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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 12:38:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview: What pisses me off is the whole war of "names of towns
	and cities", which is being waged mostly by the Germans. I know that
	Szczecin belonged to Germany for hundreds of years, but does it really
	make any sense to change the name to Stettin, according to the timeline?
	Let us take Latvian Daugavpilis, which as Dyneburg also was Polish for
	some time. It is totally silly to change the name of this city when we
	write about its 18th century history, and I do not do it.Yes, I have
	changed Lviv to Lwow, or names of some Lithuanian places, but this is
	all my reaction to the efforts of some German and Lithuanian idiots.
	Silly wars about nothing - just use the current names Szczecin, Lviv and
	Daugavpilis all the time, without any changes, after all everybody these
	are same cities, no matter what names are. Watching edits of Dr Dan,
	Skaperod and Lokyz, I simply cannot resist and I get engaged in these
	wars myself. If only everybody could come to some conclusion. Tymek
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Subject: Re: [WPM] More cabal theory
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	Content preview:  What pisses me off is the whole war of "names of towns
	and cities", which is being waged mostly by the Germans. I know that
	Szczecin belonged to Germany for hundreds of years, but does it really
	make any sense to change the name to Stettin, according to the timeline?
	Let us take Latvian Daugavpilis, which as Dyneburg also was Polish for
	some time. It is totally silly to change the name of this city when we
	write about its 18th century history, and I do not do it.Yes, I have
	changed Lviv to Lwow, or names of some Lithuanian places, but this is
	all my reaction to the efforts of some German and Lithuanian idiots.
	Silly wars about nothing - just use the current names Szczecin, Lviv and
	Daugavpilis all the time, without any changes, after all everybody these
	are same cities, no matter what names are. Watching edits of Dr Dan,
	Skaperod and Lokyz, I simply cannot resist and I get engaged in these
	wars myself. If only everybody could come to some conclusion. Tymek
	[...] 
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What pisses me off is the whole war of "names of towns and cities", which i=
s being waged mostly by the Germans. I know that Szczecin belonged to Germa=
ny for hundreds of years, but does it really make any sense to change the n=
ame to Stettin, according to the timeline?=20
=A0
Let us take Latvian Daugavpilis, which as Dyneburg also was Polish for some=
 time. It is totally silly to change the name of this city when we write ab=
out its 18th century history, and I do not do it.Yes, I have changed Lviv t=
o Lwow, or names of some Lithuanian places, but this is all my reaction to =
the efforts of some German and Lithuanian idiots. Silly wars about nothing =
- just use the current names Szczecin, Lviv and Daugavpilis=A0all the time,=
 without any changes, after all everybody these are same cities, no matter =
what names are. Watching edits of Dr Dan, Skaperod and Lokyz, I simply cann=
ot resist and I get engaged in these wars myself. If only everybody could c=
ome to some conclusion.
Tymek

--- On Sun, 6/14/09, radek szulga <rsszulga@gmail.com> wrote:


From: radek szulga <rsszulga@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [WPM] More cabal theory
To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009, 1:25 PM


I was gonna give Krzyzowiec as an example of Polish crazy nationalist
(though he makes the standard neo nazi excuses that he is only a
"patriot" and "just proud of his heritage" or whatever) but Piotrus
beat me to it. I've also been seeing an account from "GorliwyPolak"
but I have my suspicions that that may be an agent provocateur account
- right before GorliwyPolak there was GorliwyLitwin whose editing
style was very reminiscent of Dr. Dan's (who's ideology seems to be
trolling for trolling's sake).

I agree that the idea of Nationalism is a continuum not a either/or
type of thing. Some moderate amount of nationalism is fine and
commendable even. I mean, sure, when Poland plays Germany in football
I cheer for Poland. But there's a lot of double standards on wiki
here. German nationalists like Skapperod or Karasek basically want to
rewrite the history of Polish cities and places to say that these are
German and hint that they'll be German again some day. Poles just want
the fact that Poland and Lithuania (and my family's actually from
Lithuania) share a common history mentioned somewhere in the relevant
article but Lithuanian nationalists like M.K and Lokyz try to purge
any mentionining of Polishness and write articles in support of
Lithuanian extremist organizations (in addition to being simply plain
assholes). Germans want articles on Polish cities to be named in
German, Poles want articles on Lithuanian cities to just mention
somewhere that Lithuanian Poles or Polish Lithuanians or mixed breeds
lived/live there at some point. It's a matter of degree but somehow
opposing the first and supporting the second makes you a Polish
nationalist.

Radek


2009/6/14 Digwuren <digwuren@gmail.com>:
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 19:48, Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> My impression was that any mention of German war crimes Germany
>> related facts(for example Herero Genocide) was categorised as
>> expression 'Polish nationalism'.
>
> Nationalism is a fuzzy concept. =A0 It covers potentially a wide field of
> distinguishable meanings. =A0Unfortunately, many people don't realise thi=
s,
> and tend to treat different forms of nationalism as though they were
> equivalent. =A0Some people, to the contrary, deliberately conflate differ=
ent
> forms of nationalism.
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=3DTalk:2008_South_Ossetia_war&=
diff=3Dprev&oldid=3D296049496>
> is an example of FeelSunny attempting to ascribe an extreme form of
> nationalism to his opponents. =A0People with such extreme beliefs are rar=
e,
> but they can form the bulk of the stereotypes.
> --
> Andres Soolo
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> folks@wikipedometer.net
> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>
>

_______________________________________________
Wikipedia statistics discussion list
folks@wikipedometer.net
http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
=0A=0A=0A      
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<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><DIV>What pisses me off is the whole war of "=
names of towns and cities", which is being waged mostly by the Germans. I k=
now that Szczecin belonged to Germany for hundreds of years, but does it re=
ally make any sense to change the name to Stettin, according to the timelin=
e? </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Let us take Latvian Daugavpilis, which as Dyneburg also was Polish for=
 some time. It is totally silly to change the name of this city when we wri=
te about its 18th century history, and I do not do it.Yes, I have changed L=
viv to Lwow, or names of some Lithuanian places, but this is all my reactio=
n to the efforts of some German and Lithuanian idiots. Silly wars about not=
hing - just use the current names Szczecin, Lviv and Daugavpilis&nbsp;all t=
he time, without any changes, after all everybody these are same cities, no=
 matter what names are. Watching edits of Dr Dan, Skaperod and Lokyz, I sim=
ply cannot resist and I get engaged in these wars myself. If only everybody=
 could come to some conclusion.</DIV>
<DIV>Tymek</DIV>
<DIV><BR>--- On <B>Sun, 6/14/09, radek szulga <I>&lt;rsszulga@gmail.com&gt;=
</I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid"><BR>From: radek szulga &lt;rsszulga@gmail.com&gt;<BR>=
Subject: Re: [WPM] More cabal theory<BR>To: "Wikipedia statistics" &lt;folk=
s@wikipedometer.net&gt;<BR>Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009, 1:25 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV class=3DplainMail>I was gonna give Krzyzowiec as an example of Polish =
crazy nationalist<BR>(though he makes the standard neo nazi excuses that he=
 is only a<BR>"patriot" and "just proud of his heritage" or whatever) but P=
iotrus<BR>beat me to it. I've also been seeing an account from "GorliwyPola=
k"<BR>but I have my suspicions that that may be an agent provocateur accoun=
t<BR>- right before GorliwyPolak there was GorliwyLitwin whose editing<BR>s=
tyle was very reminiscent of Dr. Dan's (who's ideology seems to be<BR>troll=
ing for trolling's sake).<BR><BR>I agree that the idea of Nationalism is a =
continuum not a either/or<BR>type of thing. Some moderate amount of nationa=
lism is fine and<BR>commendable even. I mean, sure, when Poland plays Germa=
ny in football<BR>I cheer for Poland. But there's a lot of double standards=
 on wiki<BR>here. German nationalists like Skapperod or Karasek basically w=
ant to<BR>rewrite the history of Polish cities and places to say that
 these are<BR>German and hint that they'll be German again some day. Poles =
just want<BR>the fact that Poland and Lithuania (and my family's actually f=
rom<BR>Lithuania) share a common history mentioned somewhere in the relevan=
t<BR>article but Lithuanian nationalists like M.K and Lokyz try to purge<BR=
>any mentionining of Polishness and write articles in support of<BR>Lithuan=
ian extremist organizations (in addition to being simply plain<BR>assholes)=
. Germans want articles on Polish cities to be named in<BR>German, Poles wa=
nt articles on Lithuanian cities to just mention<BR>somewhere that Lithuani=
an Poles or Polish Lithuanians or mixed breeds<BR>lived/live there at some =
point. It's a matter of degree but somehow<BR>opposing the first and suppor=
ting the second makes you a Polish<BR>nationalist.<BR><BR>Radek<BR><BR><BR>=
2009/6/14 Digwuren &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose=
?to=3Ddigwuren@gmail.com"
 ymailto=3D"mailto:digwuren@gmail.com">digwuren@gmail.com</A>&gt;:<BR>&gt; =
On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 19:48, Molobo Molobo &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc328=
.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dmolobus@gmail.com" ymailto=3D"mailto:molobu=
s@gmail.com">molobus@gmail.com</A>&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; My im=
pression was that any mention of German war crimes Germany<BR>&gt;&gt; rela=
ted facts(for example Herero Genocide) was categorised as<BR>&gt;&gt; expre=
ssion 'Polish nationalism'.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Nationalism is a fuzzy concept.=
 &nbsp; It covers potentially a wide field of<BR>&gt; distinguishable meani=
ngs. &nbsp;Unfortunately, many people don't realise this,<BR>&gt; and tend =
to treat different forms of nationalism as though they were<BR>&gt; equival=
ent. &nbsp;Some people, to the contrary, deliberately conflate different<BR=
>&gt; forms of nationalism.<BR>&gt; &lt;<A
 href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=3DTalk:2008_South_Osseti=
a_war&amp;diff=3Dprev&amp;oldid=3D296049496" target=3D_blank>http://en.wiki=
pedia.org/w/index.php?title=3DTalk:2008_South_Ossetia_war&amp;diff=3Dprev&a=
mp;oldid=3D296049496</A>&gt;<BR>&gt; is an example of FeelSunny attempting =
to ascribe an extreme form of<BR>&gt; nationalism to his opponents. &nbsp;P=
eople with such extreme beliefs are rare,<BR>&gt; but they can form the bul=
k of the stereotypes.<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; Andres Soolo<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; _____=
__________________________________________<BR>&gt; Wikipedia statistics dis=
cussion list<BR>&gt; <A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?t=
o=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">fol=
ks@wikipedometer.net</A><BR>&gt; <A href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bi=
n/mailman/listinfo/folks"
 target=3D_blank>http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</A=
><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR=
>Wikipedia statistics discussion list<BR><A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.ya=
hoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@wi=
kipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</A><BR><A href=3D"http://wikipedom=
eter.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D_blank>http://wikipedomet=
er.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</A><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr><=
/table><br>=0A=0A=0A=0A      
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