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Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 20:41:52 +0200
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From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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"Even if you consider everyone who fought in Wehrmacht guilty (and to some
extent they were), how about women "
To the extent of my knowledge women had voting rights in Nazi Germany and
the the territories from which Germans have been removed were the bastion o=
f
Nazi movement an highest percentage of Nazi voters. Also German women serve=
d
in auxillary SS formations including service in concentration and death
camps.

You might look at:


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1142824/Nazi-women-expose=
d-bit-bad-Hitlers-deranged-male-followers.html
*

*

*Until recently, the role of the Nazi woman in the construction of the
brutal state machinery of the Reich has never been truly revealed.*

*Now a new book in Germany called Perpetrators: Women Under National
Socialism explodes the myth behind the propaganda.*

*In the first German post-war analysis of the role of women in the crimes o=
f
the Nazis, historian Kathrin Kompisch documents the shameful truth about he=
r
sex in the war, which until now has been a taboo subject in her homeland. *

*=91The participation of women in the crimes of the Nazis has been blended =
out
of the collective conscious of the Germans for a long time,=92 she writes. =
*

*The fairer sex venerated by the propaganda machine of Josef Goebbels was,
according to Kompisch, every bit as eager to turn the thumbscrews on the
victims held in Gestapo cellars across Europe; every bit as fanatical as th=
e
male when it came to crushing resistance to the state. *

*They became assistants to the doctors who first sterilised, and later
murdered, the =91useless=92 handicapped.
*

*They became head guards in the gulag of concentration camps =97 like Herta
Bothe, known as the Sadist of Stutthof for her merciless beatings. *

*And they were handmaidens to the SS as they staffed the =91baby farms=92 w=
here
=91supermen=92 children were born. In these ghoulish clinics, women were th=
e
managers and nurses. *

*And, Kompisch points out: =91One should never forget the legions of women =
who
stood by their menfolk as they killed people by the tens of thousands in
Russia, in Poland, in places like Auschwitz and Treblinka.=92*

*This was the supreme corruption of the old maxim about a woman standing
behind every successful man. In the Third Reich, it often meant a
massmurderer being silently supported by a woman who would not dream of
raising a hand to her child or kicking the family dog.
*

**

*(...)*

**

*Most Blockwaerts =97 apartment house snoops who reported on un-Nazi
activities to the party =97 were female. Women also made unofficial
denunciations to the Gestapo of suspicious neighbours, Jews and other
enemies of the state at a rate of three-to-one compared to men. *

*Women also undermined the sacredmarriage illusion which Nazism tried to
promote, for they were avid denunciators of their spouses. The surviving
files of the Gestapo in the city of Dusseldorf noted they =91try to change =
the
power balance of the household by denouncing their husbands as spies or
Communists or anti-Nazis=92. *

*Kompisch agrees: =91The cliche of Gold Mother Cross-wearing women having 1=
0
babies and baking bread was a myth. Women could and did advance themselves
massively through the Third Reich.=92 *

*One only has to see old newsreels of women fainting, crying, screaming wit=
h
adulation at the feet of Hitler to see what a Messianic effect he had on
them in the days before Elvis and The Beatles*


Read more:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1142824/Nazi-women-expose=
d-bit-bad-Hitlers-deranged-male-followers.html#ixzz0PyYyKdSX


2009/9/2 Dorin Cheptea <dorin.cheptea@gmail.com>

> To name removal of
>> German colonists and Nazis as "suffering" is an insult to all who
>> suffered.
>
>
> Wait a second. While the number 12 million is probably exagerated and
> obviously should not contain colonists, there were people who were born, =
for
> example on the banks of the Oder River, who where born German in German
> villages and towns and did not participate in any murder. Even if you
> consider everyone who fought in Wehrmacht guilty (and to some extent they
> were), how about women and children? Even if those territories had to go =
to
> Poland (and similar territories in the east had to go from Poland to Ukra=
ine
> and Belorussia), was it necessary to uproot people? More Poles, resp.
> Ukraininas and Belorussians could settle in, but Germans, respectively Po=
les
> could stay or choose to relocate only on individual basis. This did not
> happen in reality b/c the main reason was to appease Uncle Jo(seph Stalin=
).
> I am not suggesting to undo something, but I believe that eventually the =
5
> nations (Germany, Poland, Lithuania, Belarus, and Ukraine) would be matur=
e
> enough to discuss honestly these issues and answer honestly  all question=
s.
> I know such things won't happen in the 21st century, but one day it will
> happen. Think about that happy day, not about present shortcomings. BTW,
> informing honestly about something does not mean to agree or disagree wit=
h
> interpretations of the sense of that thing.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> folks@wikipedometer.net
> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>
>

--00504502e2a0ddca5004729c9e13
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&quot;Even if you consider everyone who fought in Wehrmacht guilty (and to =
some extent they were), how about women &quot;<br>To the extent of my knowl=
edge women had voting rights in Nazi Germany and the the territories from w=
hich Germans have been removed were the bastion of Nazi movement an highest=
 percentage of Nazi voters. Also German women served in auxillary SS format=
ions including service in concentration and death camps.<br>
<br>You might look at:<br><br><br><a href=3D"http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new=
s/worldnews/article-1142824/Nazi-women-exposed-bit-bad-Hitlers-deranged-mal=
e-followers.html">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1142824=
/Nazi-women-exposed-bit-bad-Hitlers-deranged-male-followers.html</a><i><br>
<br></i><p><i>Until recently, the role of the Nazi woman in the constructio=
n of
the brutal state machinery of the Reich has never been truly revealed.</i><=
/p><p><i>Now a new book in Germany called Perpetrators: Women Under Nationa=
l Socialism explodes the myth behind the propaganda.</i></p><p><i>In
the first German post-war analysis of the role of women in the crimes
of the Nazis, historian Kathrin Kompisch documents the shameful truth
about her sex in the war, which until now has been a taboo subject in
her homeland. </i></p><p><i>=91The participation of women in the crimes of =
the
Nazis has been blended out of the collective conscious of the Germans
for a long time,=92 she writes. </i></p><p><i><b>The fairer sex venerated b=
y the
propaganda machine of Josef Goebbels was, according to Kompisch, every
bit as eager to turn the thumbscrews on the victims held in Gestapo
cellars across Europe; every bit as fanatical as the male when it came
to crushing resistance to the state. </b></i></p><p><i>They became assistan=
ts to the doctors who first sterilised, and later murdered, the =91useless=
=92 handicapped. <br></i></p><p><i>They
became head guards in the gulag of concentration camps =97 like Herta
Bothe, known as the Sadist of Stutthof for her merciless beatings. </i></p>=
<p><i>And
they were handmaidens to the SS as they staffed the =91baby farms=92 where
=91supermen=92 children were born. In these ghoulish clinics, women were
the managers and nurses. </i></p><p><i>And, Kompisch points out: =91One sho=
uld
never forget the legions of women who stood by their menfolk as they
killed people by the tens of thousands in Russia, in Poland, in places
like Auschwitz and Treblinka.=92</i></p><p><i>This was the supreme corrupti=
on of
the old maxim about a woman standing behind every successful man. In
the Third Reich, it often meant a massmurderer being silently supported
by a woman who would not dream of raising a hand to her child or
kicking the family dog. <br></i></p><p><i></i></p><p><i>(...)</i></p><p><i>=
</i></p><p><i><b>Most Blockwaerts =97 apartment house snoops who reported o=
n un-Nazi
activities to the party =97 were female. Women also made unofficial
denunciations to the Gestapo of suspicious neighbours, Jews and other
enemies of the state <u>at a rate of three-to-one compared to men. </u></b>=
</i></p><p><i>Women
also undermined the sacredmarriage illusion which Nazism tried to
promote, for they were avid denunciators of their spouses. The
surviving files of the Gestapo in the city of Dusseldorf noted they
=91try to change the power balance of the household by <u><b>denouncing the=
ir
husbands as spies or Communists or anti-Nazis=92. </b></u></i></p><p><i>Kom=
pisch
agrees: =91The cliche of Gold Mother Cross-wearing women having 10 babies
and baking bread was a myth. <b>Women could and did advance themselves
massively through the Third Reich.=92 </b></i></p><p><i>One only has to see=
 old
newsreels of women fainting, crying, screaming with adulation at the
feet of Hitler to see what a Messianic effect he had on them in the
days before Elvis and The Beatles</i></p><br><div id=3D"TixyyLink" style=3D=
"border: medium none ; overflow: hidden; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-co=
lor: transparent; text-align: left; text-decoration: none;"><br>Read more: =
<a href=3D"http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1142824/Nazi-w=
omen-exposed-bit-bad-Hitlers-deranged-male-followers.html#ixzz0PyYyKdSX">ht=
tp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1142824/Nazi-women-exposed-=
bit-bad-Hitlers-deranged-male-followers.html#ixzz0PyYyKdSX</a><br>
</div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2009/9/2 Dorin Cheptea <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dorin.cheptea@gmail.com">dorin.cheptea@gmail=
.com</a>&gt;</span><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-le=
ft: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: =
1ex;">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"im"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt=
 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">To name removal of<br>
German colonists and Nazis as &quot;suffering&quot; is an insult to all who=
<br>
suffered.</blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>Wait a second. While the nu=
mber 12 million is probably exagerated and obviously should not contain col=
onists, there were people who were born, for example on the banks of the Od=
er River, who where born German in German villages and towns and did not pa=
rticipate in any murder. Even if you consider everyone who fought in Wehrma=
cht guilty (and to some extent they were), how about women and children? Ev=
en if those territories had to go to Poland (and similar territories in the=
 east had to go from Poland to Ukraine and Belorussia), was it necessary to=
 uproot people? More Poles, resp. Ukraininas and Belorussians could settle =
in, but Germans, respectively Poles could stay or choose to relocate only o=
n individual basis. This did not happen in reality b/c the main reason was =
to appease Uncle Jo(seph Stalin). I am not suggesting to undo something, bu=
t I believe that eventually the 5 nations (Germany, Poland, Lithuania, Bela=
rus, and Ukraine) would be mature enough to discuss honestly these issues a=
nd answer honestly =A0all questions. I know such things won&#39;t happen in=
 the 21st century, but one day it will happen. Think about that happy day, =
not about present shortcomings. BTW, informing honestly about something doe=
s not mean to agree or disagree with interpretations of the sense of that t=
hing.</div>

</div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br>
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=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br>

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