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Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:04:24 +0200
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From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview: Tymek-why did you wrote that Siemaszko bought land
	from "Ukrainian peasant" ?
	http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=W%C5%82adys%C5%82aw_Siemaszko&diff=prev&oldid=309914807
	There is nothing about peasent in the article-only that land was bought
	from Ukrainians-nothing about their social status. [...] 
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Subject: Re: [WPM] Siemaszo/Kresowiacy/Putin/Russian manipulation
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	Content preview:  Tymek-why did you wrote that Siemaszko bought land from
	"Ukrainian peasant" ?
	http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=W%C5%82adys%C5%82aw_Siemaszko&diff=prev&oldid=309914807
	There is nothing about peasent in the article-only that land was bought
	from Ukrainians-nothing about their social status. [...] 
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Tymek-why did  you wrote that Siemaszko bought land from "Ukrainian peasant"
?
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=W%C5%82adys%C5%82aw_Siemaszko&diff=prev&oldid=309914807

There is nothing about peasent in the article-only that land was bought from
Ukrainians-nothing about their social status.

Also it's better to add the 1863 as it shows more clearly that Siemaszko
family was recently arrived.


2009/8/25 Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>

> It's clear what she means, and everybody that is a bit interested in
> politics can guess with ease what means that
> Poland should oppose "dangerous Ukrainian nationalism" and support
> "pro-Russian" forces in Ukraine.
> "the Poles should try to concentrate their efforts on Eastern Ukraine,
> whose population is not anti-Polish"
> Yes, indeed we know very well how not anti-Polish Putin's stooges are.
> Btw for all the propaganda talk about "centuries of Polish existance in
> Volhyn" Siemaszko herself claims that their
> family arrived in late XIX century in Ukrainian territories. Of course due
> to amount of hatred coming from this
> figure towards Ukraine she could be very well lying.
>
>
> 2009/8/25 piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
>
>  Molobo, why are you lying?
>>
>> In the interview presented by you, she never said she supported dividing
>> Ukraine. She says that instead of trying to appease anti-Polish and
>> anti-Russian Western Ukraine, the Poles should try to concentrate their
>> efforts on Eastern Ukraine, whose population is not anti-Polish, and which
>> does not support the UPA. She also says that it is Russia who has always
>> taken advantage on Polish-Ukrainian conflicts.
>>
>> I know not everybody here speaks English, so I do not really understand
>> why you have tried to lie here. Do you like cheat people like this on daily
>> basis too?
>>
>> Tymek
>>
>> --- On *Mon, 8/24/09, Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [WPM] Siemaszo/Kresowiacy/Putin/Russian manipulation
>> To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
>> Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 4:30 PM
>>
>>
>> Yes, based on knowledge available to him this was the best option.
>> Based on knowledge from today, the best option to survive would be
>> Finlandization in exchange for giving away most of Kresy to Soviets
>> and getting in return Silesia and most East Prussia after war with
>> Germany.  Although I don't believe such option was politically
>> possible.
>>
>> But getting back to track I just read an interesting interview with
>> Siemaszko daughter-as expected she supports dividing Ukraine,
>> supporting pro-Putin East Ukraine, and calls on Polish state to oppose
>> Ukrainian national awarness.
>> Is there article on Ewa Siemaszko were those interesting views can be
>> added ?
>> http://www.naszdziennik.pl/index.php?typ=my&dat=20081122&id=my21.txt
>>
>>
>> 2009/8/22 piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com<http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
>> >
>> >
>> > What choice did we have back in 1939? Do you think Jozef Beck did the
>> right thing allying Poland with Britain and France?
>> >
>> > Tymek
>> >
>> > --- On Sat, 8/22/09, Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com<http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=molobus@gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com<http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=molobus@gmail.com>
>> >
>> > Subject: Re: [WPM] Siemaszo/Kresowiacy/Putin/Russian manipulation
>> > To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net<http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=folks@wikipedometer.net>
>> >
>> > Date: Saturday, August 22, 2009, 8:37 AM
>> >
>> > The German nationalist identity is based on the idea of Drang nach Osten
>> and inferiority of Slavs and Balts. Do not delude yourself-any alliance with
>> German nationalists means walking willingly into gas furnace or into cattle
>> wagons.
>> >
>> > 2009/8/22 piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com<http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Digwuren, and this is what I mean. Poland should have ceded Gdansk to
>> Germany, as this city was no more needed by the Poles. We had Gdynia. Of
>> course the war would have began sooner or later, but some things would have
>> been different. Surely, these are speculations. But the fact is that Gdansk
>> was of no use to Poland in 1939.
>> >>
>> >> Now more and more Polish historians are speculating "what if ....
>> Poland had allied with Hitler back then". Until March 1939, both countries
>> actually were quite close, with frequent visits of top German diplomats in
>> Warsaw. Then the British began muddying the waters with guarantees they
>> never wanted to keep, and Warsaw changed the course. Again, these are
>> speculations, Hitler never kept his promises, but so did Britain and France,
>> not to mention Stalin of course.
>> >>
>> >> After all, Poland, Estonia and Latvia lost too much in the war, even
>> though Poland was nominally on the victorious side.
>> >>
>> >> Tymek
>> >>
>> >> --- On Sat, 8/22/09, Digwuren <digwuren@gmail.com<http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=digwuren@gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> From: Digwuren <digwuren@gmail.com<http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=digwuren@gmail.com>
>> >
>> >> Subject: Re: [WPM] Siemaszo/Kresowiacy/Putin/Russian manipulation
>> >> To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net<http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=folks@wikipedometer.net>
>> >
>> >> Date: Saturday, August 22, 2009, 2:22 AM
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 04:34, piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com<http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> It is blind stubborness of Polish elite in the 1930s that was one of
>> the reasons of WW2, and we have to admit it. After construction of Gdynia,
>> Poland did not need Gdansk any more. It was all about "honor" as Jozef Beck
>> said. We should have allowed Gdansk to become part of Germany, as the city's
>> population wished, and then wait how the events would turn out.
>> >>
>> >> It would not have satisfied Hitler nor discouraged Stalin.  Very
>> unlikely to have averted WWII; at most, it could have affected some details.
>> >> --
>> >> Andres Soolo
>> >>
>> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
>> >> folks@wikipedometer.net<http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=folks@wikipedometer.net>
>> >> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
>> >> folks@wikipedometer.net<http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=folks@wikipedometer.net>
>> >> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wikipedia statistics discussion list
>> > folks@wikipedometer.net<http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=folks@wikipedometer.net>
>> > http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wikipedia statistics discussion list
>> > folks@wikipedometer.net<http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=folks@wikipedometer.net>
>> > http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
>> folks@wikipedometer.net<http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=folks@wikipedometer.net>
>> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
>> folks@wikipedometer.net
>> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>>
>>
>

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Tymek-why did=A0 you wrote that Siemaszko bought land from &quot;Ukrainian =
peasant&quot; ?<br><a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=3DW=
%C5%82adys%C5%82aw_Siemaszko&amp;diff=3Dprev&amp;oldid=3D309914807">http://=
en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=3DW%C5%82adys%C5%82aw_Siemaszko&amp;diff=
=3Dprev&amp;oldid=3D309914807</a><br>
<br>There is nothing about peasent in the article-only that land was bought=
 from Ukrainians-nothing about their social status.<br><br>Also it&#39;s be=
tter to add the 1863 as it shows more clearly that Siemaszko family was rec=
ently arrived.<br>
<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2009/8/25 Molobo Molobo <span dir=3D"ltr=
">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:molobus@gmail.com">molobus@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>=
<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(2=
04, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
It&#39;s clear what she means, and everybody that is a bit interested in po=
litics can guess with ease what means that <br>Poland should oppose &quot;d=
angerous Ukrainian nationalism&quot; and support &quot;pro-Russian&quot; fo=
rces in Ukraine.<div class=3D"im">
<br>
&quot;the Poles should try to concentrate their efforts on Eastern Ukraine,=
 whose population is not anti-Polish&quot;<br></div>Yes, indeed we know ver=
y well how not anti-Polish Putin&#39;s stooges are.<br>Btw for all the prop=
aganda talk about &quot;centuries of Polish existance in Volhyn&quot; Siema=
szko herself claims that their <br>

family arrived in late XIX century in Ukrainian territories. Of course due =
to amount of hatred coming from this <br>figure towards Ukraine she could b=
e very well lying.<br><br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2009/8/25 piotr micula <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:basiaipiotr@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank">basiaipiotr@yah=
oo.com</a>&gt;</span><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margi=
n: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">


<table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0"><tbody><tr><td styl=
e=3D"font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font=
-weight: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-size-adjus=
t: inherit; font-stretch: inherit;" valign=3D"top">


<div>Molobo, why are you lying? </div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>In the interview presented by you, she never said she supported dividi=
ng Ukraine. She says that instead of trying to appease anti-Polish and anti=
-Russian Western Ukraine, the Poles should try to concentrate their efforts=
 on Eastern Ukraine, whose population is not anti-Polish, and which does no=
t support the UPA. She also says that it is Russia who has always taken adv=
antage on Polish-Ukrainian conflicts.</div>



<div>=A0</div>
<div>I know not everybody here speaks English, so I do not really understan=
d why you have tried to lie here. Do you like cheat people like this on dai=
ly basis too?</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Tymek<div><br><br>--- On <b>Mon, 8/24/09, Molobo Molobo <i>&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:molobus@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">molobus@gmail.com</a>&gt;</=
i></b> wrote:<br></div></div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); padding-left:=
 5px; margin-left: 5px;"><div><br>From: Molobo Molobo &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:molobus@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">molobus@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [WPM] Siemaszo/Kresowiacy/Putin/Russian manipulation<br>To: &q=
uot;Wikipedia statistics&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.ne=
t" target=3D"_blank">folks@wikipedometer.net</a>&gt;<br></div>Date: Monday,=
 August 24, 2009, 4:30 PM<div>


<div></div><div><br><br>
<div>Yes, based on knowledge available to him this was the best option.<br>=
Based on knowledge from today, the best option to survive would be<br>Finla=
ndization in exchange for giving away most of Kresy to Soviets<br>and getti=
ng in return Silesia and most East Prussia after war with<br>


Germany.=A0 Although I don&#39;t believe such option was politically<br>pos=
sible.<br><br>But getting back to track I just read an interesting intervie=
w with<br>Siemaszko daughter-as expected she supports dividing Ukraine,<br>


supporting pro-Putin East Ukraine, and calls on Polish state to oppose<br>U=
krainian national awarness.<br>Is there article on Ewa Siemaszko were those=
 interesting views can be added ?<br><a href=3D"http://www.naszdziennik.pl/=
index.php?typ=3Dmy&amp;dat=3D20081122&amp;id=3Dmy21.txt" target=3D"_blank">=
http://www.naszdziennik.pl/index.php?typ=3Dmy&amp;dat=3D20081122&amp;id=3Dm=
y21.txt</a><br>


<br><br>2009/8/22 piotr micula &lt;<a href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.co=
m/mc/compose?to=3Dbasiaipiotr@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank">basiaipiotr@yaho=
o.com</a>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt; What choice did we have back in 1939? Do you =
think Jozef Beck did the right thing allying Poland with Britain and France=
?<br>


&gt;<br>&gt; Tymek<br>&gt;<br>&gt; --- On Sat, 8/22/09, Molobo Molobo &lt;<=
a href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dmolobus@gmail.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">molobus@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&gt;<br>&gt; From: M=
olobo Molobo &lt;<a href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3D=
molobus@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">molobus@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>


&gt; Subject: Re: [WPM] Siemaszo/Kresowiacy/Putin/Russian manipulation<br>&=
gt; To: &quot;Wikipedia statistics&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"http://us.mc328.mai=
l.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" target=3D"_blank">folk=
s@wikipedometer.net</a>&gt;<br>


&gt; Date: Saturday,
 August 22, 2009, 8:37 AM<br>&gt;<br>&gt; The German nationalist identity i=
s based on the idea of Drang nach Osten and inferiority of Slavs and Balts.=
 Do not delude yourself-any alliance with German nationalists means walking=
 willingly into gas furnace or into cattle wagons.<br>


&gt;<br>&gt; 2009/8/22 piotr micula &lt;<a href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yah=
oo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dbasiaipiotr@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank">basiaipiotr=
@yahoo.com</a>&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; Digwuren, and this is what I mea=
n. Poland should have ceded Gdansk to Germany, as this city was no more nee=
ded by the Poles. We had Gdynia. Of course the war would have began sooner =
or later, but some things would have been different. Surely, these are spec=
ulations. But the fact is that Gdansk was of no use to Poland in 1939.<br>


&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; Now more and more Polish historians are speculating &q=
uot;what if .... Poland had allied with Hitler back then&quot;. Until March=
 1939,
 both countries actually were quite close, with frequent visits of top Germ=
an diplomats in Warsaw. Then the British began muddying the waters with gua=
rantees they never wanted to keep, and Warsaw changed the course. Again, th=
ese are speculations, Hitler never kept his promises, but so did Britain an=
d France, not to mention Stalin of course.<br>


&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; After all, Poland, Estonia and Latvia lost too much in=
 the war, even though Poland was nominally on the victorious side.<br>&gt;&=
gt;<br>&gt;&gt; Tymek<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; --- On Sat, 8/22/09, Digwuren=
 &lt;<a href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddigwuren@gma=
il.com" target=3D"_blank">digwuren@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>


&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; From: Digwuren &lt;<a href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yah=
oo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddigwuren@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">digwuren@gmail=
.com</a>&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [WPM] Siemaszo/Kresowiacy/Putin/Russi=
an
 manipulation<br>&gt;&gt; To: &quot;Wikipedia statistics&quot; &lt;<a href=
=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net"=
 target=3D"_blank">folks@wikipedometer.net</a>&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; Date: Saturd=
ay, August 22, 2009, 2:22 AM<br>


&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 04:34, piotr micula &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dbasiaipiotr@yahoo.com" =
target=3D"_blank">basiaipiotr@yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&=
gt;&gt;&gt; It is blind stubborness of Polish elite in the 1930s that was o=
ne of the reasons of WW2, and we have to admit it. After construction of Gd=
ynia, Poland did not need Gdansk any more. It was all about &quot;honor&quo=
t; as Jozef Beck said. We should have allowed Gdansk to become part of Germ=
any, as the city&#39;s population wished, and then wait how the events woul=
d turn out.<br>


&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; It would not have satisfied Hitler nor discouraged Sta=
lin.
 =A0Very unlikely to have averted WWII; at most, it could have affected som=
e details.<br>&gt;&gt; --<br>&gt;&gt; Andres Soolo<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; =
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; _______________=
________________________________<br>


&gt;&gt; Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br>&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http:/=
/us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" target=3D=
"_blank">folks@wikipedometer.net</a><br>&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://wikipedo=
meter.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D"_blank">http://wikipedo=
meter.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br>


&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; __________________________________________=
_____<br>&gt;&gt; Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br>&gt;&gt; <a href=
=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net"=
 target=3D"_blank">folks@wikipedometer.net</a><br>


&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks=
" target=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks=
</a><br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt; -----Inline Attachment Follows----=
-<br>


&gt;<br>&gt; _______________________________________________<br>&gt; Wikipe=
dia statistics discussion list<br>&gt; <a href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yaho=
o.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" target=3D"_blank">folks@wiki=
pedometer.net</a><br>


&gt; <a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a>=
<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt; _______________________________________________<br=
>


&gt; Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br>&gt; <a href=3D"http://us.mc32=
8.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" target=3D"_blank"=
>folks@wikipedometer.net</a><br>&gt; <a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cg=
i-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cg=
i-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br>


&gt;<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Wikipedia st=
atistics discussion list<br><a href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/co=
mpose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" target=3D"_blank">folks@wikipedometer.n=
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=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br>=
</div></div></div></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table><br>

      <br>_______________________________________________<br>
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<a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net" target=3D"_blank">folks@wikipedo=
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<br></blockquote></div></div></div><br>
</blockquote></div><br>

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