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Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 06:08:27 +0200
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From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview:  "I am totally surprised this is unknown in Poland."
	O.G-i sent an email, an article about this is on Polish Wiki. It isn't
	unknown, it was part of the lectures at my university in regards to
	Ukrainian-Polish history. We also watched a documentary movie IIRC
	about those events. [...] 
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Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and others.
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	Content preview:  "I am totally surprised this is unknown in Poland."
	O.G-i sent an email, an article about this is on Polish Wiki. It isn't
	unknown, it was part of the lectures at my university in regards to
	Ukrainian-Polish history. We also watched a documentary movie IIRC about
	those events. [...] 
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 "I am totally surprised this is unknown in Poland."
O.G-i sent an email, an article about this is on Polish Wiki. It isn't
unknown, it was part of the lectures at my university in regards to
Ukrainian-Polish history. We also watched a documentary movie IIRC
about those events.

2009/8/3 O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>:
>
> There is a book that might be of benefit to you: http://books.google.com/=
books?id=3DMBCnqqnUKt4C&pg=3DPA163&lpg=3DPA163&dq=3DPacificacija&source=3Db=
l&ots=3DBciqCb6prj&sig=3DartlcSo7bL00C_YvfB71On-lDjw&hl=3Den&ei=3Dv2F2SrnLJ=
cS_tgfVzuyWCQ&sa=3DX&oi=3Dbook_result&ct=3Dresult&resnum=3D1#v=3Donepage&q=
=3DPacificacija&f=3Dfalse
>
> I am totally surprised this is unknown in Poland.
>
> --- On Mon, 8/3/09, piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> From: piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and others.
>> To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
>> Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:01 AM
>> Perhaps the
>> expression=A0"whatever it is' was unfortunate.
>> What I meant was that pacyfikacja is a noun, translated into
>> pacification. Now what pacification do you mean?
>>
>> Tymek
>>
>> --- On Sun, 8/2/09, O. G.
>> <hillock@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>
>> Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and
>> others.
>> To: "Wikipedia statistics"
>> <folks@wikipedometer.net>
>> Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 10:55 PM
>>
>>
>>
>> Whatever it is, eh? This is POLISH history, it is
>> surprising that some Poles are more interested in how many
>> of their own was killed and are completely oblivious of how
>> many the Polish state killed of others. Writing about these
>> things is not anti-Ukrainian, but writing ONLY about these
>> things at the expense of such well khown actions as
>> Pacifikacia and twisting articles to represent only one side
>> as suffering is indeed anti-Ukrainian. Reading one sided and
>> biased crap on Wikipedia one can get an impression that
>> savage Ukrainians did nothing but were massacaring innocent
>> Poles, who didn't even hurt a fly. Far from it. There is
>> enough blame to go around...
>>
>> --- On Mon, 8/3/09, piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > From: piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and
>> others.
>> > To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
>> > Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 10:35 AM
>> > Oh come on. Just write an article
>> > about Pacifikacija, whatever it is. I will read it
>> with
>> > interest. Also, if murdering almost 1000 civilians in
>> one
>> > day, as in Wola Ostrowiecka and Ostrowki, is a petty
>> thing,
>> > then I do not really know what you see as worth
>> mentioning.
>> >
>> >
>> > Is describing=A0these
>> > events=A0"anti-Ukrainian"? Is describing
>> > Holocaust "anti-German"?
>> >
>> > Tymek
>> >
>> > --- On Sun,
>> =A08/2/09, O. G.
>> > <hillock@yahoo.ca>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > From: O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>
>> > Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and
>> > others.
>> > To: "Wikipedia statistics"
>> > <folks@wikipedometer.net>
>> > Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 10:11 PM
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I knew someone will take my hyposis about Russian
>> interest
>> > in this personally. Apparently you have a lot to learn
>> about
>> > UPA and AK and their activities. No one is trying to
>> > whitewash the UPA, they did what they did. There is
>> hardly a
>> > force
>> =A0in WWII who didn't commit objectionable acts. That
>> > goes for AK in particular, which massacred up to
>> 20,000
>> > Ukrainians in reprisal killings. http://web.ku.edu/~eceurope/hist557/l=
ect17.htm
>> >
>> > This must be a thing with some Poles to piss and moan
>> about
>> > every little thing someone caused them. There are
>> several
>> > anti-Ukrainian articles about UPA atrocities, The
>> Volhyn
>> > Massacre is jus an example of the egregeous, one
>> sided
>> > anti-Ukrainian rant. If you are so concerned about
>> the
>> > truth, why not write an article on Pacifikacija? Or
>> this is
>> > not part of the Polish history? Or you conveniently
>> prefer
>> > to turn a blind eye to it?
>> >=A0 Start from there...
>> >
>> >
>> > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > From: piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
>> > > Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek
>> and
>> > others.
>> > > To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
>> > > Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 9:34 AM
>> > > Oh yes, I am one of these persons
>> > > financed by the Russians. They=A0have paid me
>> 50
>> > > Belarusian rubles, since paying in Russian
>> currency
>> > would be
>> > > too obvious, and they wanted to keep it a
>> secret.
>> > >
>> > > OK,
>> >=A0 let us be serious here. Ukrainian Insurgent
>> =A0Army
>> > > commited atrocities on a large scale, in fact
>> killing
>> > Polish
>> > > civilians was the main activity of this
>> organization
>> > for
>> > > several months. Polish Home Army did commit
>> crimes,
>> > but it
>> > > never planned extermination of Polish minorities,
>> not
>> > to
>> > > mention carrying out such a plan.
>> > >
>> > > UIA is regarded as heroes in Western Ukraine
>> only,
>> > and
>> > > also there older generations call them bandits,
>> as
>> > this
>> > > organization terrorized Ukrainians, and also
>> killed
>> > > thousands of their fellow countrymen, those who
>> did
>> > not want
>> > > to cooperate/kill their Polish neighbors, just
>> look at
>> > the
>> > > fate of Bulba-Borovets. There are Ukrainian
>> sources
>> > which
>> > > support what I have written. I am shocked that
>> the
>> > great
>> > > nation of Ukraine cannot
>> =A0find different role models
>> > than
>> > > Roman Skuhevych, leader of Sluzba Bezpeky, one of
>> the
>> > most
>> > >
>> >=A0 murderous and fanatical organizations of WW2.
>> > >
>> > > It is interesting that the Ukrainian side
>> frequently
>> > > mentions atrocities commited by the Poles in
>> Volhynia,
>> > but I
>> > > have not seen a single description of these
>> massacres
>> > with a
>> > > date and a location.
>> > >
>> > > Tymek
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Piotr Konieczny
>> > > <piokon@post.pl>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > From: Piotr Konieczny <piokon@post.pl>
>> > >
>> =A0Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and
>> > > others.
>> > > To: "Wikipedia statistics"
>> > > <folks@wikipedometer.net>
>> > > Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 6:42 PM
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > O. G. wrote:
>> > > > But in spite of that, for millions of
>> Ukrainians
>> > UPA
>> > > always will be heroes, because they fought for
>> the
>> > freedom
>> > > of their country.
>> > >
>> > > One men's terrorist is another men's
>> hero,
>> > and
>> > > there is no denying that.
>> > > This is also an attitude of many Lithuanian
>> editors,
>> > and
>> > > presumably a
>> > > sentiment shared more widely among the eastern
>> > countries. I
>> > > can
>> > > understand and I cannot blame those who after
>> =A0Soviet
>> > > repression saw
>> > > German Nazis as liberators. They couldn't
>> know
>> > what was
>> > > really going on.
>> > >
>> > > Still, one should be able to admit one made a
>> mistake.
>> > Just
>> > > as Poles
>> > > should (and in some instances, did) apologize for
>> the
>> > > exceptional but
>> > > real massacres
>> >=A0 committed by AK and other Poles
>> > > (Jedwabne...), so should
>> > > those who threw their lot in with the Nazis and
>> worked
>> > with
>> > > them
>> > > apologize for all the suffering that they
>> caused.
>> > >
>> > > Bottom line is that there is no white and black,
>> there
>> > are
>> > > always
>> > >=A0 shades
>> > > of gray (but shades that can be sometimes
>> compared!),
>> > and
>> > > we have to
>> > > admit that many heroes were also, at the same
>> time,
>> > >
>> =A0criminals.
>> > >
>> > > > PS I wouldn't be surprised if Russia
>> were
>> > > clandestinely financing people in Poland bringing
>> this
>> > issue
>> > > over and over again. Just a guess...
>> > >
>> > > Good point, again. Let's not loose the sight
>> of
>> > the
>> > > bigger picture.
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Piotr Konieczny
>> > >
>> > > "The problem about Wikipedia is, that it
>> just
>> > works in
>> > > reality, not in
>> > > theory."
>> > >
>> > >
>> >=A0 _______________________________________________
>> > > Wikipedia statistics discussion list
>> > > folks@wikipedometer.net
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> __________________________________________________________________
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