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Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 01:27:22 +0200
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From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview:  Not a surprise here: Skapperod instantly removed
	information that it is classified as population transfer as well:
	http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Expulsion_of_Germans_after_World_War_II&diff=312089905&oldid=312081527
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	Content preview:  Not a surprise here: Skapperod instantly removed
	information that it is classified as population transfer as well:
	http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Expulsion_of_Germans_after_World_War_II&diff=312089905&oldid=312081527
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Not a surprise here:
Skapperod instantly removed information that it is classified as population
transfer as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=3DExpulsion_of_Germans_after_Worl=
d_War_II&diff=3D312089905&oldid=3D312081527

While he objects to claim that there is a debate, he used that objection to
remove sourced information-that it is also named population transfer(which
was sourced).
Counterarguments:
-Why was opposition to debate used to remove information about population
transfer which was sourced ?
-population transfer, ethnic cleansing, genocide are three different terms
and as such indicate existance of difference of opinion as to what the
events constituted.


2009/9/5 Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>

> To Jacurek and Radek,  I added to the lead about "expulsions" of Germans
> that they are also classified as population transfer, right now they are
> named as ethnic cleansing or genocide in the lead. I left that POV for no=
w
> and the only change is adding that also population transfer is used with
> sources.
>
> See below:
>
> There is an ongoing debate as the classification of the events which have
> been classified as either [[population transfer]],<ref>Expelling the
> Germans: British Opinion and Post-1945 Population Transfer in Context,
> Matthew Frank Oxford University Press,  2008 </ref><ref>Europe and German
> unification,
> Renata Fritsch-Bournazel page 77, Berg Publishers 1992</ref>, [[ethnic
> cleansing]],<ref>*{{cite book|title=3DJ=FCdische Geschichte als allgemein=
e
> Geschichte|first1=3DDan|last1=3DDiner|first2=3DRaphael|last2=3DGross|firs=
t3=3DYfaat|last3=3DWeiss|publisher=3DVandenhoeck
> & Ruprecht|year=3D2006|isbn=3D3525362889|page=3D163}}
> *{{cite book|title=3DImmigration and asylum: from 1900 to the present, Vo=
lume
> 3|first=3DMatthew J.|last=3DGibney|authorlink=3D
> http://www.rsc.ox.ac.uk/index.html?gibney|publisher=3DABC-CLIO|year=3D200=
5|isbn=3D1576077969|page=3D196<http://www.rsc.ox.ac.uk/index.html?gibney%7C=
publisher=3DABC-CLIO%7Cyear=3D2005%7Cisbn=3D1576077969%7Cpage=3D196>
> }}
> *{{cite book|title=3DRedrawing nations: ethnic cleansing in East-Central
> Europe, 1944-1948. Harvard Cold War studies book
> series|editor1-first=3DPhilipp|editor1-last=3DTher|editor2-first=3DAna|ed=
itor2-last=3DSiljak|first=3DEagle|last=3DGlassheim|publisher=3DRowman
> & Littlefield|year=3D2001|isbn=3D0742510948|page=3D197}}
> *{{cite book|title=3DWhat is
> genocide?|first=3DMartin|last=3DShaw|authorlink=3DMartin Shaw
> (sociologist)|publisher=3DPolity|year=3D2007|isbn=3D0745631827|page=3D56}=
}
> *{{cite book|title=3DDictionary of genocide, Volume
> 2|first1=3DSamuel|last1=3DTotten|first1=3DPaul|last2=3DRobert|last2=3DBar=
trop|first3=3DSteven
> L|last3=3DJacobs|publisher=3D[[Greenwood Publishing
> Group]]|year=3D2008|isbn=3D0313346445|page=3D335}}
> *{{cite book|title=3DExpelling the Germans: British opinion and post-1945
> population transfer in context. Oxford historical monographs|firt=3DMatth=
ew
> James|last=3DFrank|publisher=3D[[Oxford University]]
> Press|year=3D2008|isbn=3D0199233640|page=3D5}}</ref> [[democide]]<ref
> name=3DRummel305>{{cite book|title=3DDeath by government|authorlink=3DRud=
olph
> Joseph Rummel|first=3DRudolph
> Joseph|last=3DRummel|edition=3D6|publisher=3DTransaction
> Publishers|year=3D1997|isbn=3D1560009276|url=3D
> http://www.google.de/books?id=3DN1j1QdPMockC&pg=3DPA305|accessdate=3D2009=
-08-27|page=3D305}<http://www.google.de/books?id=3DN1j1QdPMockC&pg=3DPA305%=
7Caccessdate=3D2009-08-27%7Cpage=3D305%7D>}</ref>
> and [[genocide]].<ref>*{{cite book|title=3DWhat is
> genocide?|first=3DMartin|last=3DShaw|authorlink=3DMartin Shaw
> (sociologist)|publisher=3DPolity|year=3D2007|isbn=3D0745631827|pages=3D56=
,60}}
> *{{cite web|url=3D
> http://www.ermacora-institut.at/wDeutsch/dokumente/pdf/gutachten_ermacora=
_1991.pdf|title=3DGutachten<http://www.ermacora-institut.at/wDeutsch/dokume=
nte/pdf/gutachten_ermacora_1991.pdf%7Ctitle=3DGutachten>Ermacora 1991|first=
=3DFelix|last=3DErmacora|authorlink=3DFelix
> Ermacora|format=3Dpdf|year=3D1991}}</ref>
>
>
>
>

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Not a surprise here:<br>Skapperod instantly removed information that it is =
classified as population transfer as well:<br><br><a href=3D"http://en.wiki=
pedia.org/w/index.php?title=3DExpulsion_of_Germans_after_World_War_II&amp;d=
iff=3D312089905&amp;oldid=3D312081527">http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?=
title=3DExpulsion_of_Germans_after_World_War_II&amp;diff=3D312089905&amp;ol=
did=3D312081527</a><br>
<br>While he objects to claim that there is a debate, he used that objectio=
n to remove sourced information-that it is also named population transfer(w=
hich was sourced).<br>Counterarguments:<br>-Why was opposition to debate us=
ed to remove information about population transfer which was sourced ?<br>
-population transfer, ethnic cleansing, genocide are three different terms =
and as such indicate existance of difference of opinion as to what the even=
ts constituted.<br><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2009/9/5 Molobo Molob=
o <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:molobus@gmail.com">molobus@gmail.=
com</a>&gt;</span><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">To Jacurek and Ra=
dek,=A0 I added to the lead about &quot;expulsions&quot; of Germans that th=
ey are also classified as population transfer, right now they are named as =
ethnic cleansing or genocide in the lead. I left that POV for now and the o=
nly change is adding that also population transfer is used with sources.<br=
>

<br>See below:<br><br>There is an ongoing debate as the classification of t=
he events which have been classified as either [[population transfer]],&lt;=
ref&gt;Expelling the Germans: British Opinion and Post-1945 Population Tran=
sfer in Context, Matthew Frank Oxford University Press,=A0 2008 &lt;/ref&gt=
;&lt;ref&gt;Europe and German unification,<br>

Renata Fritsch-Bournazel page 77, Berg Publishers 1992&lt;/ref&gt;, [[ethni=
c cleansing]],&lt;ref&gt;*{{cite book|title=3DJ=FCdische Geschichte als all=
gemeine Geschichte|first1=3DDan|last1=3DDiner|first2=3DRaphael|last2=3DGros=
s|first3=3DYfaat|last3=3DWeiss|publisher=3DVandenhoeck &amp; Ruprecht|year=
=3D2006|isbn=3D3525362889|page=3D163}}<br>

*{{cite book|title=3DImmigration and asylum: from 1900 to the present, Volu=
me 3|first=3DMatthew J.|last=3DGibney|authorlink=3D<a href=3D"http://www.rs=
c.ox.ac.uk/index.html?gibney%7Cpublisher=3DABC-CLIO%7Cyear=3D2005%7Cisbn=3D=
1576077969%7Cpage=3D196" target=3D"_blank">http://www.rsc.ox.ac.uk/index.ht=
ml?gibney|publisher=3DABC-CLIO|year=3D2005|isbn=3D1576077969|page=3D196</a>=
}}<br>

*{{cite book|title=3DRedrawing nations: ethnic cleansing in East-Central Eu=
rope, 1944-1948. Harvard Cold War studies book series|editor1-first=3DPhili=
pp|editor1-last=3DTher|editor2-first=3DAna|editor2-last=3DSiljak|first=3DEa=
gle|last=3DGlassheim|publisher=3DRowman &amp; Littlefield|year=3D2001|isbn=
=3D0742510948|page=3D197}}<br>

*{{cite book|title=3DWhat is genocide?|first=3DMartin|last=3DShaw|authorlin=
k=3DMartin Shaw (sociologist)|publisher=3DPolity|year=3D2007|isbn=3D0745631=
827|page=3D56}}<br>*{{cite book|title=3DDictionary of genocide, Volume 2|fi=
rst1=3DSamuel|last1=3DTotten|first1=3DPaul|last2=3DRobert|last2=3DBartrop|f=
irst3=3DSteven L|last3=3DJacobs|publisher=3D[[Greenwood Publishing Group]]|=
year=3D2008|isbn=3D0313346445|page=3D335}}<br>

*{{cite book|title=3DExpelling the Germans: British opinion and post-1945 p=
opulation transfer in context. Oxford historical monographs|firt=3DMatthew =
James|last=3DFrank|publisher=3D[[Oxford University]] Press|year=3D2008|isbn=
=3D0199233640|page=3D5}}&lt;/ref&gt; [[democide]]&lt;ref name=3DRummel305&g=
t;{{cite book|title=3DDeath by government|authorlink=3DRudolph Joseph Rumme=
l|first=3DRudolph Joseph|last=3DRummel|edition=3D6|publisher=3DTransaction =
Publishers|year=3D1997|isbn=3D1560009276|url=3D<a href=3D"http://www.google=
.de/books?id=3DN1j1QdPMockC&amp;pg=3DPA305%7Caccessdate=3D2009-08-27%7Cpage=
=3D305%7D" target=3D"_blank">http://www.google.de/books?id=3DN1j1QdPMockC&a=
mp;pg=3DPA305|accessdate=3D2009-08-27|page=3D305}</a>}&lt;/ref&gt; and [[ge=
nocide]].&lt;ref&gt;*{{cite book|title=3DWhat is genocide?|first=3DMartin|l=
ast=3DShaw|authorlink=3DMartin Shaw (sociologist)|publisher=3DPolity|year=
=3D2007|isbn=3D0745631827|pages=3D56,60}}<br>

*{{cite web|url=3D<a href=3D"http://www.ermacora-institut.at/wDeutsch/dokum=
ente/pdf/gutachten_ermacora_1991.pdf%7Ctitle=3DGutachten" target=3D"_blank"=
>http://www.ermacora-institut.at/wDeutsch/dokumente/pdf/gutachten_ermacora_=
1991.pdf|title=3DGutachten</a> Ermacora 1991|first=3DFelix|last=3DErmacora|=
authorlink=3DFelix Ermacora|format=3Dpdf|year=3D1991}}&lt;/ref&gt; <br>

<br><br><br>
</blockquote></div><br>

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