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Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 10:59:13 +0300
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From: Digwuren <digwuren@gmail.com>
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	Content preview:  On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 07:48, Andrei Dombay
	<wikibiophys@gmail.com> wrote: > I hope you realize that "criminals"
	can
	not get and transport that kind of > weapons without a direct order
	from Russian government ( a bribe would not > suffice). [...] 
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	Content preview:  On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 07:48, Andrei Dombay
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On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 07:48, Andrei Dombay <wikibiophys@gmail.com> wrote:

> I hope you realize that "criminals" can not get and transport that kind of
> weapons without a direct order from Russian government ( a bribe would not
> suffice).


Indirect order.  Kremlin wouldn't go around giving orders to small-time
crooks.  Somebody from Kremlin would pally around with the local Godfather;
the order would trickle down via the usual chain of command; then,
ultimately, small-time crooks would be hired to do the dirty smuggling job.
 That is, if it was a weapon smuggling operation.

It's not necessarily that the initiative would have come from the
government, but even if it was proposed by the leading mafiosi, somebody
from the government would necessarily have signed off a trade of arms of
this level of strategic significance.  In the latter case, some sort of
bribe could have been passed, but I wouldn't bet on it -- as far as I
understand, top brass of Russian government corruption works more on a
loyalty-and-patronage basis rather than direct *quid pro quo* bribery.  (But
I might have been misled by the 'technocrat' image.)

The legendary Bout (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Bout) worked with
> the approval from the very top. Hence they covered him when needed.
>

Do you have a public source for this?

Whatever it was, that was a government-planned operation from the begining.
> We only do not know what it really was. Maybe chemical weapons for Hisballah
> to attack Israel, maybe rockets for North Korea to attack US.
>

The latter is feasible.  The former seems unlikely.  Chemical weapons are
mostly useless for tactical purposes (well, at least in the usual sense;
they are threatening enough to use in a terrorist attack); it seems unlikely
this kind of project would have been undertaken for them.  I suppose it
could have been some form of espionage chemical cargo, but that would not
have a lot of bulk and would probably have been easier to deliver via ground
or air transport.

There are also other possibilities.  Algeria is nearby numerous Middle
Eastern countries and could perhaps be a relatively safe (for the smugglers)
gateway to Northern Africa; Russia has been trying to expand its influence
in both of those regions.  And naturally, Mossad would be
quite interested in what's happening in Israel's immediate neighbourhood.

-- 
Andres Soolo

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<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 07:48, Andrei Dombay <spa=
n dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wikibiophys@gmail.com">wikibiophys@gmai=
l.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
I hope you realize that &quot;criminals&quot; can not get and transport tha=
t kind of weapons without a direct order from Russian government ( a bribe =
would not suffice).</blockquote><div><br></div><div>Indirect order. =C2=A0K=
remlin wouldn&#39;t go around giving orders to small-time crooks. =C2=A0Som=
ebody from Kremlin would pally around with the local Godfather; the order w=
ould trickle down via the usual chain of command; then, ultimately, small-t=
ime crooks would be hired to do the dirty smuggling job. =C2=A0That is, if =
it was a weapon smuggling operation.</div>
<div><br></div><div>It&#39;s not necessarily that the initiative would have=
 come from the government, but even if it was proposed by the leading mafio=
si, somebody from the government would necessarily have signed off a trade =
of arms of this level of strategic significance. =C2=A0In the latter case, =
some sort of bribe could have been passed, but I wouldn&#39;t bet on it -- =
as far as I understand, top brass of Russian government corruption works mo=
re on a loyalty-and-patronage basis rather than direct <i>quid pro quo</i>=
=C2=A0bribery. =C2=A0(But I might have been misled by the &#39;technocrat&#=
39; image.)</div>
<div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">The legendary Bout (<a href=
=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Bout" target=3D"_blank">http://en.w=
ikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Bout</a>) worked with the approval from the very t=
op. Hence they covered him when needed.<br>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>Do you have a public source for this?</div=
><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8e=
x;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Whatever it was, that was a=
 government-planned operation from the begining. We only do not know what i=
t really was. Maybe chemical weapons for Hisballah to attack Israel, maybe =
rockets for North Korea to attack US.<br>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>The latter is feasible.=C2=A0=C2=A0The for=
mer seems unlikely. =C2=A0Chemical weapons are mostly useless for tactical =
purposes (well, at least in the usual sense; they are threatening enough to=
 use in a terrorist attack); it seems unlikely this kind of project would h=
ave been undertaken for them. =C2=A0I suppose it could have been some form =
of espionage chemical cargo, but that would not have a lot of bulk and woul=
d probably have been easier to deliver via ground or air transport.</div>
<div><br></div><div>There are also other possibilities. =C2=A0Algeria is ne=
arby numerous Middle Eastern countries and could perhaps be a relatively sa=
fe (for the smugglers) gateway to Northern Africa; Russia has been trying t=
o expand its influence in both of those regions.=C2=A0=C2=A0And=C2=A0natura=
lly,=C2=A0Mossad=C2=A0would=C2=A0be quite=C2=A0interested=C2=A0in=C2=A0what=
&#39;s happening in Israel&#39;s=C2=A0immediate=C2=A0neighbourhood.</div>
<div><br></div><div>--=C2=A0</div></div>Andres Soolo<br>

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