com&gt;<BR>=
Subject: Re: [WPM] Siemaszo/Kresowiacy/Putin/Russian manipulation<BR>To: fo=
lks@wikipedometer.net<BR>Date: Thursday, August 20, 2009, 7:02 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=3Dyiv1019679662>Interestingly I see that Bandurist actually did ins=
ert a very puzzling piece of information:<BR><I><SPAN class=3Ddiffchange>In=
itially Siemaszko </SPAN>was imprisoned <SPAN class=3Ddiffchange>by [[NKVD]=
] </SPAN>in [[<SPAN class=3Ddiffchange>Lutsk</SPAN>]], <SPAN class=3Ddiffch=
ange>until </SPAN>the [[<SPAN class=3Ddiffchange>Nazi German</SPAN>]] <SPAN=
 class=3Ddiffchange>attack on the </SPAN>[[<SPAN class=3Ddiffchange>Soviet =
Union</SPAN>]] <SPAN class=3Ddiffchange>in June 1941. The retreating Soviet=
 military police units routinely massacred Polish prisoners as "political e=
nemies". Siemaszko survived</SPAN>. </I><BR><BR>To me it's interesting-for =
a long time I was personally interested why there never was a study on Sovi=
et infiltration of the so-called "Kresowiacy"(for example Catholic Church i=
n Poland was studied). I guess it might be due to lack of access of the Sov=
iet archives. But logic dictates that they would be the most inflitrated gr=
oup due to
 longer history under Soviet occupation and immiediate presence of Soviets.=
 You might want to know that the recent supporters of the "kresowiacy" atta=
cks against Ukraine are coming from Putin supporters like Petr Hecko. Petr =
Hecko is a separatists in Ukrainian territories of Rusins<B> who are suppor=
ted by Putin's Russia and handing out Russian passports to Ukrainian citize=
ns in Ukrainian Carpathia region</B>. Lately <B>they directly contacted Kre=
sowiacy offering them support for attacks against Ukrainians(<A href=3D"htt=
p://www.bibula.com/?p=3D12585" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://www.bi=
bula.com/?p=3D12585</A>).<BR><BR></B>So we should be cautious in dealings w=
ith those subjects. A lot of it is not what it seems, and Russians know ver=
y well how to manipulate naive Polish nationalists.<BR><B><BR></B><BR>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>2009/8/20 Molobo Molobo <SPAN dir=3Dltr>&lt;<A hre=
f=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dmolobus@gmail.com" targ=
et=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:molobus@gmail.com">molobus@gma=
il.com</A>&gt;</SPAN><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt=
 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">Hmm the Siemiaszko art=
icles misses that the is not considered a reliable historian and writes&nbs=
p; solely from his perspective as fighter against Ukrainians and Polish nat=
ionalists<BR><A href=3D"http://www.sipa.columbia.edu/ece/research/intermari=
um/vol7no1/wnuk.pdf" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://www.sipa.columbi=
a.edu/ece/research/intermarium/vol7no1/wnuk.pdf</A><BR><BR>Plus he writes b=
izarre things like that Ukrainians wanted to exterminate Polish nation(whil=
e in fact they are numerous cases in Wolyn where UPA ordered Poles simply t=
o leave).<BR><BR>I think we should mention that he is not reliable historia=
n in the article and see if anything is sourced by him, as it would present=
 a very POV opinion from non-RS source. Perhaps someone can add on this ?<B=
R></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV><BR>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<BR><=
BR>
<DIV class=3DplainMail>_______________________________________________<BR>W=
ikipedia statistics discussion list<BR><A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yaho=
o.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@wiki=
pedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</A><BR><A href=3D"http://wikipedomet=
er.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D_blank>http://wikipedometer=
.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</A><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></t=
able><br>=0A=0A=0A=0A      
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