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Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 01:46:48 +0300
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From: Dorin Cheptea <dorin.cheptea@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview:  I apologize for numerous English mistakes. Also, I
	meant: *which I see as one of the reasons why USA, UK, etc do **not**
	react to these [Shanghai Group type] meetings* > In Civilization,
	there's the government type of Despotism (and in some > versions,
	Fundamentalism). It has considerable penalties on infrastructure >
	development, on tax revenues and on scientific advancement, but it has
	one > important advantage: military maintenance will be really cheap.
	(And in > case of Fundamentalism, temples and cathedrals will generate
	revenues > instead of losing money.) > [...] 
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Subject: Re: [WPM] Russia and Iran
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	Content preview:  I apologize for numerous English mistakes. Also, I
	meant: *which I see as one of the reasons why USA, UK, etc do **not**
	react to these [Shanghai Group type] meetings* > In Civilization,
	there's the government type of Despotism (and in some > versions,
	Fundamentalism). It has considerable penalties on infrastructure >
	development, on tax revenues and on scientific advancement, but it has
	one > important advantage: military maintenance will be really cheap.
	(And in > case of Fundamentalism, temples and cathedrals will generate
	revenues > instead of losing money.) > [...] 
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I apologize for numerous English mistakes. Also, I meant:

*which I see as one of the reasons why USA, UK, etc do **not** react to
these [Shanghai Group type] meetings*


> In Civilization, there's the government type of Despotism (and in some
> versions, Fundamentalism).  It has considerable penalties on infrastructure
> development, on tax revenues and on scientific advancement, but it has one
> important advantage: military maintenance will be really cheap.  (And in
> case of Fundamentalism, temples and cathedrals will generate revenues
> instead of losing money.)
>

I am claiming that Iran is not as much a teocracy nowadays as it is a system
of ruling people for whom Ahmadinejad is convenient. Using your terminology,
Iran is a despotism.


> Lingering under Despotism for too long is never useful; it leads to your
> neighbours' science and economies outgrow yours, and then you'll be easy to
> invade because horses are no match to catapults or cannons.
>

Correct if you are China or Russia. But if you are a middle-level country
like Iran, others would outgrow you anyway. Despotism tends to survive more
if the country is smaller and can be easier isolated (Communist Albania for
example)


> Soviet Union did exactly that: they set up a totalitarian system and then,
> instead of using it for its advantages (mind you, advantages to the ruling
> clique rather than its people), let it linger while its science and economy
> stagnated.  Eventually, by 1980 the very idea of World Revolution through
> Soviet Tanks had become ridiculous.
>

Not sure I follow you here. First, I am sure the Soviet elite enjoyed as
many advantages as really possible. Second, the science in the former USSR
did not linger. True, it was for another reason: best people, prevented to
take other careers went into science. Also, how much could you watch TV or
read/write on internet in say 1970s? The equivalent of all that effort and
time we spend today went then into... Third, planned economy will always be
much worse that capitalism, even than savage capitalism. Those that starve
to death in planned economy did not make such headline news as those that do
in savage capitalism, but they were more numerous, much more... millions
compared to dozens.


> Which is more, most of this new breed of leaders (Putin, Medvedev, Voronin,
>> Chavez, Ahmadinejad, etc) enjoy mockering their political enemies.
>>
>
> The court jester's office is an important one, but it's incompatible with
> the king's office.
>

When the jester becomes king, you have circus. This is true about all these
people.

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<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; "><div=
>I apologize for numerous English mistakes. Also, I meant:</div><div><br></=
div><i>which I see as one of the reasons why USA, UK, etc do </i><b><i>not<=
/i></b><i> react to these [Shanghai Group type] meetings</i></span><br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div><br>In Civilization, there&#39;s the government type =
of Despotism (and in some versions, Fundamentalism).=A0 It has considerable=
 penalties on infrastructure development, on tax revenues and on scientific=
 advancement, but it has one important advantage: military maintenance will=
 be really cheap.=A0 (And in case of Fundamentalism, temples and cathedrals=
 will generate revenues instead of losing money.)<br>

</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I am claiming that Iran is not=
 as much a teocracy nowadays as it is a system of ruling people for whom Ah=
madinejad is convenient. Using your terminology, Iran is a despotism.=A0</d=
iv>
<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><d=
iv>Lingering under Despotism for too long is never useful; it leads to your=
 neighbours&#39; science and economies outgrow yours, and then you&#39;ll b=
e easy to invade because horses are no match to catapults or cannons.</div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Correct if you are China or Russia. =
But if you are a middle-level country like Iran, others would outgrow you a=
nyway. Despotism tends to survive more if the country is smaller and can be=
 easier isolated (Communist Albania for example)</div>
<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><d=
iv>Soviet Union did exactly that: they set up a totalitarian system and the=
n, instead of using it for its advantages (mind you, advantages to the ruli=
ng clique rather than its people), let it linger while its science and econ=
omy stagnated.=A0 Eventually, by 1980 the very idea of World Revolution thr=
ough Soviet Tanks had become ridiculous.</div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Not sure I follow you here. First, I=
 am sure the Soviet elite enjoyed as many advantages as really possible. Se=
cond, the science in the former USSR did not linger. True, it was for anoth=
er reason: best people, prevented to take other careers went into science. =
Also, how much could you watch TV or read/write on internet in say 1970s? T=
he equivalent of all that effort and time we spend today went then into... =
Third, planned economy will always be much worse that capitalism, even than=
 savage capitalism. Those that starve to death in planned economy did not m=
ake such headline news as those that do in savage capitalism, but they were=
 more numerous, much more... millions compared to dozens.</div>
<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><d=
iv class=3D"im"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left:1px =
solid rgb(204, 204, 204);margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex">
<div>Which is more, most of this new breed of leaders (Putin, Medvedev, Vor=
onin, Chavez, Ahmadinejad, etc) enjoy mockering their political enemies.</d=
iv>
</blockquote></div><div><br>The court jester&#39;s office is an important o=
ne, but it&#39;s incompatible with the king&#39;s office.<br></div></div></=
blockquote><div><br></div><div>When the jester becomes king, you have circu=
s. This is true about all these people.=A0</div>
</div><br>

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