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Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 06:57:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>
To: Wikipedia statistics <folks@wikipedometer.net>
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	Content preview: What choice did we have back in 1939? Do you think
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	Beck did the right thing allying Poland with Britain and France? Tymek
	--- On Sat, 8/22/09, Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com> wrote: From:
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	Beck did the right thing allying Poland with Britain and France? Tymek
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What choice did we have back in 1939? Do you think Jozef Beck did the right=
 thing allying Poland with Britain and France?
=A0
Tymek
=A0

--- On Sat, 8/22/09, Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com> wrote:


From: Molobo Molobo <molobus@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [WPM] Siemaszo/Kresowiacy/Putin/Russian manipulation
To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
Date: Saturday, August 22, 2009, 8:37 AM


The German nationalist identity is based on the idea of Drang nach Osten an=
d inferiority of Slavs and Balts. Do not delude yourself-any alliance with =
German nationalists means walking willingly into gas furnace or into cattle=
 wagons.


2009/8/22 piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com>






Digwuren, and this is what I mean. Poland should have ceded Gdansk to Germa=
ny, as this city was no more needed by the Poles. We had Gdynia. Of course =
the war would have began sooner or later, but some things would have been d=
ifferent. Surely, these are speculations. But the fact is that Gdansk was o=
f no use to Poland in 1939.=20
=A0
Now more and more Polish historians are speculating "what if .... Poland ha=
d allied with Hitler back then". Until March 1939, both countries actually =
were quite close, with frequent visits of top German diplomats in Warsaw. T=
hen the British began muddying the waters with guarantees they never wanted=
 to keep, and Warsaw changed the course. Again, these are speculations, Hit=
ler never kept his promises, but so did Britain and France, not to mention =
Stalin of course.
=A0
After all, Poland, Estonia and Latvia lost too much in the war, even though=
 Poland was nominally on the victorious side.=20
=A0
Tymek

--- On Sat, 8/22/09, Digwuren <digwuren@gmail.com> wrote:


From: Digwuren <digwuren@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [WPM] Siemaszo/Kresowiacy/Putin/Russian manipulation
To: "Wikipedia statistics" <folks@wikipedometer.net>
Date: Saturday, August 22, 2009, 2:22 AM






On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 04:34, piotr micula <basiaipiotr@yahoo.com> wrote:






It is blind stubborness of Polish elite in the 1930s that was one of the re=
asons of WW2, and we have to admit it. After construction of Gdynia, Poland=
 did not need Gdansk any more. It was all about "honor" as Jozef Beck said.=
 We should have allowed Gdansk to become part of Germany, as the city's pop=
ulation wished, and then wait how the events would turn out.


It would not have satisfied Hitler nor discouraged Stalin. =A0Very unlikely=
 to have averted WWII; at most, it could have affected some details.


--=A0Andres Soolo


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<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><DIV>What choice did we have back in 1939? Do=
 you think Jozef Beck did the right thing allying Poland with Britain and F=
rance?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Tymek</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><BR>--- On <B>Sat, 8/22/09, Molobo Molobo <I>&lt;molobus@gmail.com&gt;=
</I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid"><BR>From: Molobo Molobo &lt;molobus@gmail.com&gt;<BR>=
Subject: Re: [WPM] Siemaszo/Kresowiacy/Putin/Russian manipulation<BR>To: "W=
ikipedia statistics" &lt;folks@wikipedometer.net&gt;<BR>Date: Saturday, Aug=
ust 22, 2009, 8:37 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=3Dyiv339579225>The German nationalist identity is based on the idea=
 of Drang nach Osten and inferiority of Slavs and Balts. Do not delude your=
self-any alliance with German nationalists means walking willingly into gas=
 furnace or into cattle wagons.<BR><BR>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>2009/8/22 piotr micula <SPAN dir=3Dltr>&lt;<A href=
=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dbasiaipiotr@yahoo.com" t=
arget=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:basiaipiotr@yahoo.com">basi=
aipiotr@yahoo.com</A>&gt;</SPAN><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt=
 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: inherit; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-stretch:=
 inherit" vAlign=3Dtop>
<DIV>Digwuren, and this is what I mean. Poland should have ceded Gdansk to =
Germany, as this city was no more needed by the Poles. We had Gdynia. Of co=
urse the war would have began sooner or later, but some things would have b=
een different. Surely, these are speculations. But the fact is that Gdansk =
was of no use to Poland in 1939. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Now more and more Polish historians are speculating "what if .... Pola=
nd had allied with Hitler back then". Until March 1939, both countries actu=
ally were quite close, with frequent visits of top German diplomats in Wars=
aw. Then the British began muddying the waters with guarantees they never w=
anted to keep, and Warsaw changed the course. Again, these are speculations=
, Hitler never kept his promises, but so did Britain and France, not to men=
tion Stalin of course.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>After all, Poland, Estonia and Latvia lost too much in the war, even t=
hough Poland was nominally on the victorious side. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Tymek<BR><BR>--- On <B>Sat, 8/22/09, Digwuren <I>&lt;<A href=3D"http:/=
/us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddigwuren@gmail.com" target=3D_blan=
k rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:digwuren@gmail.com">digwuren@gmail.com</=
A>&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid"><BR>From: Digwuren &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mai=
l.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddigwuren@gmail.com" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofol=
low ymailto=3D"mailto:digwuren@gmail.com">digwuren@gmail.com</A>&gt;
<DIV class=3Dim><BR>Subject: Re: [WPM] Siemaszo/Kresowiacy/Putin/Russian ma=
nipulation<BR>To: "Wikipedia statistics" &lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mai=
l.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" target=3D_blank rel=3D=
nofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:folks@wikipedometer.net">folks@wikipedometer.net=
</A>&gt;<BR></DIV>Date: Saturday, August 22, 2009, 2:22 AM
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3Dh5><BR><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 04:34, piotr micula <SPAN =
dir=3Dltr>&lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dbas=
iaipiotr@yahoo.com" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>basiaipiotr@yahoo.com</A=
>&gt;</SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px=
 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=3Dtop>
<DIV>It is blind stubborness of Polish elite in the 1930s that was one of t=
he reasons of WW2, and we have to admit it. After construction of Gdynia, P=
oland did not need Gdansk any more. It was all about "honor" as Jozef Beck =
said. We should have allowed Gdansk to become part of Germany, as the city'=
s population wished, and then wait how the events would turn out.</DIV></TD=
></TR></TBODY></TABLE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>It would not have satisfied Hitler nor discouraged Stalin. &nbsp;Very =
unlikely to have averted WWII; at most, it could have affected some details=
.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>--&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>Andres Soolo<BR></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3Dim>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<BR><BR>
<DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>Wikipedia statistic=
s discussion list<BR><A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?t=
o=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>folks@wikipedom=
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o/folks" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://wikipedometer.net/cgi-bin/ma=
ilman/listinfo/folks</A><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TA=
BLE><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Wikipedia st=
atistics discussion list<BR><A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yahoo.com/mc/co=
mpose?to=3Dfolks@wikipedometer.net" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=
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--<BR><BR>
<DIV class=3DplainMail>_______________________________________________<BR>W=
ikipedia statistics discussion list<BR><A href=3D"http://us.mc328.mail.yaho=
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