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### Viewing cable 05THEHAGUE3381, READOUT OF DAS BRYZA'S DISCUSSIONS WITH THE DUTCH

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Reference ID | Created | Released | Classification | Origin
--- | --- | --- | --- | ---
05THEHAGUE3381 | 2005-12-22 07:07 | 2011-01-20 21:09 | CONFIDENTIAL | Embassy The Hague

`

    VZCZCXRO3410
    OO RUEHFL RUEHKW RUEHLA RUEHROV RUEHSR
    DE RUEHTC #3381/01 3560741
    ZNY CCCCC ZZH
    O 220741Z DEC 05
    FM AMEMBASSY THE HAGUE
    TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC IMMEDIATE 4423
    INFO RUEHZL/EUROPEAN POLITICAL COLLECTIVE PRIORITY
    RUEHBS/USEU BRUSSELS PRIORITY 0222

` `

    C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 02 THE HAGUE 003381

    SIPDIS

    SIPDIS

    E.O. 12958: DECL: 12/22/2015
    TAGS: PREL PHUM PGOV SOCI KISL NL
    SUBJECT: READOUT OF DAS BRYZA'S DISCUSSIONS WITH THE DUTCH
    ON MUSLIM INTEGRATION AND RADICALIZATION

    REF: A. THE HAGUE 2599
    ¶B. THE HAGUE 2651
    ¶C. THE HAGUE 3008
    ¶D. THE HAGUE 3064

    Classified By: Charge D'Affaires Chat Blakeman,
    reasons 1.4(b) and (d)

    ¶1. (C) SUMMARY. Deputy Assistant Secretary Matthew J. Bryza's
    recent visit to The Hague featured lively discussion on
    integration and counter-radicalization issues currently the
    focus of intense debate in the Netherlands. Counterparts from
    Dutch Ministries and Dutch Parliament described the
    antecedents to the pervasive ethnic tension in the
    Netherlands and defined challenges facing integration of the
    Muslim community into traditional Dutch society. Dutch
    interlocutors shared DAS Bryza's conviction that the
    Netherlands must take a leading role in both integrating
    Dutch Muslim community members into mainstream Dutch society,
    while satisfying second- and third-generation immigrants'
    thirst for connection with their families' Islamic cultures.
    Though some interlocutors conveyed skepticism that the Muslim
    community could integrate into the European model of society,
    all counterparts conveyed deep interest in continued dialogue
    with the United States in order to fight radicalization. END
    SUMMARY.

    ¶2. (C) Deputy Assistant Secretary Matthew Bryza discussed
    integration and radicalization of Muslim communities in the
    Netherlands with Dutch counterparts on December 13. A
    roundtable dialogue with interlocutors from the Ministries of
    Foreign Affairs, Internal Affairs, and Justice and separate
    meetings with Dutch Parliamentarians yielded insight into the
    broad ongoing debate in the Netherlands surrounding efforts
    in Dutch public and private sectors to counter extremism and
    foster integration of Dutch Muslim communities.

    THE DUTCH BEGIN TO EXAMINE WHAT'S UNDER THE CARPET
    --------------------------------------------- -------

    ¶3. (C) Recent events have given impetus to Dutch interest in
    integration and radicalization issues. Peter Knoppe (Dutch
    National Counter-Terrorism Board) said that public discussion
    on the topics became increasingly polemical after the 2002
    assassination of Pim Fortuyn, a Dutch politician known for
    his anti-immigration position, and quite harsh after the
    murder last December of Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh by a
    Muslim extremist. Saskia Tempelman (Policy Officer,
    Integration Department, Ministry of Justice) explained that,
    as the Dutch scrutinize the cultural progenitors of the
    current imbroglio, they begin to realize that the problem is
    exacerbated by ignorance -- a majority of native Dutch
    think all immigrants to the Netherlands are Muslim when in
    fact only 54% are -- and denial. According to Tempelman, a
    lot of things (about ethnic tension in the Netherlands) have
    been swept under the carpet. Knoppe pointed to a lack of
    opportunities for second- and third-generation Dutch Muslims
    and the increase in access to extremist Muslim messages via
    the internet as the primary origins of ethnic tension
    confronting contemporary Dutch society.

    ¶4. (C) Dutch counterparts expressed grave concerns that Dutch
    Muslim communities are radicalizing at a faster rate than in
    Turkey or Morocco. Knoppe said the Government of Morocco has
    expressed concern to the GONL that Dutch Moroccan communities
    are an extremist threat in Morocco. As discrimination
    against Muslims in the Netherlands intensifies, the backlash
    in the Muslim community correspondingly increases; Coskun
    Coruz (Parliamentarian, Christian Democrats) lamented that
    even secular communities of Dutch Muslims are now showing
    signs of susceptibility to the lure of radicalization.
    Fadime Orgu (Parliamentarian, Social Conservatives) pointed
    to what she saw as the hypocrisy of the GONL in
    promulgating separation of church and state on the one hand
    and subsidizing religious television and radio programming on
    the other, and argued that such religious programming
    exacerbated tensions between the native Dutch and Dutch
    Muslim communities.

    THE WAY FORWARD: INTEGRATING DUTCH MUSLIM LEADERSHIP
    --------------------------------------------- -------

    ¶5. (C) Though heightened focus has fostered greater Dutch
    understanding of the integration and radicalization
    challenges they face, Dutch policy to address the problems is
    nascent. Tempelman acknowledged that that the murder of van
    Gogh sped up the process leading to the incipience of Dutch
    domestic integration and radicalization policies. Olthof
    explained that the Dutch have not yet coordinated
    counter-radicalization and recruitment strategies with the
    governments of Morocco or Egypt.
    THE HAGUE 00003381 002 OF 002

    ¶6. (C) Dutch interlocutors shared DAS Bryza's assessment that
    the Netherlands faces a dual challenge of integrating the
    Dutch Muslim community into mainstream society, while
    satisfying second- and third-generation immigrants' thirst
    for connection with their families' Islamic cultures.
    Maintaining this balance is critical to countering both the
    indignation of discrimination and the spiritual alienation
    that allow radical messages espoused by internet imams to
    take root in Dutch Muslim youth. Counterparts agreed that an
    education program for Dutch Imams is essential to this
    strategy. Coruz indicated that the CMO, the umbrella
    organization which claims to represent 80% of Dutch Muslims,
    recently signed a gentlemen's agreement with the GONL to
    institutionalize a pedagogic process for Muslim theology
    students in the Netherlands that would feature an
    introductory period of a few years of general religious
    training followed by a few more years of focused training in
    Islam, under the tutelage of moderate Muslim instructors.
    Dutch Muslims of Turkish descent, however, refused to sign
    the agreement. Coruz explained that the Turkish Government's
    Directorate of Religious Affairs (or Diyanet), which
    administers mosques and regulates the practice of Islam in
    Turkey, seeks to (and succeeds in) exerting political
    influence over the Turkish-Dutch community, encouraging
    Turkish-Dutch Muslims to retain cultural connections with
    Turkey. Coruz and Orgu underscored the importance to
    integration efforts of convincing the Turkish-Dutch community
    that Dutch concepts of freedom of religion do not impinge on
    the contemporary Turkish secularist ideology and urged the
    U.S. to assist Dutch integration efforts by encouraging the
    Diyanet to soften its efforts to exert political influence
    over Turkish-Dutch Muslims. DAS Bryza suggested that
    adapting the Turkish Diyanet's model of moderate Islam could
    be helpful to efforts to train moderate Dutch Imams. Though
    Orgu thought the idea had merit, Tempelman indicated that the
    proposal faces a number of obstacles. Tempelman said the
    Diyanet currently proscribes training of its Imams outside
    Turkey and underscored that the Dutch do not want foreign
    governments exercising control over Dutch minorities.

    IS THERE A PLACE FOR MUSLIMS AT THE DUTCH TABLE?
    --------------------------------------------- ---

    ¶7. (C) Some Dutch counterparts intimated that endeavors to
    integrate Muslims into traditional Dutch society may be
    futile: Henk Jan Ormel (Parliamentarian, Christian Democrats)
    -- the only native Dutch Parliamentarian with whom DAS
    Bryza spoke -- confided that he believed the prospect of
    Turkish EU membership was the foremost reason that the Dutch
    voted on October 3 against adopting the EU Constitution.
    Ormel asserted that the roots of Europe are in Christianity,
    not Islam, adding, European history has in fact been
    defined against Islam. Though Marnix Krop (Director General
    for European Cooperation, MFA) indicated that since the
    October 3 referendum a majority of Dutch have begun to favor
    Turkish membership in the EU, Ormel doubted that there had
    been any genuine change in the Dutch electorate's minds other
    than a cooling of tempers on the subject.

    ¶8. (C) DAS Bryza reacted warmly to Dutch solicitations for
    U.S. cooperation. He promised to share a paper he is
    currently writing after revising it pursuant to his
    consultations with Dutch interlocutors.
    ¶9. (U) DAS Bryza has cleared this cable.
    BLAKEMAN

`