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Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 20:35:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
In-Reply-To: <368514.22272.qm@web52505.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
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	Content preview:  Oh come on. Just write an article about Pacifikacija, 
	whatever it is. I will read it with interest. Also, if murdering almost
	1000 civilians in one day, as in Wola Ostrowiecka and Ostrowki, is a
	petty thing, then I do not really know what you see as worth mentioning.
	Is describing these events "anti-Ukrainian"? Is describing Holocaust
	"anti-German"? Tymek [...] 
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Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and others.
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	Content preview:  Oh come on. Just write an article about Pacifikacija,
	whatever it is. I will read it with interest. Also, if murdering almost
	1000 civilians in one day, as in Wola Ostrowiecka and Ostrowki, is a
	petty thing, then I do not really know what you see as worth mentioning.
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	"anti-German"? Tymek [...] 
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Oh come on. Just write an article about Pacifikacija, whatever it is. I wil=
l read it with interest. Also, if murdering almost 1000 civilians in one da=
y, as in Wola Ostrowiecka and Ostrowki, is a petty thing, then I do not rea=
lly know what you see as worth mentioning.=20
=A0
Is describing=A0these events=A0"anti-Ukrainian"? Is describing Holocaust "a=
nti-German"?
=A0
Tymek

--- On Sun, 8/2/09, O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca> wrote:


From: O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and others.
To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 10:11 PM



I knew someone will take my hyposis about Russian interest in this personal=
ly. Apparently you have a lot to learn about UPA and AK and their activitie=
s. No one is trying to whitewash the UPA, they did what they did. There is =
hardly a force in WWII who didn't commit objectionable acts. That goes for =
AK in particular, which massacred up to 20,000 Ukrainians in reprisal killi=
ngs. http://web.ku.edu/~eceurope/hist557/lect17.htm

This must be a thing with some Poles to piss and moan about every little th=
ing someone caused them. There are several anti-Ukrainian articles about UP=
A atrocities, The Volhyn Massacre is jus an example of the egregeous, one s=
ided anti-Ukrainian rant. If you are so concerned about the truth, why not =
write an article on Pacifikacija? Or this is not part of the Polish history=
? Or you conveniently prefer to turn a blind eye to it? Start from there...


--- On Mon, 8/3/09, piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and others.
> To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 9:34 AM
> Oh yes, I am one of these persons
> financed by the Russians. They=A0have paid me 50
> Belarusian rubles, since paying in Russian currency would be
> too obvious, and they wanted to keep it a secret.
> =A0
> OK, let us be serious here. Ukrainian Insurgent Army
> commited atrocities on a large scale, in fact killing Polish
> civilians was the main activity of this organization for
> several months. Polish Home Army did commit crimes, but it
> never planned extermination of Polish minorities, not to
> mention carrying out such a plan.=20
> =A0
> UIA is regarded as heroes in Western Ukraine only, and
> also there older generations call them bandits, as this
> organization terrorized Ukrainians, and also killed
> thousands of their fellow countrymen, those who did not want
> to cooperate/kill their Polish neighbors, just look at the
> fate of Bulba-Borovets. There are Ukrainian sources which
> support what I have written. I am shocked that the great
> nation of Ukraine cannot find different role models than
> Roman Skuhevych, leader of Sluzba Bezpeky, one of the most
> murderous and fanatical organizations of WW2.
> =A0
> It is interesting that the Ukrainian side frequently
> mentions atrocities commited by the Poles in Volhynia, but I
> have not seen a single description of these massacres with a
> date and a location.
> =A0
> Tymek
> =A0
>=20
> --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Piotr Konieczny
> <piokon@post.pl> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> From: Piotr Konieczny <piokon@post.pl>
> Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and
> others.
> To: "Wikipedia statistics"
> <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 6:42 PM
>=20
>=20
> O. G. wrote:
> > But in spite of that, for millions of Ukrainians UPA
> always will be heroes, because they fought for the freedom
> of their country.=20
>=20
> One men's terrorist is another men's hero, and
> there is no denying that.=20
> This is also an attitude of many Lithuanian editors, and
> presumably a=20
> sentiment shared more widely among the eastern countries. I
> can=20
> understand and I cannot blame those who after Soviet
> repression saw=20
> German Nazis as liberators. They couldn't know what was
> really going on.
>=20
> Still, one should be able to admit one made a mistake. Just
> as Poles=20
> should (and in some instances, did) apologize for the
> exceptional but=20
> real massacres committed by AK and other Poles
> (Jedwabne...), so should=20
> those who threw their lot in with the Nazis and worked with
> them=20
> apologize for all the suffering that they caused.
>=20
> Bottom line is that there is no white and black, there are
> always
>=A0 shades=20
> of gray (but shades that can be sometimes compared!), and
> we have to=20
> admit that many heroes were also, at the same time,
> criminals.
>=20
> > PS I wouldn't be surprised if Russia were
> clandestinely financing people in Poland bringing this issue
> over and over again. Just a guess...
>=20
> Good point, again. Let's not loose the sight of the
> bigger picture.
>=20
> --=20
> Piotr Konieczny
>=20
> "The problem about Wikipedia is, that it just works in
> reality, not in=20
> theory."
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> folks@wikipedometer.net
> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> folks@wikipedometer.net
> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>=20


=A0 =A0 =A0 _______________________________________________________________=
___
Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!=20

http://www.flickr.com/gift/

_______________________________________________
Wikipedia statistics discussion list
folks@wikipedometer.net
http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
=0A=0A=0A      
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<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><DIV>Oh come on. Just write an article about =
Pacifikacija, whatever it is. I will read it with interest. Also, if murder=
ing almost 1000 civilians in one day, as in Wola Ostrowiecka and Ostrowki, =
is a petty thing, then I do not really know what you see as worth mentionin=
g. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Is describing&nbsp;these events&nbsp;"anti-Ukrainian"? Is describing H=
olocaust "anti-German"?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Tymek<BR><BR>--- On <B>Sun, 8/2/09, O. G. <I>&lt;hillock@yahoo.ca&gt;<=
/I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid"><BR>From: O. G. &lt;hillock@yahoo.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: =
Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and others.<BR>To: "Wikipedia stati=
stics" &lt;folks@wikipedometer.net&gt;<BR>Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 10:=
11 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV class=3DplainMail><BR>I knew someone will take my hyposis about Russia=
n interest in this personally. Apparently you have a lot to learn about UPA=
 and AK and their activities. No one is trying to whitewash the UPA, they d=
id what they did. There is hardly a force in WWII who didn't commit objecti=
onable acts. That goes for AK in particular, which massacred up to 20,000 U=
krainians in reprisal killings. <A href=3D"http://web.ku.edu/~eceurope/hist=
557/lect17.htm" target=3D_blank>http://web.ku.edu/~eceurope/hist557/lect17.=
htm</A><BR><BR>This must be a thing with some Poles to piss and moan about =
every little thing someone caused them. There are several anti-Ukrainian ar=
ticles about UPA atrocities, The Volhyn Massacre is jus an example of the e=
gregeous, one sided anti-Ukrainian rant. If you are so concerned about the =
truth, why not write an article on Pacifikacija? Or this is not part of the=
 Polish history? Or you conveniently prefer to turn a blind eye to it?
 Start from there...<BR><BR><BR>--- On Mon, 8/3/09, piotr micula &lt;<A hre=
f=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dbasiaipiotr@yahoo.com" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:basiaipiotr@yahoo.com">basiaipiotr@yahoo.com</A>&gt; wrot=
e:<BR><BR>&gt; From: piotr micula &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo=
.com/mc/compose?to=3Dbasiaipiotr@yahoo.com" ymailto=3D"mailto:basiaipiotr@y=
ahoo.com">basiaipiotr@yahoo.com</A>&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! R=
adek , Piotrus, Tymek and others.<BR>&gt; To: "Wikipedia statistics" &lt;<A=
 href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer=
.net" ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</A=
>&gt;<BR>&gt; Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 9:34 AM<BR>&gt; Oh yes, I a=
m one of these persons<BR>&gt; financed by the Russians. They&nbsp;have pai=
d me 50<BR>&gt; Belarusian rubles, since paying in Russian currency would b=
e<BR>&gt; too obvious, and they wanted to keep it a secret.<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<=
BR>&gt; OK,
 let us be serious here. Ukrainian Insurgent Army<BR>&gt; commited atrociti=
es on a large scale, in fact killing Polish<BR>&gt; civilians was the main =
activity of this organization for<BR>&gt; several months. Polish Home Army =
did commit crimes, but it<BR>&gt; never planned extermination of Polish min=
orities, not to<BR>&gt; mention carrying out such a plan. <BR>&gt; &nbsp;<B=
R>&gt; UIA is regarded as heroes in Western Ukraine only, and<BR>&gt; also =
there older generations call them bandits, as this<BR>&gt; organization ter=
rorized Ukrainians, and also killed<BR>&gt; thousands of their fellow count=
rymen, those who did not want<BR>&gt; to cooperate/kill their Polish neighb=
ors, just look at the<BR>&gt; fate of Bulba-Borovets. There are Ukrainian s=
ources which<BR>&gt; support what I have written. I am shocked that the gre=
at<BR>&gt; nation of Ukraine cannot find different role models than<BR>&gt;=
 Roman Skuhevych, leader of Sluzba Bezpeky, one of the most<BR>&gt;
 murderous and fanatical organizations of WW2.<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; It is=
 interesting that the Ukrainian side frequently<BR>&gt; mentions atrocities=
 commited by the Poles in Volhynia, but I<BR>&gt; have not seen a single de=
scription of these massacres with a<BR>&gt; date and a location.<BR>&gt; &n=
bsp;<BR>&gt; Tymek<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Piot=
r Konieczny<BR>&gt; &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compos=
e?to=3Dpiokon@post.pl" ymailto=3D"mailto:piokon@post.pl">piokon@post.pl</A>=
&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; From: Piotr Konieczny &lt;<A href=3D"=
http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dpiokon@post.pl" ymailto=3D"m=
ailto:piokon@post.pl">piokon@post.pl</A>&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: [WPM] HEL=
P!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and<BR>&gt; others.<BR>&gt; To: "Wikipedia stati=
stics"<BR>&gt; &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=
=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net"
 ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</A>&gt;=
<BR>&gt; Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 6:42 PM<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; O.=
 G. wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; But in spite of that, for millions of Ukrainians UP=
A<BR>&gt; always will be heroes, because they fought for the freedom<BR>&gt=
; of their country. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; One men's terrorist is another men's =
hero, and<BR>&gt; there is no denying that. <BR>&gt; This is also an attitu=
de of many Lithuanian editors, and<BR>&gt; presumably a <BR>&gt; sentiment =
shared more widely among the eastern countries. I<BR>&gt; can <BR>&gt; unde=
rstand and I cannot blame those who after Soviet<BR>&gt; repression saw <BR=
>&gt; German Nazis as liberators. They couldn't know what was<BR>&gt; reall=
y going on.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Still, one should be able to admit one made a =
mistake. Just<BR>&gt; as Poles <BR>&gt; should (and in some instances, did)=
 apologize for the<BR>&gt; exceptional but <BR>&gt; real massacres
 committed by AK and other Poles<BR>&gt; (Jedwabne...), so should <BR>&gt; =
those who threw their lot in with the Nazis and worked with<BR>&gt; them <B=
R>&gt; apologize for all the suffering that they caused.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; B=
ottom line is that there is no white and black, there are<BR>&gt; always<BR=
>&gt;&nbsp; shades <BR>&gt; of gray (but shades that can be sometimes compa=
red!), and<BR>&gt; we have to <BR>&gt; admit that many heroes were also, at=
 the same time,<BR>&gt; criminals.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; PS I wouldn't be s=
urprised if Russia were<BR>&gt; clandestinely financing people in Poland br=
inging this issue<BR>&gt; over and over again. Just a guess...<BR>&gt; <BR>=
&gt; Good point, again. Let's not loose the sight of the<BR>&gt; bigger pic=
ture.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; -- <BR>&gt; Piotr Konieczny<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "The pr=
oblem about Wikipedia is, that it just works in<BR>&gt; reality, not in <BR=
>&gt; theory."<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;
 _______________________________________________<BR>&gt; Wikipedia statisti=
cs discussion list<BR>&gt; <A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/com=
pose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.ne=
t">folks@wikipedometer.net</A><BR>&gt; <A href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/=
cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D_blank>http://wikipedometer.net/cg=
i-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</A><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>&gt; -----Inline Attachment Follows-----<BR>&gt=
; <BR>&gt; _______________________________________________<BR>&gt; Wikipedi=
a statistics discussion list<BR>&gt; <A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.=
com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@wikipe=
dometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</A><BR>&gt; <A href=3D"http://wikipedo=
meter.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D_blank>http://wikipedome=
ter.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</A><BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp;
 __________________________________________________________________<BR>Look=
ing for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! <BR><BR><A href=3D"http:=
//www.flickr.com/gift/" target=3D_blank>http://www.flickr.com/gift/</A><BR>=
<BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Wikipedia statistics=
 discussion list<BR><A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=
=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folk=
s@wikipedometer.net</A><BR><A href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mail=
man/listinfo/folks" target=3D_blank>http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailma=
n/listinfo/folks</A><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table><br>=0A=0A=0A=
=0A      
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