X-From_: folks-bounces@wikipedometer.net Wed Jul 15 00:53:00 2009
Return-Path: <folks-bounces@wikipedometer.net>
Message-ID: <4A5D0C41.8040406@post.pl>
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 18:52:49 -0400
From: Piotr Konieczny <piokon@post.pl>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
	rv:1.8.1.21) Gecko/20090303 MultiZilla/1.8.3.4e SeaMonkey/1.1.15
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
References: <bc2.4a4db562.378d5671@aol.com>	<c3b2b3db0907140744q1f74b14cv7b6b84b296b3f6e8@mail.gmail.com>	<25890ca0907140810l66813775v1c11eabab9dcb7e2@mail.gmail.com>	<6fb557d70907141204r1b7d3849nd6d7e9bd5438434a@mail.gmail.com>	<929ed1ec0907141259q4556b7e2o2bd1fb18068e178f@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3b2b3db0907141325k3965a4d7o3dbe1bd7513aeffe@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <c3b2b3db0907141325k3965a4d7o3dbe1bd7513aeffe@mail.gmail.com>
X-Spam_score: -2.4
X-Spam_score_int: -23
X-Spam_bar: --
X-Spam_report: Spam detection software,
	running on the system "pakkun.mirky.net", has
	identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message
	has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or
	label similar future email.  If you have any questions, see
	the administrator of that system for details.
	Content preview:  Andrei Dombay wrote: > That is how it works. KGB
	fabricated false numbers of prisoners in Gulag > by providing their
	"original documents" to researchers like Zemskov. > Now, these numbers
	are cited everywhere, including "Gulag" by Applebaum > who is a honest
	Western resarcher. "Siebert" promoted these KGB numbers > relentlessly
	in WP. > > Now it does not matter that >
	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Antonov-Ovseenko and >
	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olga_Shatunovskaya gave completely >
	different and much greater numbers based on earlier documents from the
	>
	same CPSU/KGB archives. The official report by Shatunovskaya has been >
	destroyed, as far as I remember. The only remaining catch is this: the >
	number of prisoners who arrived to Gulag per year was close to a
	million
	> (per official/Applebaum sources if I am not mistaken), but the total >
	number of prisoners in Gulag was also ... 1-2 million per KGB data. It
	>
	is hard to imagine that the entire population of Gulag was renewed >
	during every 1-2 years (although Applebaum seems to belive that). [...]
	Content analysis details:   (-2.4 points, 5.0 required)
	pts rule name              description
	---- ----------------------
	--------------------------------------------------
	0.1 FORGED_RCVD_HELO       Received: contains a forged HELO
	-2.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1%
	[score: 0.0000]
	0.1 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7-deb (2006-10-05) on 
	pakkun.mirky.net
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,
	FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=unavailable version=3.1.7-deb
Subject: Re: [WPM] question
X-BeenThere: folks@wikipedometer.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
List-Id: Wikipedia statistics <folks.wikipedometer.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks>,
	<mailto:folks-request@wikipedometer.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Post: <mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net>
List-Help: <mailto:folks-request@wikipedometer.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks>,
	<mailto:folks-request@wikipedometer.net?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: folks-bounces@wikipedometer.net
Errors-To: folks-bounces@wikipedometer.net
X-Spam_score: -2.4
X-Spam_score_int: -23
X-Spam_bar: --
X-Spam_report: Spam detection software, running on the system "pakkun.mirky.net", has
	identified this incoming email as possible spam.  The original message
	has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label
	similar future email.  If you have any questions, see
	the administrator of that system for details.
	Content preview:  Andrei Dombay wrote: > That is how it works. KGB
	fabricated false numbers of prisoners in Gulag > by providing their
	"original documents" to researchers like Zemskov. > Now, these numbers
	are cited everywhere, including "Gulag" by Applebaum > who is a honest
	Western resarcher. "Siebert" promoted these KGB numbers > relentlessly
	in WP. > > Now it does not matter that >
	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Antonov-Ovseenko and >
	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olga_Shatunovskaya gave completely >
	different and much greater numbers based on earlier documents from the >
	same CPSU/KGB archives. The official report by Shatunovskaya has been >
	destroyed, as far as I remember. The only remaining catch is this: the >
	number of prisoners who arrived to Gulag per year was close to a million
	> (per official/Applebaum sources if I am not mistaken), but the total >
	number of prisoners in Gulag was also ... 1-2 million per KGB data. It >
	is hard to imagine that the entire population of Gulag was renewed >
	during every 1-2 years (although Applebaum seems to belive that). [...] 
	Content analysis details:   (-2.4 points, 5.0 required)
	pts rule name              description
	---- ---------------------- --------------------------------------------------
	0.1 FORGED_RCVD_HELO       Received: contains a forged HELO
	-2.6 BAYES_00               BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1%
	[score: 0.0000]
	0.1 AWL                    AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list

Andrei Dombay wrote:
> That is how it works. KGB fabricated false numbers of prisoners in Gulag 
> by providing their "original documents" to researchers like Zemskov. 
> Now, these numbers are cited everywhere, including "Gulag" by Applebaum 
> who is a honest Western resarcher. "Siebert" promoted these KGB numbers 
> relentlessly in WP.
> 
>  Now it does not matter that 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Antonov-Ovseenko and 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olga_Shatunovskaya gave completely 
> different and much greater numbers based on earlier documents from the 
> same CPSU/KGB archives. The official report by Shatunovskaya has been 
> destroyed, as far as I remember.  The only remaining catch is this: the 
> number of prisoners who arrived to Gulag per year was close to a million 
> (per official/Applebaum sources if I am not mistaken), but the total 
> number of prisoners in Gulag was also ... 1-2 million per KGB data.  It 
> is hard to imagine that the entire population of Gulag was renewed 
> during every 1-2 years (although Applebaum seems to belive that).

I'd think this should be clearly discussed somewhere on Wikipedia?


-- 
Piotr Konieczny

"The problem about Wikipedia is, that it just works in reality, not in 
theory."

_______________________________________________
Wikipedia statistics discussion list
folks@wikipedometer.net
http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks

