X-From_: folks-bounces@wikipedometer.net Sun Jun 14 00:56:17 2009
Return-Path: <folks-bounces@wikipedometer.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <929ed1ec0906131243s263abe81ia0134d6c8658e4e3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cd9.532840bd.37653144@aol.com>
	<929ed1ec0906131243s263abe81ia0134d6c8658e4e3@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 18:56:08 -0400
Message-ID: <c3b2b3db0906131556i7ac2e766u582039f6d7b5d3ac@mail.gmail.com>
From: Andrei Dombay <wikibiophys@gmail.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
X-Spam_score: -0.1
X-Spam_score_int: 0
X-Spam_bar: /
X-Spam_report: Spam detection software,
	running on the system "pakkun.mirky.net", has
	identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message
	has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or
	label similar future email.  If you have any questions, see
	the administrator of that system for details.
	Content preview:  Relax. Look at last article edited by Sandstein:
	http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rasputin%27s_penis&diff=296118470&oldid=295710584
	On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Digwuren <digwuren@gmail.com> wrote:
	[...] Content analysis details:   (-0.1 points, 5.0 required)
	pts rule name              description
	---- ----------------------
	--------------------------------------------------
	-2.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1%
	[score: 0.0000]
	0.5 HTML_40_50             BODY: Message is 40% to 50% HTML
	0.0 HTML_MESSAGE           BODY: HTML included in message
	1.7 DNS_FROM_RFC_POST      RBL: Envelope sender in
	postmaster.rfc-ignorant.org
	0.0 ADVANCE_FEE_1 Appears to be advance fee fraud (Nigerian 419)
	0.3 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7-deb (2006-10-05) on 
	pakkun.mirky.net
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL,BAYES_00,
	DNS_FROM_RFC_POST,HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no 
	version=3.1.7-deb
Subject: Re: [WPM] Sandstein is done; Shotlandiya sanctioned
X-BeenThere: folks@wikipedometer.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
List-Id: Wikipedia statistics <folks.wikipedometer.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks>,
	<mailto:folks-request@wikipedometer.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Post: <mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net>
List-Help: <mailto:folks-request@wikipedometer.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks>,
	<mailto:folks-request@wikipedometer.net?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5961135810060224721=="
Mime-version: 1.0
Sender: folks-bounces@wikipedometer.net
Errors-To: folks-bounces@wikipedometer.net
X-Spam_score: -0.1
X-Spam_score_int: 0
X-Spam_bar: /
X-Spam_report: Spam detection software, running on the system "pakkun.mirky.net", has
	identified this incoming email as possible spam.  The original message
	has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label
	similar future email.  If you have any questions, see
	the administrator of that system for details.
	Content preview:  Relax. Look at last article edited by Sandstein:
	http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rasputin%27s_penis&diff=296118470&oldid=295710584
	On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Digwuren <digwuren@gmail.com> wrote:
	[...] 
	Content analysis details:   (-0.1 points, 5.0 required)
	pts rule name              description
	---- ---------------------- --------------------------------------------------
	-2.6 BAYES_00               BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1%
	[score: 0.0000]
	0.5 HTML_40_50             BODY: Message is 40% to 50% HTML
	0.0 HTML_MESSAGE           BODY: HTML included in message
	1.7 DNS_FROM_RFC_POST      RBL: Envelope sender in
	postmaster.rfc-ignorant.org
	0.0 ADVANCE_FEE_1          Appears to be advance fee fraud (Nigerian 419)
	0.2 AWL                    AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list

--===============5961135810060224721==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d59e1f116d90046c42bb14

--0016e6d59e1f116d90046c42bb14
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Relax. Look at last article edited by Sandstein:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rasputin%27s_penis&diff=296118470&oldid=295710584


On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Digwuren <digwuren@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 19:43, <PetersJV@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Appeal
>>
>>
>> Still, I think S. is wrong. A proper warning must be given. Period.
>>
>> In a justice sense; in a due process sense; you're right.  There is no
> doubt about it.  But this is not Wikipedia works, and there's very little
> that we can do about it.
>
> Peters responded:
>
>> This begs the question, is this an opportunity for one of us to say we
>> agree with the ban but support the rules and therefore support the appeal?
>> This might go a long way to making us look like we're not the ones with an
>> axe to grind.
>>
>> No.  There are three ways this meme can get thrown in, and none of them is
> advantageous.
>
> 1. If Shotlandiya would raise this issue, he would be accused of
> wikilawyering.  As we know, they hate lawyers on wiki.
>
> 2. If we were to raise this issue, since due process is not honoured on
> Wikipedia, nobody would accept that this is an issue of principle; it would
> be interpreted as an act of mercy.  Given the context, not productive.
>
> 3. If an outsider were to raise this issue, there would be
> administrative-level dramu.  I'd guess some 66% chance that it will fickle
> down, and some 33% chance that the Cartel will successfully seize the chance
> to escalate it into a question of Sandstein's desysopping.  It is unlikely
> that Sandstein will be desysopped, but the process will be a new tornado
> arbcom, and tornados are unpredictable.
>
> If your conscience demands it, I guess the least harmful way would be to
> write a private mail to Sandstein, and in it repeatedly explain that it is
> about due process, and definitely not about criticism of Sandstein.
>  Especially that you will not raise the issue in any public venue.  Keep in
> mind that Sandstein can probably understand the situation in private, but if
> he were to actually revert his decision, a lot of unnecessary extra dramu
> would still be generated.  At most, Sandstein might do warning more
> diligently in the future.
>
> In pragmatic sense, it might perhaps be useful to note that Shotlandiya is
> neither a particularly high-quality nor a high-quantity contributor, and the
> little contributions that he has made that are actually useful are outside
> Estonia/Russia topics.
>
> --
> Andres Soolo
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia statistics discussion list
> folks@wikipedometer.net
> http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks
>
>

--0016e6d59e1f116d90046c42bb14
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Relax. Look at last article edited by Sandstein:<br>=A0<br><a href=3D"http:=
//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=3DRasputin%27s_penis&amp;diff=3D296118=
470&amp;oldid=3D295710584">http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=3DRasp=
utin%27s_penis&amp;diff=3D296118470&amp;oldid=3D295710584</a><br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><br>On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Digwure=
n <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:digwuren@gmail.com">digwuren@gmai=
l.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"b=
order-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; paddin=
g-left: 1ex;">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"im">On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 19:43,=
  <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:PetersJV@aol.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">PetersJV@aol.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt=
 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">





<div style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial;"><f=
ont color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><div>
<div>
<div><a title=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Request=
s/Enforcement#Appeal" href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitr=
ation/Requests/Enforcement#Appeal" target=3D"_blank">http://en.wikipedia.or=
g/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Appeal</a><br>

</div><blockquote style=3D"padding-left: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><font styl=
e=3D"background-color: transparent;" color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial" size=
=3D"2"><br>Still,=20
  I think S. is wrong. A proper warning must be given. Period.</font></bloc=
kquote></div></div></font></div></blockquote></div><div>In a justice sense;=
 in a due process sense; you&#39;re right. =A0There is no doubt about it. =
=A0But this is not Wikipedia works, and there&#39;s very little that we can=
 do about it.<br>

</div><div><br></div><div>Peters responded:</div><div class=3D"im"><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204=
); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial;">
<font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><div>
<div><blockquote style=3D"padding-left: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">This begs t=
he question, is this an opportunity for one of us to say we=20
agree with the ban but support the rules and therefore support the appeal? =
This=20
might go a long way to making us look like we&#39;re not the ones with an a=
xe to=20
grind.</blockquote></div></div></font></div></blockquote></div><div>No. =A0=
There are three ways this meme can get thrown in, and none of them is advan=
tageous.</div><div><br></div><div>1. If Shotlandiya would raise this issue,=
 he would be accused of wikilawyering. =A0As we know, they hate lawyers on =
wiki.<br>

</div><div><br></div><div>2. If we were to raise this issue, since due proc=
ess is not honoured on Wikipedia, nobody would accept that this is an issue=
 of principle; it would be interpreted as an act of mercy. =A0Given the con=
text, not productive.</div>

<div><br></div><div>3. If an outsider were to raise this issue, there would=
 be administrative-level dramu. =A0I&#39;d guess some 66% chance that it wi=
ll fickle down, and some 33% chance that the Cartel will successfully seize=
 the chance to escalate it into a question of Sandstein&#39;s desysopping. =
=A0It is unlikely that Sandstein will be desysopped, but the process will b=
e a new tornado arbcom, and tornados are unpredictable.</div>

<div><br></div><div>If your conscience demands it, I guess the least harmfu=
l way would be to write a private mail to Sandstein, and in it repeatedly e=
xplain that it is about due process, and definitely not about criticism of =
Sandstein. =A0Especially that you will not raise the issue in any public ve=
nue. =A0Keep in mind that Sandstein can probably understand the situation i=
n private, but if he were to actually revert his decision, a lot of unneces=
sary extra dramu would still be generated. =A0At most, Sandstein might do w=
arning more diligently in the future.</div>

<div><br></div><div>In pragmatic sense, it might perhaps be useful to note =
that Shotlandiya is neither a particularly high-quality nor a high-quantity=
 contributor, and the little contributions that he has made that are actual=
ly useful are outside Estonia/Russia topics.</div>

<div><br></div></div><font color=3D"#888888">-- <br>Andres Soolo<br>
</font><br>_______________________________________________<br>
Wikipedia statistics discussion list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks" target=
=3D"_blank">http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br>

--0016e6d59e1f116d90046c42bb14--


--===============5961135810060224721==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

_______________________________________________
Wikipedia statistics discussion list
folks@wikipedometer.net
http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/folks

--===============5961135810060224721==--


