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Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 17:58:28 +0300
Message-ID: <f826636f0906080758y6824f97ah77013351f0b0b0f5@mail.gmail.com>
From: Dorin Cheptea <dorin.cheptea@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview:  2009/6/8 Miacek and his crime-fighting dog
	<miacek08@googlemail.com> > Shafarevich has done great job when
	treating
	socialism's historical > traces and background (see ''The Socialist
	Phenomenon''). He turned a > die-hard Russian chauvinist in early 1990s,
	actually joining the > National Salvation Front which also included
	hardline Stalinists in > addition to more 'moderate' nationalists and
	commies. I imagine > Shafarevich still being rather uncomfortable with
	such bedfellow. > > Miacek. > [...] 
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Subject: Re: [WPM] More cabal theory
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	Content preview:  2009/6/8 Miacek and his crime-fighting dog
	<miacek08@googlemail.com> > Shafarevich has done great job when treating
	socialism's historical > traces and background (see ''The Socialist
	Phenomenon''). He turned a > die-hard Russian chauvinist in early 1990s,
	actually joining the > National Salvation Front which also included
	hardline Stalinists in > addition to more 'moderate' nationalists and
	commies. I imagine > Shafarevich still being rather uncomfortable with
	such bedfellow. > > Miacek. > [...] 
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2009/6/8 Miacek and his crime-fighting dog <miacek08@googlemail.com>

> Shafarevich has done great job when treating socialism's historical
> traces and background (see ''The Socialist Phenomenon''). He turned a
> die-hard Russian chauvinist in early 1990s, actually joining the
> National Salvation Front which also included hardline Stalinists in
> addition to more 'moderate' nationalists and commies. I imagine
> Shafarevich still being rather uncomfortable with such bedfellow.
>
> Miacek.
>

He had the same ideas during the hight of the Soviet system, when he was a
member of the Sakharov's group. He was sort of a "white raven" among them.
He was anti-Soviet but part of the reason was that in his mind the Soviets
were anti-Russian. As for activity after 1990, I personally have to say one
thing: intelligent people have to know when to slow down and let new people
take the lead. If you want to be in the spotlight when you are 30, when you
are 50, and when you are 70 as well, then your egocentrism has blinded your
common sense, and you look ridiculous. Having to "endure" hardline
Stalinists is punishement for luck of common sense.


> If we want to have a real ''Eastern European'' cabal, then we have to
> recruit more members with different ethnic background. An alliance of
> Estonian-Romanian-Polish 'cabals' plus a few other _indivihduals_, me
> included, is not enough yet to represent the Eastern Europe ;-)

1) we want to have an anti-team USSR cabal. Currently that's the main
problem eastern Europeans have, but the two things are not identical. We can
subsequently use our experience with Soviet topics for other areas if we
find common goals, I agree, but without damage to the main issue.
2) Right now, it's mostly Polish-Estonian :) Two Romanians, one Latvian, one
Ukrainian, one Russian means that from these nations we luck enough WP-ians
(well, from Russia, it's a different story). We discussed one Swede at some
point, what was the conclusion? Now, "Eastern Europeans" means we have to
have both Serbs and Croations, Hungarian and Slovaks, as well as East
Germans and Lithuanians. I guess you see the problem.
3) The reason we are slow in getting more "members" is that we want to be
sure of the safety, that each of us is responsible for not suggesting even
indirectly the possibility that this discussion forum exists. The reason is
that, albeit we don't plan attacks here, as team USSR would think we do, we
do exchange information that helps each of us individually, and ultimately
our collaboration on WP gains. So, you see, we need this. Thus, we need 100%
safety. And the danger to safety can come not from one of us suddenly
turning Soviet informer (Soviets won't buy any of us after the damage we did
to them), but from one of us becoming uncomfortable on some national issue
with another one, and considering that issue more important for him than
combating team USSR, and slip a word or two in order to annoy that editor.

Dorin

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<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2009/6/8 Miacek and his crime-fighting d=
og <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:miacek08@googlemail.com">miacek0=
8@googlemail.com</a>&gt;</span><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
Shafarevich has done great job when treating socialism&#39;s historical<br>
traces and background (see &#39;&#39;The Socialist Phenomenon&#39;&#39;). H=
e turned a<br>
die-hard Russian chauvinist in early 1990s, actually joining the<br>
National Salvation Front which also included hardline Stalinists in<br>
addition to more &#39;moderate&#39; nationalists and commies. I imagine<br>
Shafarevich still being rather uncomfortable with such bedfellow.<br>
<font color=3D"#888888"><br>
Miacek.<br>
</font><div class=3D"im"></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>He had the =
same ideas during the hight of the Soviet system, when he was a member of t=
he Sakharov&#39;s group. He was sort of a &quot;white raven&quot; among the=
m. He was anti-Soviet but part of the reason was that in his mind the Sovie=
ts were anti-Russian. As for activity after 1990, I personally have to say =
one thing: intelligent people have to know when to slow down and let new pe=
ople take the lead. If you want to be in the spotlight when you are 30, whe=
n you are 50, and when you are 70 as well, then your egocentrism has blinde=
d your common sense, and you look ridiculous. Having to &quot;endure&quot; =
hardline Stalinists is punishement for luck of common sense.</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=
=3D"border-collapse: collapse; ">&gt; If we want to have a real &#39;&#39;E=
astern European&#39;&#39; cabal, then we have to<br>&gt; recruit more membe=
rs with different ethnic background. An alliance of<br>
&gt; Estonian-Romanian-Polish &#39;cabals&#39; plus a few other _indivihdua=
ls_, me<br>&gt; included, is not enough yet to represent the Eastern Europe=
 ;-)</span></div><div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-coll=
apse: collapse;"><br>
</span></div><div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse=
: collapse;">1) we want to have an anti-team USSR cabal. Currently that&#39=
;s the main problem eastern Europeans have, but the two things are not iden=
tical. We can subsequently use our experience with Soviet topics for other =
areas if we find common goals, I agree, but without damage to the main issu=
e.</span></div>
<div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: collapse;">=
2) Right now, it&#39;s mostly Polish-Estonian :) Two Romanians, one Latvian=
, one Ukrainian, one Russian means that from these nations we luck enough W=
P-ians (well, from Russia, it&#39;s a different story). We discussed one Sw=
ede at some point, what was the conclusion? Now, &quot;Eastern Europeans&qu=
ot; means we have to have both Serbs and Croations, Hungarian and Slovaks, =
as well as East Germans and Lithuanians. I guess you see the problem.</span=
></div>
<div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: collapse;">=
3) The reason we are slow in getting more &quot;members&quot; is that we wa=
nt to be sure of the safety, that each of us is responsible for not suggest=
ing even indirectly the possibility that this discussion forum exists. The =
reason is that, albeit we don&#39;t plan attacks here, as team USSR would t=
hink we do, we do exchange information that helps each of us individually, =
and ultimately our collaboration on WP gains. So, you see, we need this. Th=
us, we need 100% safety. And the danger to safety can come not from one of =
us suddenly turning Soviet informer (Soviets won&#39;t buy any of us after =
the damage we did to them), but from one of us becoming uncomfortable on so=
me national issue with another one, and considering that issue more importa=
nt for him than combating team USSR, and slip a word or two in order to ann=
oy that editor.=A0</span></div>
<div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: collapse;">=
<br></span></div><div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-coll=
apse: collapse;">Dorin</span></div></div>

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