X-From_: folks-bounces@wikipedometer.net Mon Aug  3 19:58:25 2009
Return-Path: <folks-bounces@wikipedometer.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <707417.78602.qm@web52508.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <25890ca0908030707t3a0ad233r204225f54b13e09b@mail.gmail.com>
	<707417.78602.qm@web52508.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:58:05 -0500
Message-ID: <25890ca0908031058r3790ad8hc235122ff87c05c@mail.gmail.com>
From: radek szulga <rsszulga@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
X-Spam_score: -0.5
X-Spam_score_int: -4
X-Spam_bar: /
X-Spam_report: Spam detection software,
	running on the system "pakkun.mirky.net", has
	identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message
	has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or
	label similar future email.  If you have any questions, see
	the administrator of that system for details.
	Content preview:  Yes, I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree on
	this. Still, it's much better to discuss these things honestly here
	amongst ourselves rather than on Wiki talk pages where it can become an
	excuse for all sorts of provocations by people who'd use these kinds of
	disagreements against us. [...] 
	Content analysis details:   (-0.5 points, 5.0 required)
	pts rule name              description
	---- ----------------------
	--------------------------------------------------
	-2.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1%
	[score: 0.0000]
	0.5 HTML_40_50             BODY: Message is 40% to 50% HTML
	0.0 HTML_MESSAGE           BODY: HTML included in message
	1.7 DNS_FROM_RFC_POST      RBL: Envelope sender in
	postmaster.rfc-ignorant.org
	-0.1 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7-deb (2006-10-05) on 
	pakkun.mirky.net
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,
	DNS_FROM_RFC_POST,HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no 
	version=3.1.7-deb
Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and others.
X-BeenThere: folks@wikipedometer.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
List-Id: Wikipedia statistics <folks.wikipedometer.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks>,
	<mailto:folks-request@wikipedometer.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Post: <mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net>
List-Help: <mailto:folks-request@wikipedometer.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks>,
	<mailto:folks-request@wikipedometer.net?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6261887692714820829=="
Mime-version: 1.0
Sender: folks-bounces@wikipedometer.net
Errors-To: folks-bounces@wikipedometer.net
X-Spam_score: 0.1
X-Spam_score_int: 1
X-Spam_bar: /
X-Spam_report: Spam detection software, running on the system "pakkun.mirky.net", has
	identified this incoming email as possible spam.  The original message
	has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label
	similar future email.  If you have any questions, see
	the administrator of that system for details.
	Content preview:  Yes, I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree on
	this. Still, it's much better to discuss these things honestly here
	amongst ourselves rather than on Wiki talk pages where it can become an
	excuse for all sorts of provocations by people who'd use these kinds of
	disagreements against us. [...] 
	Content analysis details:   (0.1 points, 5.0 required)
	pts rule name              description
	---- ---------------------- --------------------------------------------------
	-2.6 BAYES_00               BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1%
	[score: 0.0000]
	0.5 HTML_40_50             BODY: Message is 40% to 50% HTML
	1.1 MIME_HTML_MOSTLY       BODY: Multipart message mostly text/html MIME
	0.0 HTML_MESSAGE           BODY: HTML included in message
	1.7 DNS_FROM_RFC_POST      RBL: Envelope sender in
	postmaster.rfc-ignorant.org
	-0.6 AWL                    AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list

--===============6261887692714820829==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e65879ae0dfa9f04704083ab

--0016e65879ae0dfa9f04704083ab
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yes, I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this.
Still, it's much better to discuss these things honestly here amongst
ourselves rather than on Wiki talk pages where it can become an excuse for
all sorts of provocations by people who'd use these kinds of disagreements
against us.

BTW, I think the partisan of whom I was thinking of earlier who was in fact
responsible for crimes against Ukrainian civilians was pseudonym "Bury", no=
t
"Kmicic" (just to clarify). I think he was NSZ.

Radek


2009/8/3 O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>

>
> I gave you the view of AK from the Ukrainian perspective. Yes there is a
> difference between UPA and AK in many things, including in numbers,
> organization and other things. But when it comes to the Volhynia tragedy
> Ukrainians don't draw the distinction between the two. There is innocent
> blood on some UPA members' hands so it is on AK members as well, who
> committed pretty much the same atrocities, albeit on the smaller scale. B=
oth
> are equally guilty, irrespective of how many thousands of civilians they
> killed from each side. I am aware that AK did other heroic deeds, so did =
the
> UPA, Volhynia is by far not the only thing it is remembered for. Yes, the=
y
> are different in many ways and many ways similar. You cannot compare the
> both, so be it. I can.
>
> --- On Mon, 8/3/09, radek szulga <rsszulga@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > From: radek szulga <rsszulga@gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and others.
> > To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> > Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 9:07 PM
> > The thing is, neither Operation
> > Wisla nor the 1930 "Pacification" have anything to
> > do with the AK.
> > So with regard to AK please note that a lot of the
> > alleged crimes:
> > *happened according to Communist propaganda or are
> > sourced to Soviet partisans operating in Ukraine and
> > Belarus. It is also important to remember that communist
> > propaganda tried to smear BOTH the AK and the UPA.
> > Oftentimes crimes which were perpetrated by common bandits,
> > or even the Communistis themselves were attributed to the AK
> > or UPA. The difference is that the massacres that happened
> > in Volhynia and E. Galicia have been verified independently
> > where as a lot of the "AK did this..." stuff can
> > be traced ONLY to communist sources.
> >
> > *some of these crimes were carried out by
> > "rogue" AK units or by bandit organizations which
> > called themselves the AK but were not in fact associated
> > with the organization. The name of the most notorious
> > commander here - a guy who got kicked out of the AK and
> > court martialed in absentia for being too trigger happy -
> > escapes me at the moment (I wanna say Kmicic, but there
> > were, unsuprisingly, several partisan commanders who called
> > themselves Kmicic) - but his case was typical. The important
> > point is that the atrocities that happened, were 1) on a
> > much smaller scale then the Volhynia massacres, 2) were in
> > fact carried out by non-AK soldiers and in direct
> > contravention of AK's command orders - unlike UPA.
> >
> > *Out of those 20,000 mentioned in the Cienciala
> > article a lot of them were members of UPA itself who died
> > when the Poles of Volhynia decided to defend
> > themselves.
> >
> > This kind of moral equivocation is very dangerous. For
> > example, some American forces/soldiers in World War Two
> > executed their German POWs and committed a few atrocities,
> > but that does not justify comparing the American Army in
> > WWII to say, the SS, or the Werhmacht for that matter -
> > because these kinds of actions were the exception not the
> > rule. Same with AK. If you have an organization of 800,000
> > people, just from point of view of probability and
> > statistics at least some small portion of this 800,000 is
> > going to commit criminal acts. But that's totally
> > different than an entire organization - UPA-Bandera -
> > committing criminal acts.
> >
> >
> > Another thing that should give one pause is the fact
> > that - as you say - the issue of UPA is very divisive in
> > Ukraine (since they also targeted Ukrainians whom they
> > judged not to be extreme enough). But AK in Poland, some
> > left over commies aside, is not controversial or divisive
> > and is widely respected. I think maybe the situation with
> > the NSZ in Poland would be similar (freedom fighters, but
> > also often chauvinists and occasionally murderers).
> >
> >
> > Basically, if you want to talk about Operation Wisla
> > and the interwar repressions against Ukrainians by the
> > Polish government you're on much stronger ground. But,
> > again, comparing AK to UPA is inappropriate.
> >
> >
> > Radek
> >
> >
> > 2009/8/3 O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>
> >
> >
> > True. Except operation Wisla was not part of the population
> > exchange and Ukrainians were simply evicted, dispersed and
> > resettled in the newly acquired territories in the west of
> > the country. All that was accompanied by killings of those
> > who resisted or was suspected of subversive activities.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
> >
> > > Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and
> > others.
> > > To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> > > Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:57 AM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Well, since the Ukrainian population
> > > was reckognised as part of Soviet
> > > Union, and Soviet Union did sign an agreement with
> > > Communists in
> > > Poland about the population change, this would make it
> > a
> >
> > > population
> > > exchange between two states. The manner or methods
> > used
> > > wouldn't
> > > really change that.
> > >
> > > 2009/8/3 O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>:
> >
> > > >
> > > > There is no comparison between population
> > exchanges
> > > and operation Wisla. Population exchanges were in many
> > cases
> > > voluntary, especially with respect to Poles getting
> > away
> > > from the Stalin's paradise. During operation Wisla
> > they
> >
> > > evicted people from their homes, killing many in the
> > > process. No comparison.
> > > >
> > > > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > >
> > > >> From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
> > > >> Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus,
> > Tymek
> > > and others.
> > > >> To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> >
> > > >> Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:25 AM
> > > >> " Is resettlement the same as
> > > >> ethnical cleansing?"
> > > >> Some scholars do indeed term it as such.
> > Although
> >
> > > just
> > > >> like
> > > >> resettlement of Poles from Soviet Union
> > under
> > > international
> > > >> agreements
> > > >> I would not term it myself it in such way.
> > > >>
> >
> > > >> 2009/8/3 piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>:
> > > >> > Is resettlement the same as ethnical
> > > cleansing?
> > > >> Operation Wisla was shameful
> >
> > > >> > and Polish govt rightfully apologized
> > for
> > > it.
> > > >> Nevertheless, it was not a
> > > >> > mass murder of Ukrainians and you know
> > it.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Tymek
> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > --- On Sun, 8/2/09, O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > From: O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>
> >
> > > >> > Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek ,
> > Piotrus,
> > > Tymek and
> > > >> others.
> > > >> > To: "Wikipedia statistics"
> > <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> >
> > > >> > Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 10:57 PM
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Gee, what a question! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wis
> =C5=82a
> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >> From: piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
> >
> > > >> >> Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek ,
> > > Piotrus, Tymek
> > > >> and others.
> > > >> >> To: "Wikipedia statistics"
> > <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> >
> > > >> >> Received: Monday, August 3, 2009,
> > 10:36
> > > AM
> > > >> >> Hillock, let us be realistic.
> > > >> >> When did Polish government
> > ethnically
> > > cleanse the
> > > >> >> Ukrainians?
> >
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Tymek
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> --- On Sun, 8/2/09, O. G.
> > > >> >> <hillock@yahoo.ca>
> >
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> From: O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>
> > > >> >> Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek ,
> >
> > > Piotrus, Tymek
> > > >> and
> > > >> >> others.
> > > >> >> To: "Wikipedia
> > statistics"
> > > >> >> <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> >
> > > >> >> Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 10:20
> > PM
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> I already wrote, UPA is not
> > recognized by
> > > the
> >
> > > >> Ukrainian
> > > >> >> state. It has nothing to apologize
> > for.
> > > Unlike the
> > > >> POLISH
> > > >> >> STATE that subjugated, assimilated,
> > > persecuted
> > > >> and
> >
> > > >> >> ethnically clensed Ukrainians.
> > > Apologizing for the
> > > >> deeds of
> > > >> >> UPA by the state officials would be
> > > tantamount to
> > > >> state
> > > >> >> recognizing it and as such it is a
> > very
> >
> > > divisive
> > > >> issue, all
> > > >> >> politicians shy from it. And if it
> > > happened, I
> > > >> should hope
> > > >> >> Poles will appologize for the
> > atrocities
> >
> > > commited
> > > >> by the AK.
> > > >> >> For the life of me I cannot see what
> > good
> > > it will
> > > >> bring?!!
> > > >> >> All this moaning and going through
> > > decomposed
> >
> > > >> bodies and
> > > >> >> mutual accusations does nothing,
> > but
> > > devides.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> --- On Mon, 8/3/09, piotr micula
> > <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
> >
> > > >> >> wrote:
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> > From: piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
> > > >> >> > Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek
> > ,
> >
> > > Piotrus,
> > > >> Tymek and
> > > >> >> others.
> > > >> >> > To: "Wikipedia
> > statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> >
> > > >> >> > Received: Monday, August 3,
> > 2009,
> > > 9:42 AM
> > > >> >> > For starters, there has been
> > no
> > > >> >> > single apology from the
> > Ukrainian
> > > side. What
> >
> > > >> is more
> > > >> >> > important, 80% bones of Poles
> > > murdered in
> > > >> >> Volhynia have
> > > >> >> > not been properly buried, and
> > lie
> > > there in
> >
> > > >> Volhynian
> > > >> >> and
> > > >> >> > Podolian fields, among
> > villages
> > > burned to the
> > > >> ground.
> > > >> >> > Don't you think that
> > Ukrainian
> >
> > > authorities
> > > >> should
> > > >> >> at
> > > >> >> > least give permission for
> > > exhumations of
> > > >> these
> > > >> >> remains?
> > > >> >> >
> >
> > > >> >> > It is not about playing UPA
> > card. It
> > > is
> > > >> about
> > > >> >> > remembering history and those
> > who
> > > were
> > > >> murdered for
> > > >> >> nothing.
> >
> > > >> >> > Should we all sweep this
> > > >> >>  topic under the carpet and forget
> > > >> >> > it forever? If so, let us erase
> > all
> > > history
> > > >> articles
> >
> > > >> >> on
> > > >> >> > Wikipedia, and demand closing
> > of all
> > > museums,
> > > >> with
> > > >> >> Museum of
> > > >> >> > Holocaust as first.
> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > Tymek
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > --- On Sun, 8/2/09, O. G.
> > > >> >> > <hillock@yahoo.ca>
> >
> > > >> >> wrote:
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > From: O. G. <hillock@yahoo.ca>
> > > >> >> > Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek
> > ,
> >
> > > Piotrus,
> > > >> Tymek and
> > > >> >> > others.
> > > >> >> > To: "Wikipedia
> > statistics"
> > > >> >> > <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> >
> > > >> >> > Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009,
> > 8:33
> > > PM
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > I was just wondering
> >
> > > >> >>  how many apologizing does it take
> > to
> > > >> >> > put this thing behind us?
> > People
> > > keep
> > > >> forgetting that
> > > >> >> issue
> > > >> >> > of UPA is very divisive in
> > Ukraine
> >
> > > and it
> > > >> runs along
> > > >> >> > linguistic and geopolitical
> > > divisions as
> > > >> well. There
> > > >> >> are
> > > >> >> > millions of Ukrainians who
> > will
> >
> > > always regard
> > > >> UPA as
> > > >> >> heroes
> > > >> >> > in spite of everything, just
> > because
> > > in
> > > >> Western
> > > >> >> Ukraine
> > > >> >> > every other family was
> > associated
> >
> > > with them
> > > >> in some
> > > >> >> way or
> > > >> >> > suffered collective punishment
> > for
> > > their
> > > >> activities.
> > > >> >> Yet on
> > > >> >> > the state level UPA is still
> > not
> >
> > > recognized
> > > >> as the
> > > >> >> WWII
> > > >> >> > participant. I am from central
> > > Ukraine and
> > > >> have
> > > >> >> nothing to
> > > >> >> > do with UPA but still consider
> > them
> >
> > > heroes
> > > >> just as the
> > > >> >> Red
> > > >> >> > Army vets, because millions of
> > my
> > > compatriots
> > > >> do so on
> > > >> >> both
> > > >> >> > sides of the divide. There are
> >
> > > different
> > > >> views on this
> > > >> >> in
> > > >> >> > every family, people don't
> > bring it
> > > up in
> > > >> company.
> > > >> >> It is
> >
> > > >> >> > EXTREMELY divisive and
> > volatile
> > > topic,
> > > >> interference
> > > >> >> of
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >>  outsiders in this brings it to
> > the
> >
> > > whole new
> > > >> level. I
> > > >> >> only
> > > >> >> > hope Poland won't
> > > >> >> >  be playing the UPA card
> > > >> >> > as Russia has for so many
> > years. It
> >
> > > will be
> > > >> >> devastating for
> > > >> >> > both peoples.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Piotr
> > Konieczny
> > > <piokon@post.pl>
> >
> > > >> >> > wrote:
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > > From: Piotr Konieczny
> > <piokon@post.pl>
> > > >> >> > > Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!!
> > Radek
> > > ,
> >
> > > >> Piotrus, Tymek
> > > >> >> and
> > > >> >> > others.
> > > >> >> > > To: "Wikipedia
> > statistics"
> > > <folks@wikipedometer.net>
> >
> > > >> >> > > Received: Monday, August
> > 3,
> > > 2009, 6:42
> > > >> AM
> > > >> >> > > O. G. wrote:
> > > >> >> > > > But in
> > > >> >>  spite of that, for millions of
> >
> > > Ukrainians
> > > >> >> > UPA
> > > >> >> > > always will be heroes,
> > because
> > > they
> > > >> fought for
> > > >> >> the
> > > >> >> > freedom
> >
> > > >> >> > > of their country.
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > > One men's
> > > >> >> >  terrorist is another
> > men's hero,
> > > and
> >
> > > >> there
> > > >> >> is no
> > > >> >> > > denying that.
> > > >> >> > > This is also an attitude
> > of
> > > many
> > > >> Lithuanian
> > > >> >> editors,
> >
> > > >> >> > and
> > > >> >> > > presumably a
> > > >> >> > > sentiment shared more
> > widely
> > > among the
> > > >> eastern
> > > >> >> > countries. I
> >
> > > >> >> > > can
> > > >> >> > > understand and I cannot
> > blame
> > > those who
> > > >> after
> > > >> >> Soviet
> > > >> >> > > repression saw
> >
> > > >> >> > > German Nazis as
> > liberators.
> > > They
> > > >> couldn't
> > > >> >> know
> > > >> >> > what was
> > > >> >> > > really going on.
> >
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > > Still, one should be able
> > to
> > > admit one
> > > >> made a
> > > >> >> mistake.
> > > >> >> > Just
> > > >> >> > > as Poles
> >
> > > >> >> > > should (and in some
> > instances,
> > > did)
> > > >> apologize for
> > > >> >> the
> > > >> >> > > exceptional but
> > > >> >> > > real massacres committed
> > by AK
> >
> > > and
> > > >> >>  other Poles
> > > >> >> > > (Jedwabne...), so should
> > > >> >> > > those who threw their lot
> > in
> > > with the
> > > >> Nazis and
> >
> > > >> >> worked
> > > >> >> > with
> > > >> >> > > them
> > > >> >> > > apologize for all the
> > suffering
> > > that
> > > >> they
> > > >> >> caused.
> >
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > > Bottom line is that there
> > is no
> > > white
> > > >> and black,
> > > >> >> there
> > > >> >> > are
> > > >> >> > > always shades
> >
> > > >> >> > > of gray (but shades that
> > can
> > > be
> > > >> >> >  sometimes compared!), and
> > > >> >> > > we have to
> > > >> >> > > admit that many heroes
> > were
> >
> > > also, at the
> > > >> same
> > > >> >> time,
> > > >> >> > > criminals.
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > > > PS I wouldn't be
> > surprised
> >
> > > if
> > > >> Russia
> > > >> >> were
> > > >> >> > > clandestinely financing
> > people
> > > in Poland
> > > >> bringing
> > > >> >> this
> > > >> >> > issue
> >
> > > >> >> > > over and over again. Just
> > a
> > > guess...
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > > Good point, again.
> > Let's not
> > > loose the
> > > >> sight
> >
> > > >> >> of
> > > >> >> > the bigger
> > > >> >> > > picture.
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > > --
> > > >> >> > > Piotr Konieczny
> >
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > > "The problem about
> > > >> >>  Wikipedia is, that it just
> > > >> >> > works in
> > > >> >> > > reality, not in
> >
> > > >> >> > > theory."
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > > >> >> > > Wikipedia statistics
> > discussion
> >
> > > list
> > > >> >> > > folks@wikipedometer.net
> > > >> >> > > http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
> >
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >>
> > > >>
> > >
> > __________________________________________________________________
> >
> > > >> >> > Get the name you've always
> > wanted
> > > @ymail.com
> > > >> or
> > > >> >> > @rocketmail.com! Go to http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/jacko/
> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > > >> >> > Wikipedia statistics
> > discussion
> > > >> >>  list
> >
> > > >> >> > folks@wikipedometer.net
> > > >> >> > http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > -----Inline Attachment
> > Follows-----
> > > >> >> >
> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > > >> >> > Wikipedia statistics
> > discussion
> > > list
> > > >> >> > folks@wikipedometer.net
> >
> > > >> >> > http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >>
> >
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >>
> > >
> > __________________________________________________________________
> > > >> >> Yahoo! Canada Toolbar:
> > > >> >>  Search from anywhere on the web,
> > and
> >
> > > >> bookmark your
> > > >> >> favourite sites. Download it now
> > > >> >> http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.
> > > >> >>
> >
> > > >> >>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > >> >> Wikipedia statistics discussion
> > list
> > > >> >> folks@wikipedometer.net
> >
> > > >> >> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> >
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > >> >> Wikipedia statistics discussion
> > list
> >
> > > >> >> folks@wikipedometer.net
> > > >> >> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
> >
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > >
> >    __________________________________________________________________
> > > >> > The new Internet Explorer(R) 8 -
> > Faster,
> >
> > > safer,
> > > >> easier.  Optimized for Yahoo!
> > > >> > Get it Now for Free! at
> http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/
> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > >> > Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> > > >> > folks@wikipedometer.net
> >
> > > >> > http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > >> > Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> > > >> > folks@wikipedometer.net
> > > >> > http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > > >> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> > > >> folks@wikipedometer.net
> >
> > > >> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >  __________________________________________________________________
> >
> > > > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of
> > > Flickr!
> > > >
> > > > http://www.flickr.com/gift/
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> >
> > > > Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> > > > folks@wikipedometer.net
> > > > http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
> >
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> > > folks@wikipedometer.net
> > > http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  __________________________________________________________________
> > The new Internet Explorer=C2=AE 8 - Faster, safer, easier.
> >  Optimized for Yahoo!  Get it Now for Free! at
> http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> > folks@wikipedometer.net
> > http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> > folks@wikipedometer.net
> > http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
> >
>
>
>      __________________________________________________________________
> Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo=
!
> Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> folks@wikipedometer.net
> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>

--0016e65879ae0dfa9f04704083ab
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-2
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yes, I think we&#39;re gonna have to agree to disagree on this.<br>Still, i=
t&#39;s much better to discuss these things honestly here amongst ourselves=
 rather than on Wiki talk pages where it can become an excuse for all sorts=
 of provocations by people who&#39;d use these kinds of disagreements again=
st us.<br>
<br>BTW, I think the partisan of whom I was thinking of earlier who was in =
fact responsible for crimes against Ukrainian civilians was pseudonym &quot=
;Bury&quot;, not &quot;Kmicic&quot; (just to clarify). I think he was NSZ.<=
br>
<br>Radek<br><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2009/8/3 O. G. <span dir=3D=
"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hillock@yahoo.ca">hillock@yahoo.ca</a>&gt;</spa=
n><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb=
(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
I gave you the view of AK from the Ukrainian perspective. Yes there is a di=
fference between UPA and AK in many things, including in numbers, organizat=
ion and other things. But when it comes to the Volhynia tragedy Ukrainians =
don&#39;t draw the distinction between the two. There is innocent blood on =
some UPA members&#39; hands so it is on AK members as well, who committed p=
retty much the same atrocities, albeit on the smaller scale. Both are equal=
ly guilty, irrespective of how many thousands of civilians they killed from=
 each side. I am aware that AK did other heroic deeds, so did the UPA, Volh=
ynia is by far not the only thing it is remembered for. Yes, they are diffe=
rent in many ways and many ways similar. You cannot compare the both, so be=
 it. I can.<br>

<div class=3D"im"><br>
--- On Mon, 8/3/09, radek szulga &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rsszulga@gmail.com">=
rsszulga@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>&gt; From: radek szulga &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rsszulga@gmail.com">rss=
zulga@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<div class=3D"im">&gt; Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and=
 others.<br>
&gt; To: &quot;Wikipedia statistics&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikip=
edometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a>&gt;<br>
</div>&gt; Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 9:07 PM<br>
<div><div></div><div class=3D"h5">&gt; The thing is, neither Operation<br>
&gt; Wisla nor the 1930 &quot;Pacification&quot; have anything to<br>
&gt; do with the AK.<br>
&gt; So with regard to AK please note that a lot of the<br>
&gt; alleged crimes:<br>
&gt; *happened according to Communist propaganda or are<br>
&gt; sourced to Soviet partisans operating in Ukraine and<br>
&gt; Belarus. It is also important to remember that communist<br>
&gt; propaganda tried to smear BOTH the AK and the UPA.<br>
&gt; Oftentimes crimes which were perpetrated by common bandits,<br>
&gt; or even the Communistis themselves were attributed to the AK<br>
&gt; or UPA. The difference is that the massacres that happened<br>
&gt; in Volhynia and E. Galicia have been verified independently<br>
&gt; where as a lot of the &quot;AK did this...&quot; stuff can<br>
&gt; be traced ONLY to communist sources.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; *some of these crimes were carried out by<br>
&gt; &quot;rogue&quot; AK units or by bandit organizations which<br>
&gt; called themselves the AK but were not in fact associated<br>
&gt; with the organization. The name of the most notorious<br>
&gt; commander here - a guy who got kicked out of the AK and<br>
&gt; court martialed in absentia for being too trigger happy -<br>
&gt; escapes me at the moment (I wanna say Kmicic, but there<br>
&gt; were, unsuprisingly, several partisan commanders who called<br>
&gt; themselves Kmicic) - but his case was typical. The important<br>
&gt; point is that the atrocities that happened, were 1) on a<br>
&gt; much smaller scale then the Volhynia massacres, 2) were in<br>
&gt; fact carried out by non-AK soldiers and in direct<br>
&gt; contravention of AK&#39;s command orders - unlike UPA.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; *Out of those 20,000 mentioned in the Cienciala<br>
&gt; article a lot of them were members of UPA itself who died<br>
&gt; when the Poles of Volhynia decided to defend<br>
&gt; themselves.<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; This kind of moral equivocation is very dangerous. For<br>
&gt; example, some American forces/soldiers in World War Two<br>
&gt; executed their German POWs and committed a few atrocities,&nbsp;<br>
&gt; but that does not justify comparing the American Army in<br>
&gt; WWII to say, the SS, or the Werhmacht for that matter -<br>
&gt; because these kinds of actions were the exception not the<br>
&gt; rule. Same with AK. If you have an organization of 800,000<br>
&gt; people, just from point of view of probability and<br>
&gt; statistics at least some small portion of this 800,000 is<br>
&gt; going to commit criminal acts. But that&#39;s totally<br>
&gt; different than an entire organization - UPA-Bandera -<br>
&gt; committing criminal acts.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; Another thing that should give one pause is the fact<br>
&gt; that - as you&nbsp;say - the issue of UPA is very divisive in<br>
&gt; Ukraine (since they also targeted Ukrainians whom they<br>
&gt; judged not to be extreme enough). But AK in Poland, some<br>
&gt; left over commies aside, is not controversial or divisive<br>
&gt; and is widely respected. I think maybe the situation with<br>
&gt; the NSZ in Poland would be similar (freedom fighters, but<br>
&gt; also often chauvinists and occasionally murderers).<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; Basically, if you want to talk about Operation Wisla<br>
&gt; and the interwar repressions against Ukrainians by the<br>
&gt; Polish government you&#39;re on much stronger ground. But,<br>
&gt; again, comparing AK to UPA is inappropriate.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; Radek<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 2009/8/3 O. G. &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hillock@yahoo.ca">hillock@yahoo.c=
a</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; True. Except operation Wisla was not part of the population<br>
&gt; exchange and Ukrainians were simply evicted, dispersed and<br>
&gt; resettled in the newly acquired territories in the west of<br>
&gt; the country. All that was accompanied by killings of those<br>
&gt; who resisted or was suspected of subversive activities.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Molobo Molobo &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:molobus@gmail.=
com">molobus@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; From: Molobo Molobo &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:molobus@gmail.com">molo=
bus@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus, Tymek and<br>
&gt; others.<br>
&gt; &gt; To: &quot;Wikipedia statistics&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:folks@=
wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:57 AM<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Well, since the Ukrainian population<br>
&gt; &gt; was reckognised as part of Soviet<br>
&gt; &gt; Union, and Soviet Union did sign an agreement with<br>
&gt; &gt; Communists in<br>
&gt; &gt; Poland about the population change, this would make it<br>
&gt; a<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; population<br>
&gt; &gt; exchange between two states. The manner or methods<br>
&gt; used<br>
&gt; &gt; wouldn&#39;t<br>
&gt; &gt; really change that.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; 2009/8/3 O. G. &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hillock@yahoo.ca">hillock@ya=
hoo.ca</a>&gt;:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; There is no comparison between population<br>
&gt; exchanges<br>
&gt; &gt; and operation Wisla. Population exchanges were in many<br>
&gt; cases<br>
&gt; &gt; voluntary, especially with respect to Poles getting<br>
&gt; away<br>
&gt; &gt; from the Stalin&#39;s paradise. During operation Wisla<br>
&gt; they<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; evicted people from their homes, killing many in the<br>
&gt; &gt; process. No comparison.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Molobo Molobo &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:molo=
bus@gmail.com">molobus@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; From: Molobo Molobo &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:molobus@gmail.=
com">molobus@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek , Piotrus,<br>
&gt; Tymek<br>
&gt; &gt; and others.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; To: &quot;Wikipedia statistics&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Received: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:25 AM<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &quot; Is resettlement the same as<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; ethnical cleansing?&quot;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Some scholars do indeed term it as such.<br>
&gt; Although<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; just<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; like<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; resettlement of Poles from Soviet Union<br>
&gt; under<br>
&gt; &gt; international<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; agreements<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I would not term it myself it in such way.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; 2009/8/3 piotr micula &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:basiaipiotr@=
yahoo.com">basiaipiotr@yahoo.com</a>&gt;:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Is resettlement the same as ethnical<br>
&gt; &gt; cleansing?<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Operation Wisla was shameful<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; and Polish govt rightfully apologized<br>
&gt; for<br>
&gt; &gt; it.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Nevertheless, it was not a<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; mass murder of Ukrainians and you know<br>
&gt; it.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Tymek<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; --- On Sun, 8/2/09, O. G. &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hil=
lock@yahoo.ca">hillock@yahoo.ca</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; From: O. G. &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hillock@yahoo.ca"=
>hillock@yahoo.ca</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek ,<br>
&gt; Piotrus,<br>
&gt; &gt; Tymek and<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; others.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; To: &quot;Wikipedia statistics&quot;<br>
&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net=
</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 10:57 PM<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Gee, what a question! <a href=3D"http://en.wikipedi=
a.org/wiki/Operation_Wis" target=3D"_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Op=
eration_Wis</a>=B3a<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; --- On Mon, 8/3/09, piotr micula &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:basiaipiotr@yahoo.com">basiaipiotr@yahoo.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; From: piotr micula &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:basiai=
piotr@yahoo.com">basiaipiotr@yahoo.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek ,<br>
&gt; &gt; Piotrus, Tymek<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; and others.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; To: &quot;Wikipedia statistics&quot;<br>
&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net=
</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Received: Monday, August 3, 2009,<br>
&gt; 10:36<br>
&gt; &gt; AM<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Hillock, let us be realistic.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; When did Polish government<br>
&gt; ethnically<br>
&gt; &gt; cleanse the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Ukrainians?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Tymek<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; --- On Sun, 8/2/09, O. G.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hillock@yahoo.ca">hillock=
@yahoo.ca</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; From: O. G. &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hillock@yahoo=
.ca">hillock@yahoo.ca</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek ,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Piotrus, Tymek<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; and<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; others.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; To: &quot;Wikipedia<br>
&gt; statistics&quot;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">=
folks@wikipedometer.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 10:20<br>
&gt; PM<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; I already wrote, UPA is not<br>
&gt; recognized by<br>
&gt; &gt; the<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Ukrainian<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; state. It has nothing to apologize<br>
&gt; for.<br>
&gt; &gt; Unlike the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; POLISH<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; STATE that subjugated, assimilated,<br>
&gt; &gt; persecuted<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; and<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; ethnically clensed Ukrainians.<br>
&gt; &gt; Apologizing for the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; deeds of<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; UPA by the state officials would be<br>
&gt; &gt; tantamount to<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; state<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; recognizing it and as such it is a<br>
&gt; very<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; divisive<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; issue, all<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; politicians shy from it. And if it<br>
&gt; &gt; happened, I<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; should hope<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Poles will appologize for the<br>
&gt; atrocities<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; commited<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; by the AK.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; For the life of me I cannot see what<br>
&gt; good<br>
&gt; &gt; it will<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; bring?!!<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; All this moaning and going through<br>
&gt; &gt; decomposed<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; bodies and<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; mutual accusations does nothing,<br>
&gt; but<br>
&gt; &gt; devides.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; --- On Mon, 8/3/09, piotr micula<br>
&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:basiaipiotr@yahoo.com">basiaipiotr@yahoo.com</a>=
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; From: piotr micula &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:b=
asiaipiotr@yahoo.com">basiaipiotr@yahoo.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek<br>
&gt; ,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Piotrus,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Tymek and<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; others.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; To: &quot;Wikipedia<br>
&gt; statistics&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@=
wikipedometer.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Received: Monday, August 3,<br>
&gt; 2009,<br>
&gt; &gt; 9:42 AM<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; For starters, there has been<br>
&gt; no<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; single apology from the<br>
&gt; Ukrainian<br>
&gt; &gt; side. What<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; is more<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; important, 80% bones of Poles<br>
&gt; &gt; murdered in<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Volhynia have<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; not been properly buried, and<br>
&gt; lie<br>
&gt; &gt; there in<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Volhynian<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; and<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Podolian fields, among<br>
&gt; villages<br>
&gt; &gt; burned to the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; ground.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Don&#39;t you think that<br>
&gt; Ukrainian<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; authorities<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; should<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; at<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; least give permission for<br>
&gt; &gt; exhumations of<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; these<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; remains?<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; It is not about playing UPA<br>
&gt; card. It<br>
&gt; &gt; is<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; about<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; remembering history and those<br>
&gt; who<br>
&gt; &gt; were<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; murdered for<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; nothing.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Should we all sweep this<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; topic under the carpet and forget<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; it forever? If so, let us erase<br>
&gt; all<br>
&gt; &gt; history<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; articles<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; on<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Wikipedia, and demand closing<br>
&gt; of all<br>
&gt; &gt; museums,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; with<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Museum of<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Holocaust as first.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Tymek<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; --- On Sun, 8/2/09, O. G.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hillock@yahoo.ca">hi=
llock@yahoo.ca</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; From: O. G. &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hillock@=
yahoo.ca">hillock@yahoo.ca</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!! Radek<br>
&gt; ,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Piotrus,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Tymek and<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; others.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; To: &quot;Wikipedia<br>
&gt; statistics&quot;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.=
net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009,<br>
&gt; 8:33<br>
&gt; &gt; PM<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; I was just wondering<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; how many apologizing does it take<br>
&gt; to<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; put this thing behind us?<br>
&gt; People<br>
&gt; &gt; keep<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; forgetting that<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; issue<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; of UPA is very divisive in<br>
&gt; Ukraine<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; and it<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; runs along<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; linguistic and geopolitical<br>
&gt; &gt; divisions as<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; well. There<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; are<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; millions of Ukrainians who<br>
&gt; will<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; always regard<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; UPA as<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; heroes<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; in spite of everything, just<br>
&gt; because<br>
&gt; &gt; in<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Western<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Ukraine<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; every other family was<br>
&gt; associated<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; with them<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; in some<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; way or<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; suffered collective punishment<br>
&gt; for<br>
&gt; &gt; their<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; activities.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Yet on<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; the state level UPA is still<br>
&gt; not<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; recognized<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; as the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; WWII<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; participant. I am from central<br>
&gt; &gt; Ukraine and<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; have<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; nothing to<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; do with UPA but still consider<br>
&gt; them<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; heroes<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; just as the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Red<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Army vets, because millions of<br>
&gt; my<br>
&gt; &gt; compatriots<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; do so on<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; both<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; sides of the divide. There are<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; different<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; views on this<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; in<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; every family, people don&#39;t<br>
&gt; bring it<br>
&gt; &gt; up in<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; company.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; It is<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; EXTREMELY divisive and<br>
&gt; volatile<br>
&gt; &gt; topic,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; interference<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; of<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; outsiders in this brings it to<br>
&gt; the<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; whole new<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; level. I<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; only<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; hope Poland won&#39;t<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp; be playing the UPA card<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; as Russia has for so many<br>
&gt; years. It<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; will be<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; devastating for<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; both peoples.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Piotr<br>
&gt; Konieczny<br>
&gt; &gt; &lt;piokon@post.pl&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; From: Piotr Konieczny<br>
&gt; &lt;piokon@post.pl&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [WPM] HELP!!<br>
&gt; Radek<br>
&gt; &gt; ,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Piotrus, Tymek<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; and<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; others.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; To: &quot;Wikipedia<br>
&gt; statistics&quot;<br>
&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedomete=
r.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; Received: Monday, August<br>
&gt; 3,<br>
&gt; &gt; 2009, 6:42<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; AM<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; O. G. wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; But in<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; spite of that, for millions of<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Ukrainians<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; UPA<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; always will be heroes,<br>
&gt; because<br>
&gt; &gt; they<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; fought for<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; freedom<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; of their country.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; One men&#39;s<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp; terrorist is another<br>
&gt; men&#39;s hero,<br>
&gt; &gt; and<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; there<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; is no<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; denying that.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; This is also an attitude<br>
&gt; of<br>
&gt; &gt; many<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Lithuanian<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; editors,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; and<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; presumably a<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; sentiment shared more<br>
&gt; widely<br>
&gt; &gt; among the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; eastern<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; countries. I<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; can<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; understand and I cannot<br>
&gt; blame<br>
&gt; &gt; those who<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; after<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Soviet<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; repression saw<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; German Nazis as<br>
&gt; liberators.<br>
&gt; &gt; They<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; couldn&#39;t<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; know<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; what was<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; really going on.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; Still, one should be able<br>
&gt; to<br>
&gt; &gt; admit one<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; made a<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; mistake.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Just<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; as Poles<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; should (and in some<br>
&gt; instances,<br>
&gt; &gt; did)<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; apologize for<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; exceptional but<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; real massacres committed<br>
&gt; by AK<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; and<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; other Poles<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; (Jedwabne...), so should<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; those who threw their lot<br>
&gt; in<br>
&gt; &gt; with the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Nazis and<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; worked<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; with<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; them<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; apologize for all the<br>
&gt; suffering<br>
&gt; &gt; that<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; they<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; caused.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; Bottom line is that there<br>
&gt; is no<br>
&gt; &gt; white<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; and black,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; there<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; are<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; always shades<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; of gray (but shades that<br>
&gt; can<br>
&gt; &gt; be<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp; sometimes compared!), and<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; we have to<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; admit that many heroes<br>
&gt; were<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; also, at the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; same<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; time,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; criminals.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; PS I wouldn&#39;t be<br>
&gt; surprised<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; if<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Russia<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; were<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; clandestinely financing<br>
&gt; people<br>
&gt; &gt; in Poland<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; bringing<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; this<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; issue<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; over and over again. Just<br>
&gt; a<br>
&gt; &gt; guess...<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; Good point, again.<br>
&gt; Let&#39;s not<br>
&gt; &gt; loose the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; sight<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; of<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; the bigger<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; picture.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; --<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; Piotr Konieczny<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &quot;The problem about<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; Wikipedia is, that it just<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; works in<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; reality, not in<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; theory.&quot;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; Wikipedia statistics<br>
&gt; discussion<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; list<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer=
.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/c=
gi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/c=
gi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; __________________________________________________________________<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Get the name you&#39;ve always<br>
&gt; wanted<br>
&gt; &gt; @<a href=3D"http://ymail.com" target=3D"_blank">ymail.com</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; or<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; @<a href=3D"http://rocketmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">rocketmail.com</a>! Go to <a href=3D"http://ca.promos.yahoo.com=
/jacko/" target=3D"_blank">http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/jacko/</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Wikipedia statistics<br>
&gt; discussion<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; list<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net"=
>folks@wikipedometer.net</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bi=
n/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bi=
n/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; -----Inline Attachment<br>
&gt; Follows-----<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Wikipedia statistics<br>
&gt; discussion<br>
&gt; &gt; list<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net"=
>folks@wikipedometer.net</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bi=
n/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bi=
n/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; __________________________________________________________________<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Yahoo! Canada Toolbar:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; Search from anywhere on the web,<br>
&gt; and<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; bookmark your<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; favourite sites. Download it now<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com" target=
=3D"_blank">http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com</a>.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Wikipedia statistics discussion<br>
&gt; list<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folk=
s@wikipedometer.net</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mai=
lman/listinfo/folks" target=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mai=
lman/listinfo/folks</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; -----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Wikipedia statistics discussion<br>
&gt; list<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folk=
s@wikipedometer.net</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mai=
lman/listinfo/folks" target=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mai=
lman/listinfo/folks</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;____________________________________________________=
______________<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; The new Internet Explorer(R) 8 -<br>
&gt; Faster,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; safer,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; easier.&nbsp; Optimized for Yahoo!<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Get it Now for Free! at <a href=3D"http://downloads=
.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/" target=3D"_blank">http://downloads.yahoo.c=
om/ca/internetexplorer/</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wi=
kipedometer.net</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman=
/listinfo/folks" target=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman=
/listinfo/folks</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wi=
kipedometer.net</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman=
/listinfo/folks" target=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman=
/listinfo/folks</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikiped=
ometer.net</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/list=
info/folks" target=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/list=
info/folks</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;________________________________________________________________=
__<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of<br>
&gt; &gt; Flickr!<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/gift/" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tp://www.flickr.com/gift/</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedomet=
er.net</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo=
/folks" target=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo=
/folks</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; &gt; Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br>
&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.ne=
t</a><br>
&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folk=
s" target=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folk=
s</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;________________________________________________________________=
__<br>
&gt; The new Internet Explorer&reg; 8 - Faster, safer, easier.<br>
&gt; &nbsp;Optimized for Yahoo! &nbsp;Get it Now for Free! at <a href=3D"ht=
tp://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/" target=3D"_blank">http://dow=
nloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a>=
<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a>=
<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a>=
<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a>=
<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;______________________________________________________=
____________<br>
</div></div>Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. G=
o to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at <a href=3D"http://ca.answers=
.yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank">http://ca.answers.yahoo.com</a><br>
<div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=
=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>

--0016e65879ae0dfa9f04704083ab--


--===============6261887692714820829==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

_______________________________________________
Wikipedia statistics discussion list
folks@wikipedometer.net
http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks

--===============6261887692714820829==--


