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Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:25:15 -0400
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From: Andrei Dombay <wikibiophys@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview: That is how it works. KGB fabricated false numbers of
	prisoners in Gulag by providing their "original documents" to
	researchers like Zemskov. Now, these numbers are cited everywhere,
	including "Gulag" by Applebaum who is a honest Western resarcher.
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	Content preview:  That is how it works. KGB fabricated false numbers of
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	researchers like Zemskov. Now, these numbers are cited everywhere,
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That is how it works. KGB fabricated false numbers of prisoners in Gulag by
providing their "original documents" to researchers like Zemskov. Now, these
numbers are cited everywhere, including "Gulag" by Applebaum who is a honest
Western resarcher. "Siebert" promoted these KGB numbers relentlessly in WP.

 Now it does not matter that
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Antonov-Ovseenko and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olga_Shatunovskaya gave completely different
and much greater numbers based on earlier documents from the same CPSU/KGB
archives. The official report by Shatunovskaya has been destroyed, as far as
I remember.  The only remaining catch is this: the number of prisoners who
arrived to Gulag per year was close to a million (per official/Applebaum
sources if I am not mistaken), but the total number of prisoners in Gulag
was also ... 1-2 million per KGB data.  It is hard to imagine that the
entire population of Gulag was renewed during every 1-2 years (although
Applebaum seems to belive that).




On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 3:59 PM, Digwuren <digwuren@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 22:04, Miacek and his crime-fighting dog <
> miacek08@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> i agree that Siebert is a rather difficult case, exactly due to his
>> professional approach. He is constantly POV-pushing that e.g. MRP was
>> some inevitable step for ''buying time in order to build defences''
>> etc. - a completely nonsensical POV, but alas supported by many
>> Western academics.
>
>
> Supported?  Consistent, perhaps, but supported?
>
> --
> Andres Soolo
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> folks@wikipedometer.net
> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>
>

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That is how it works. KGB fabricated false numbers of prisoners in Gulag by=
 providing their &quot;original documents&quot; to researchers like Zemskov=
. Now, these numbers are cited everywhere, including &quot;Gulag&quot; by A=
pplebaum who is a honest Western resarcher. &quot;Siebert&quot; promoted th=
ese KGB numbers relentlessly in WP. <br>
<br>=A0Now it does not matter that <a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/=
Anton_Antonov-Ovseenko">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Antonov-Ovseenko=
</a> and <a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olga_Shatunovskaya">http:/=
/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olga_Shatunovskaya</a> gave completely different and=
 much greater numbers based on earlier documents from the same CPSU/KGB arc=
hives. The official report by Shatunovskaya has been destroyed, as far as I=
 remember.=A0 The only remaining catch is this: the number of prisoners who=
 arrived to Gulag per year was close to a million (per official/Applebaum s=
ources if I am not mistaken), but the total number of prisoners in Gulag wa=
s also ... 1-2 million per KGB data.=A0 It is hard to imagine that the enti=
re population of Gulag was renewed during every 1-2 years (although Appleba=
um seems to belive that). <br>
<br><br><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 3:59 PM,=
 Digwuren <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:digwuren@gmail.com">digwu=
ren@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex=
; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"im">On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 22:04,=
 Miacek and his crime-fighting dog <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
miacek08@googlemail.com" target=3D"_blank">miacek08@googlemail.com</a>&gt;<=
/span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
i agree that Siebert is a rather difficult case, exactly due to his<br>
professional approach. He is constantly POV-pushing that e.g. MRP was<br>
some inevitable step for &#39;&#39;buying time in order to build defences&#=
39;&#39;<br>
etc. - a completely nonsensical POV, but alas supported by many<br>
Western academics.</blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>Supported? =A0Cons=
istent, perhaps, but supported?</div><div><br></div></div><font color=3D"#8=
88888">-- <br>Andres Soolo<br>
</font><br>_______________________________________________<br>
Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=
=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br>

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