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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:53:32 +0200
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From: Digwuren <digwuren@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview:  On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 10:14, Digwuren
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	beat Wikipedia at Slashdot's game, and -- > by years of hard work --
	possibly even at Google's game. (Ironically, the > hard work will need
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On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 10:14, Digwuren <digwuren@gmail.com> wrote:

> As for search engine, we are probably not capable of beating Google at its
> own game, but we might be able to beat Wikipedia at Slashdot's game, and --
> by years of hard work -- possibly even at Google's game.  (Ironically, the
> hard work will need to be more about promotion than about content creation.)
>  So, for now, we're stuck with Wikipedia, and forced to try and make the
> best use of it.
>

One of the things about Wikipedia's community is that it harps on -- and
seeks to stamp on its participants -- the feelings of inferiority.  I
believe that both the way Wikipedia banishes the lists of contributors lists
to the history pages, rather than proudly listing them below every article,
and the way the NOR policy is most commonly interpreted ("you lousy
Wikipedians are incapable of research, so don't do it") are indications of
this phenomenon.

This means that a large share of people attracted to Wikipedia's
communityare automatically social misfits.  However, Wikipedia's
stated
ideals appeal also to geeks, who often don't care of social conformity
because of experience in bully-run high school societies, and it was the
geeks writing down what they knew about everything, not the community, that
made Wikipedia a household term.

This means there's an important vulnerability in Wikipedia's geek retention
strategy: while many don't care about social conformity, geeks are
notoriously prone to value meritocracies.  This, in turn, means that if
somebody will be capable of seeding a new community maintaining a
meritocratic peer approval system and keeping the bullies out, social
osmosis is likely to draw, over time, away the best participants of current
Wikipedia, and benefit from them by itself.  (Incidentally, I believe that
many of Citizendium's core policies are tailored to do exactly that.  While
current Citizendium lacks promotion strength, this may change, so I would
say Citizendium is one of the most likely successors to Wikipedia.)

And that, I believe, is the sociological side of beating Wikipedia at Google
game.  There's a technical side, too, but it's more complicated, and some of
it will be Dwiki's Grand Vision document.  Meanwhile, feel free to peruse
one of my earliest writings on the topic, at <
http://digprowl.blogspot.com/2008/04/how-to-fix-wikipedia-part-1-edit-wars.html
>

-- 
Andres Soolo

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<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 10:14, Digwuren <span di=
r=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:digwuren@gmail.com">digwuren@gmail.com</a>&=
gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 =
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"Ih2E3d">As for search engine, we a=
re probably not capable of beating Google at its own game, but we might be =
able to beat Wikipedia at Slashdot&#39;s game, and -- by years of hard work=
 -- possibly even at Google&#39;s game. &nbsp;(Ironically, the hard work wi=
ll need to be more about promotion than about content creation.) &nbsp;So, =
for now, we&#39;re stuck with Wikipedia, and forced to try and make the bes=
t use of it.</div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>One of the things about Wikipedia&#3=
9;s community is that it harps on -- and seeks to stamp on its participants=
 -- the feelings of inferiority. &nbsp;I believe that both the way Wikipedi=
a banishes the lists of contributors lists to the history pages, rather tha=
n proudly listing them below every article, and the way the NOR policy is m=
ost commonly interpreted (&quot;you lousy Wikipedians are incapable of rese=
arch, so don&#39;t do it&quot;) are indications of this phenomenon.</div>
<div><br></div><div>This means that a large share of people attracted to Wi=
kipedia&#39;s <span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-style: italic;=
">community</span> are automatically social misfits. &nbsp;However, Wikiped=
ia&#39;s <span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-style: italic;">sta=
ted ideals</span>&nbsp;appeal also to geeks, who often don&#39;t care of so=
cial conformity because of experience in bully-run high school societies, a=
nd it was the geeks writing down what they knew about everything, not the c=
ommunity, that made Wikipedia a household term.</div>
<div><br></div><div>This means there&#39;s an important vulnerability in Wi=
kipedia&#39;s geek retention strategy: while many don&#39;t care about soci=
al conformity, geeks are notoriously prone to value meritocracies. &nbsp;Th=
is, in turn, means that if somebody will be capable of seeding a new commun=
ity maintaining a meritocratic peer approval system and keeping the bullies=
 out, social osmosis is likely to draw, over time, away the best participan=
ts of current Wikipedia, and benefit from them by itself. &nbsp;(Incidental=
ly, I believe that many of Citizendium&#39;s core policies are tailored to =
do exactly that. &nbsp;While current Citizendium lacks promotion strength, =
this may change, so I would say Citizendium is one of the most likely succe=
ssors to Wikipedia.)</div>
<div><br></div><div>And that, I believe, is the sociological side of beatin=
g Wikipedia at Google game. &nbsp;There&#39;s a technical side, too, but it=
&#39;s more complicated, and some of it will be Dwiki&#39;s Grand Vision do=
cument. &nbsp;Meanwhile, feel free to peruse one of my earliest writings on=
 the topic, at &lt;<a href=3D"http://digprowl.blogspot.com/2008/04/how-to-f=
ix-wikipedia-part-1-edit-wars.html">http://digprowl.blogspot.com/2008/04/ho=
w-to-fix-wikipedia-part-1-edit-wars.html</a>&gt;</div>
<div><br></div></div>-- <br>Andres Soolo<br>

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